What people do on their own time is no inteterst to me, that's why I didn't go there. The oldguy just doesn't like to be called a lowlife, lier, and any of Mr. Burgers other none productive adjectives.
O I'm sorry Mr. Burger, adjective is: a word belonging to one of the major form classes in any of numerious languages and typically serving as a modifier of a noun to denote a quality of a thing named.
"Anyone who uses a Bong as an icon and alias of nogvmnt has some issue anyway. "
The Bong is in the PCGS available icons, and I thought it would be fun to use as it is unique.
The ID "NoGvmnt" is actually short for a handle I used to use"NoGvmntCheese4U" which is a spinoff of Seinfelds soup nazis' "No Soup for you" line.
But leave it to a bunch of jeromes' buddies to twist it into something totally unwarranted.
Hey jerome, you won't have to post your worthless merchandise for sale here when you recieve your next delivery, all of your buddies claim that they would be happy to buy from you, so you can go through this thread, collect their profiles, and PM them with your next offer. They are all to happy to buy unsellable merchandise.
Oh, and jerome, if you don't like being called a liar, don't lie.
atcbob, define A-1 quality, if you mean resellable material free of defects, then yes, that is what I was expecting. If you mean Proof 70 material, then you are wrong. Yes I did state that I intended to resell the sets on Ebay, is that a crime? Is that not what the majority of the posters here do? What is the relevance of your statement?
Oh yeah atcbob, he sold 200 sets, which came in 100 boxes, so if he opened 1 box that leaves 99 boxes not 199, geez if you can't even keep that straight, who dresses you every morning.
I would have no problem either dealing with oldguy.
As stated, some people are not in the buisiness to make the most they can from a coin product. If you bought something for $32.00 and then sold it for $120.00, then that is a good deal on your half.
Then if you want to sell them for full retail of $180.00 or whatever, it WILL take you longer to sell the items.
Your attitude and demeanor calls bad light to you in this situation.
"who dresses you in the morning?", boy, that's from what, 3rd grade? You chose to bring this to this public forum. You then must accept what is said by others. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Marty just called my attention to this thread after I told him about my dealings with Jerry (oldguy) - I met him at his place in NY. I bought 50 '99 silver sets from him and opened 1 box at random - both sets were perfect. After reading this i opened another box and both were of similar quality. there is some incidental haze around the rim of one of the kennedys - nothing out of the ordinary. i just checked them against my set i bought directly from the mint in '99 - can't tell them apart.
the box they came in are absolutely not tampered with, and i've inspected it closely. Jerry was a great guy and very friendly. He didn't strike me as the type to mess with the sets and try resealing them. He also struck me as a highly sociable type who wouldn't particularly enjoy the tedium of listing hundreds of items on ebay and writing e-mails back and forth. I also brought a handful of sets with us into the bar as we talked and he obviously had no qualms about me opening as many sets as i liked.
Very nice guy and smooth transaction - i have no reason to believe he was pawning what he believed to be garbage.
Here's the worst of the 4 sets i sampled. maybe 3 coins had a bit of haze around the rim. i've seen much worse on proof sets.
Mr Burger, I have never stopped trying to find a way to resovle this unforunate situation. env through all the words, good or bad. And by reading all the input, and comments from fellow Collector Universe members, and other area businessmen, I have come up with a proposal I want you and the community to review, and provide feed back.
With your investment, you intended to use e-bay to go forward with your plan. Let's take it step by step.
1. Investment-----------------$1,680.00 for 14 sets 2. sell 10 sets on e-bay-----$1,750.00 at $175.00 each 3. oldguy buys back 4 sets-$ 320.00 at $ 80.00 each, or you can sell for more. 4. due the math--------------$ 2,070.00 total return 5. Minus your investment-- $ 1,680.00 6. Equals-----------------------$ $ 390.00 Profit.
I truly feel I have done nothing wrong, but I do feel obligated to try to recitify the situation. As being a member of this community, we all need to help resolve problems within this community. I don't think this should have gone this far, but reality is reality, and we need to go on to other endeavors. I hope things can settle down, and everbody can get back to being helpful to other members. This cite gives all of us an opportunuty to show, and discuss what I believe is a passion, more than a investment tool, but when things get personal, that makes the fun and joy evaporate. Please consider my offer, and try to back off on the personal comments, and stay focused on resolution.
<<<With your investment, you intended to use e-bay to go forward with your plan. Let's take it step by step.
1. Investment-----------------$1,680.00 for 14 sets 2. sell 10 sets on e-bay-----$1,750.00 at $175.00 each 3. oldguy buys back 4 sets-$ 320.00 at $ 80.00 each, or you can sell for more. 4. due the math--------------$ 2,070.00 total return 5. Minus your investment-- $ 1,680.00 6. Equals-----------------------$ $ 390.00 Profit.>>>
Your nimbers are a little off Mr. Brown:
1. Investment---------$1,700.00 for 14 sets ($120.00 each + $20.00 postage) 2. Sell 10 sets on Ebay------$1,450.00 ($160.00 each minus Ebay fees) 3. oldguy buys back 2 sets---$240.00 (remember you stated that you would gladly write a check for the 2 sets in this thread? You never offered to buy back 4 sets at $80.00 each.) 4. Do the math----$1,690.00 5. Minus my investment---$1,700.00 6. Equals ----------$10.00 Loss The 2 remaining bad sets that you refuse to refund/replace, of the 4 defective sets , I intend to destroy so tht they cannot be used to cheat another unsuspecting potnetial buyer. I will be givintg both jbsteven and tonekiller evidence that I destroyed these sets at the convention.
I have mailed those 2 sets to you Mr. Brown, certified and with return receipt for the refund of $240.00.
Hey bong boy, Let's see these "defective sets" Why don't you show us all a picture of these sets so we can all relate to your problem. And don't give me that excuse you don't have a scanner or camera because darn here everyone can get a digital camera somehow these days. I challenge you to post pictures of these proof sets that are so bad that you intend to go to the extreme and destroy.
I don't see any replies to Baccaruda's post. This man drove all the way from Chicago to pick up 50 sets from me last week. It appears he is pleased with his investment, and does not consider me a liar, or a crook. Mr. Burger, didn't you ask other members to reply to your Thread on dealings with the oldguy?
I hope Baccaruda's reply demonstates my commitment on being honest, and not your interpretation of me to the community.
I'd already decided before reading Baccaruda's post that you did NOTHING wrong, but his word just carved that in stone. I'd suggest that, from this point forward, you simply ignore the antagonist. Continuing to respond to his ramblings serves no constructive purpose for you, or for this forum.
I do not know either the seller nor the buyer. That being said, this problem should never have been brought up on this forum. When you buy coins that have not been opened since they were produced at the mint, you are gambling with "YOUR" money and it is not anyones problem but yours. Most all of us at one time or another have bought proof/mint sets un-opened. It is a crap shoot. you are looking for gold and usually get something less.
Mr. Burger it is time for you to grow up and shut up!!!
OK, you guys want me to reply to baccarudas" post where he admits/confirms that he has opened 4 sets and found haze on 1 of them?
Here, read his post, then read his shall we say misrepresentations in his Ebay listing of the same sets below that (see if yu can catch all the lies):
<<Marty just called my attention to this thread after I told him about my dealings with Jerry (oldguy) - I met him at his place in NY. I bought 50 '99 silver sets from him and opened 1 box at random - both sets were perfect. After reading this i opened another box and both were of similar quality. there is some incidental haze around the rim of one of the kennedys - nothing out of the ordinary. i just checked them against my set i bought directly from the mint in '99 - can't tell them apart.
the box they came in are absolutely not tampered with, and i've inspected it closely. Jerry was a great guy and very friendly. He didn't strike me as the type to mess with the sets and try resealing them. He also struck me as a highly sociable type who wouldn't particularly enjoy the tedium of listing hundreds of items on ebay and writing e-mails back and forth. I also brought a handful of sets with us into the bar as we talked and he obviously had no qualms about me opening as many sets as i liked.
Very nice guy and smooth transaction - i have no reason to believe he was pawning what he believed to be garbage.
Here's the worst of the 4 sets i sampled. maybe 3 coins had a bit of haze around the rim. i've seen much worse on proof sets.>>>
<<<You are bidding on (2) unopened 1999 Silver Proof Sets as they came directly from the mint. They came packaged 2 sets to a box with the code “S90” on the packaging to identify them – note the picture. I opened 1 package to sample the wares and they were exactly as I expected – clean , nice and the expected ultra cameos as seen in the sample pictures below. The box you will receive will be UNOPENED. I've obviously never seen these sets before so I can't predict whether they'll be toned, hazed, cameod, or be blast white cameos like the one I sampled. Happy Bidding.>>>
UNsurprisingly, I don't see any refund/return policy in baccarudas' Ebay auction.
How can i possibly take a return on an item like this? i don't even know what's in those boxes for sure. a 1933 double eagle could be in one. someone could tell me that there was a rock in the package and i couldn't dispute it. From the 4 sets i've opened i'd say they have an excellent chance at a perfect quality set. after finding out about your experience i quickly added the part about tone, haze, or cameo before someone bid and i couldn't modify the listing. i can't change it now but on my next i will be clear that you cannot return an open package.
accepting a return on an "unopened" package would be tantamount to me standing at the counter at the gas station, scratching off lotto tickets and expecting a return on the non-winners.
<< <i>accepting a return on an "unopened" package would be tantamount to me standing at the counter at the gas station, scratching off lotto tickets and expecting a return on the non-winners. >>
This is exactly what NoGvmnt wants, and thinks he will get sympathy here. But hey, if we keep this going, we may get a record number of replies to a thread on this forum. It is definately a joke thread now.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
So let me see if I have this straight, someone bought mint sealed proof sets in UNOPENED sealed boxes and is now all upset because some of the sets had haze or spots or whatever?? If that is the case, the buyer has NO leg to stand on, is dragging the sellers name through the mud without just cause, and is an idiot and crybaby IMO.
I don't get over to the BST Forum much anymore. It's a shame when I do to see this sad state of affairs. But let me add my 2 cents worth.....
HISTORY:
Buyer buys "unopened" sets from the mint from seller at $120 per, even though they sell for far more elsewhere.
Buyer must immediately either figure: (a) he's dealing with a con artist with unbelieveable prices to lure in buyers (warning flag?), (b) an unknowledgeable seller who doesn't realize he'll be taking a loss (and the buyer making a tidy quick profit), or (c) a seller who bought low and is content to sell higher, albeit not the highest possible - - i.e. a decent return on his investment, as he figures.
Knowing and calculating the potential odds of any one of the above scenarios, buyer buys sight-unseen as described. Buyer then takes on the risk.
Seller makes the "mistake" not of opening a set (which is in his right to do), but of including it in the package when the sale notice said "unopened". I have to agree this sets him up for some complaint or right of exchange on that one.
However..... if the seller opened one & found it to be "milky", wouldn't it be a stupid move on his part to include it knowingly in the shipment to open him up for attack? Wouldn't someone out to scam someone make it a point to include NO evidence of his having opened any boxes or any potential knowledge of "milky" problems? From my viewing angle, this seems to smack more of bad judgement by the seller than fraud.
I have to agree with a majority of the responses here that it seems the buyer knew what he was doing buying these sets, and was looking to make a quick buck, and was willing to gamble on the nice price towards that end. It would have made much more sense for the buyer, if he were TRULY interested NOT in what grade they might break-out at, but in just making a quick profit, to ALSO sell these as "unopened" - - and let the NEXT buyer take his equal chance at them! SURELY, he must have known he would have reduced the sets' value by opening them, turning a potential profit into almost certain financial loss!
"I think the man doth protest too much!!"
I'm sorry, but based on all I've read back and forth on this topic, the Judge Wapner in me has to find in favor of the "defendant" here! Please empty the courtroom now and go back to your everyday lives!
This is getting absurd. Take your fight to someplace where someone cares. nogvmnt should have inspected the sets and if unopened its a mint problem, oldguy was certainly unaware of the problem and sold sets very inexpensively. Grow up and Go Away.
PCGS sets under The Thomas Collections. Modern Commemoratives @ NGC under "One Coin at a Time". USMC Active 1966 thru 1970" The real War.
Comments
An excellent point that I think most of the rest of us missed! LOL!
___________________________
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ronsrarecoin.com
ebay auctions for ronsrarecoin-com
O I'm sorry Mr. Burger, adjective is: a word belonging to one of the major form classes in any of numerious languages and typically serving as a modifier of a noun to denote a quality of a thing named.
The Bong is in the PCGS available icons, and I thought it would be fun to use as it is unique.
The ID "NoGvmnt" is actually short for a handle I used to use"NoGvmntCheese4U" which is a spinoff of Seinfelds soup nazis' "No Soup for you" line.
But leave it to a bunch of jeromes' buddies to twist it into something totally unwarranted.
Hey jerome, you won't have to post your worthless merchandise for sale here when you recieve your next delivery, all of your buddies claim that they would be happy to buy from you, so you can go through this thread, collect their profiles, and PM them with your next offer. They are all to happy to buy unsellable merchandise.
Oh, and jerome, if you don't like being called a liar, don't lie.
atcbob, define A-1 quality, if you mean resellable material free of defects, then yes, that is what I was expecting. If you mean Proof 70 material, then you are wrong. Yes I did state that I intended to resell the sets on Ebay, is that a crime? Is that not what the majority of the posters here do? What is the relevance of your statement?
Oh yeah atcbob, he sold 200 sets, which came in 100 boxes, so if he opened 1 box that leaves 99 boxes not 199, geez if you can't even keep that straight, who dresses you every morning.
Jim
As stated, some people are not in the buisiness to make the most they can from a coin product. If you bought something for $32.00 and then sold it for $120.00, then that is a good deal on your half.
Then if you want to sell them for full retail of $180.00 or whatever, it WILL take you longer to sell the items.
Your attitude and demeanor calls bad light to you in this situation.
"who dresses you in the morning?", boy, that's from what, 3rd grade?
You chose to bring this to this public forum. You then must accept what is said by others. If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen.
the box they came in are absolutely not tampered with, and i've inspected it closely. Jerry was a great guy and very friendly. He didn't strike me as the type to mess with the sets and try resealing them. He also struck me as a highly sociable type who wouldn't particularly enjoy the tedium of listing hundreds of items on ebay and writing e-mails back and forth. I also brought a handful of sets with us into the bar as we talked and he obviously had no qualms about me opening as many sets as i liked.
Very nice guy and smooth transaction - i have no reason to believe he was pawning what he believed to be garbage.
Here's the worst of the 4 sets i sampled. maybe 3 coins had a bit of haze around the rim. i've seen much worse on proof sets.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
I have never stopped trying to find a way to resovle this unforunate situation. env through all the words, good or bad. And by reading all the input, and comments from fellow Collector Universe members, and other area businessmen, I have come up with a proposal I want you and the community to review, and provide feed back.
With your investment, you intended to use e-bay to go forward with your plan. Let's take it step by step.
1. Investment-----------------$1,680.00 for 14 sets
2. sell 10 sets on e-bay-----$1,750.00 at $175.00 each
3. oldguy buys back 4 sets-$ 320.00 at $ 80.00 each, or you can sell for more.
4. due the math--------------$ 2,070.00 total return
5. Minus your investment-- $ 1,680.00
6. Equals-----------------------$ $ 390.00 Profit.
I truly feel I have done nothing wrong, but I do feel obligated to try to recitify the situation. As being a member of this community, we all need to help resolve problems within this community. I don't think this should have gone this far, but reality is reality, and we need to go on to other endeavors. I hope things can settle down, and everbody can get back to being helpful to other members. This cite gives all of us an opportunuty to show, and discuss what I believe is a passion, more than a investment tool, but when things get personal, that makes the fun and joy evaporate. Please consider my offer, and try to back off on the personal comments, and stay focused on resolution.
Or oldGuy could call him "Reefer Head".
Would old guy get Ann MArgaret or Sophie Loren in which he playe ( was it Lemon or Mathau?)
Or nogvmnt could go by the nickname "The Anarchist".
Hey,
Should this thread be moved to the "Potential Movie Titles" forum?
<<<With your investment, you intended to use e-bay to go forward with your plan. Let's take it step by step.
1. Investment-----------------$1,680.00 for 14 sets
2. sell 10 sets on e-bay-----$1,750.00 at $175.00 each
3. oldguy buys back 4 sets-$ 320.00 at $ 80.00 each, or you can sell for more.
4. due the math--------------$ 2,070.00 total return
5. Minus your investment-- $ 1,680.00
6. Equals-----------------------$ $ 390.00 Profit.>>>
Your nimbers are a little off Mr. Brown:
1. Investment---------$1,700.00 for 14 sets ($120.00 each + $20.00 postage)
2. Sell 10 sets on Ebay------$1,450.00 ($160.00 each minus Ebay fees)
3. oldguy buys back 2 sets---$240.00 (remember you stated that you would gladly write a check for the 2 sets in this thread? You never offered to buy back 4 sets at $80.00 each.)
4. Do the math----$1,690.00
5. Minus my investment---$1,700.00
6. Equals ----------$10.00 Loss
The 2 remaining bad sets that you refuse to refund/replace, of the 4 defective sets , I intend to destroy so tht they cannot be used to cheat another unsuspecting potnetial buyer. I will be givintg both jbsteven and tonekiller evidence that I destroyed these sets at the convention.
I have mailed those 2 sets to you Mr. Brown, certified and with return receipt for the refund of $240.00.
Jim M. Burger
Show us bong boy!! Prove us all wrong.
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
I hope Baccaruda's reply demonstates my commitment on being honest, and not your interpretation of me to the community.
I'd already decided before reading Baccaruda's post that you did NOTHING wrong, but his word just carved that in stone. I'd suggest that, from this point forward, you simply ignore the antagonist. Continuing to respond to his ramblings serves no constructive purpose for you, or for this forum.
Russ, NCNE
Mr. Burger it is time for you to grow up and shut up!!!
Here, read his post, then read his shall we say misrepresentations in his Ebay listing of the same sets below that (see if yu can catch all the lies):
<<Marty just called my attention to this thread after I told him about my dealings with Jerry (oldguy) - I met him at his place in NY. I bought 50 '99 silver sets from him and opened 1 box at random - both sets were perfect. After reading this i opened another box and both were of similar quality. there is some incidental haze around the rim of one of the kennedys - nothing out of the ordinary. i just checked them against my set i bought directly from the mint in '99 - can't tell them apart.
the box they came in are absolutely not tampered with, and i've inspected it closely. Jerry was a great guy and very friendly. He didn't strike me as the type to mess with the sets and try resealing them. He also struck me as a highly sociable type who wouldn't particularly enjoy the tedium of listing hundreds of items on ebay and writing e-mails back and forth. I also brought a handful of sets with us into the bar as we talked and he obviously had no qualms about me opening as many sets as i liked.
Very nice guy and smooth transaction - i have no reason to believe he was pawning what he believed to be garbage.
Here's the worst of the 4 sets i sampled. maybe 3 coins had a bit of haze around the rim. i've seen much worse on proof sets.>>>
Now, his Ebay
listing:
<<<You are bidding on (2) unopened 1999 Silver Proof Sets as they came directly from the mint. They came packaged 2 sets to a box with the code “S90” on the packaging to identify them – note the picture. I opened 1 package to sample the wares and they were exactly as I expected – clean , nice and the expected ultra cameos as seen in the sample pictures below. The box you will receive will be UNOPENED. I've obviously never seen these sets before so I can't predict whether they'll be toned, hazed, cameod, or be blast white cameos like the one I sampled. Happy Bidding.>>>
UNsurprisingly, I don't see any refund/return policy in baccarudas' Ebay auction.
accepting a return on an "unopened" package would be tantamount to me standing at the counter at the gas station, scratching off lotto tickets and expecting a return on the non-winners.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>accepting a return on an "unopened" package would be tantamount to me standing at the counter at the gas station, scratching off lotto tickets and expecting a return on the non-winners. >>
This is exactly what NoGvmnt wants, and thinks he will get sympathy here. But hey, if we keep this going, we may get a record number of replies to a thread on this forum. It is definately a joke thread now.
END OF STORY............please.
HISTORY:
Buyer buys "unopened" sets from the mint from seller at $120 per, even though they sell for far more elsewhere.
Buyer must immediately either figure:
(a) he's dealing with a con artist with unbelieveable prices to lure in buyers (warning flag?),
(b) an unknowledgeable seller who doesn't realize he'll be taking a loss (and the buyer making a tidy quick profit), or
(c) a seller who bought low and is content to sell higher, albeit not the highest possible - - i.e. a decent return on his investment, as he figures.
Knowing and calculating the potential odds of any one of the above scenarios, buyer buys sight-unseen as described. Buyer then takes on the risk.
Seller makes the "mistake" not of opening a set (which is in his right to do), but of including it in the package when the sale notice said "unopened". I have to agree this sets him up for some complaint or right of exchange on that one.
However..... if the seller opened one & found it to be "milky", wouldn't it be a stupid move on his part to include it knowingly in the shipment to open him up for attack? Wouldn't someone out to scam someone make it a point to include NO evidence of his having opened any boxes or any potential knowledge of "milky" problems? From my viewing angle, this seems to smack more of bad judgement by the seller than fraud.
I have to agree with a majority of the responses here that it seems the buyer knew what he was doing buying these sets, and was looking to make a quick buck, and was willing to gamble on the nice price towards that end. It would have made much more sense for the buyer, if he were TRULY interested NOT in what grade they might break-out at, but in just making a quick profit, to ALSO sell these as "unopened" - - and let the NEXT buyer take his equal chance at them! SURELY, he must have known he would have reduced the sets' value by opening them, turning a potential profit into almost certain financial loss!
"I think the man doth protest too much!!"
I'm sorry, but based on all I've read back and forth on this topic, the Judge Wapner in me has to find in favor of the "defendant" here! Please empty the courtroom now and go back to your everyday lives!
- - Dave
and why lots of other great collectors rarely post or comment on the pcgs.com boards anymore
sincerely michael
karlgoetzmedals.com
secessionistmedals.com