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BEWARE of Jerome F. Brown (oldguy)
NoGvmnt
Posts: 1,126 ✭
For those that do not recall what Jerome was selling here is a link to his post here on April 15, 2003:
Link.
I purchased 14 - 1999 Silver Proof Sets from Mr. Brown, of those 14 sets, 4 of them were bad, ie: they had white milky haze all over the coins. I contacted mr. Brown concerning this problem and he claimed that he never opened the boxes that the sets came in from the mint although one of the boxes that he sent me was in fact opened prior to it being sent to me.
Obviously I wouldn't have to warn others of Mr. Brown if he were honorable but his response to my Email concerning the bad sets leaves me no other opinion that he is nothing more than a lowlife.
I believe Mr. Brown knew exactly what he was pawning off on the members of this community, and by the claim in the above link that he will have more sets for sale soon he is intending to continue his fraudulent practice. Don't be suckered by him.
Jim M. Burger
Link.
I purchased 14 - 1999 Silver Proof Sets from Mr. Brown, of those 14 sets, 4 of them were bad, ie: they had white milky haze all over the coins. I contacted mr. Brown concerning this problem and he claimed that he never opened the boxes that the sets came in from the mint although one of the boxes that he sent me was in fact opened prior to it being sent to me.
Obviously I wouldn't have to warn others of Mr. Brown if he were honorable but his response to my Email concerning the bad sets leaves me no other opinion that he is nothing more than a lowlife.
I believe Mr. Brown knew exactly what he was pawning off on the members of this community, and by the claim in the above link that he will have more sets for sale soon he is intending to continue his fraudulent practice. Don't be suckered by him.
Jim M. Burger
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Comments
Jim,
If there was one set that you claim was opened, then you should have let me know as soon as possible, and not even opened the other boxes. I would have gladly had you return all the sets, and returned all your money. I can not even perceive, that you would think I would know what's in any of the boxes. I have sold over 200 of these sets without any person ever stating there was any problem, let alone be accused of some plot to distort, or corrupt this passion. The purpose of having unopened packages, is to keep them unopened. If you, the customer decide to open them, for the benefit of possible third party certification, which is why people open them in the first place, then you need to take responsibility of your own actions.
I would consider returning your money for 2 sets, which you claim where opened, but not for any of the other sets that were not opened. Just send them back to me certified, and I'll cut you a check.
Has any one else had problems like this with Mr. Burger. It appears he has had harsh words for other people also I have read. I don't understand the comment about being a scum bag. Is that what people are that did nothing wrong? I think there is more behind this attept to disgace me, but I don't accuse, or call other hunam beings digraceful names. I have nothing to hide or be assamed of on this.
And as for anyone else here having problems with me as you insinuate, there are many members here that I have purchased coins from and I'm sure they will post that there have been no problems what-so-ever.
And you claim that you have read that I have had harsh words for other people? Maybe you should back-up your claim with a link.
I will be sending the 2 sets back that were opened for a refund, and they will of course be sent certified.
You think that that I am attemptintg to disgrace you? You've disgraced yourself, I'm simply warning others before they get scammed.
Who are the other members of this forum that you've sold these sets to? Lets see what they have to say.
Jim M. Burger
I don't think a personnal attack on my person, belongs in this Forum, maybe you can attack me better on the open forum.
You are very adept at twisting the facts Mr. Brown, habit?
You can easily accuse me of pulling a fast one, you say? I have saved all Emails between you and myself, and you know very well that I Emailed you soon after receiving the sets from you. Then it took you 3 days to reply that you would not accept the return of the bad sets:
Hi Jerome, I received the 14 Silver proof sets today. There are 4 bad sets
in the bunch, the coins have a milky haze to them, do you have a
return/replacement policy?
Thanks,
Jim M. Burger(NoGvmnt@msn.com)
6606 W. Windsor Ave.
Apt. G2
Berwyn, Illinois 60402-3599
(708) 749-0350
Jim,
The sets where unopened from the mint. I would not have known what was in
those boxes, until someone opened them. Just like opening a pack of baseball
cards. After they are opened, they don't have the same value to me.
Jerome F. Brown
Opened proof sets vs. unopened, how much value difference is there really? Just take them back oldguy and live to sell another day. After all, without customers you can't sell anything.
Trying to be objective here, Thanks Brian
PS, the panning for gold post is in your own link. It was actually directed to aija, not you.
Jim,
I received your check Saturday. I will have your proof sets in the mail this morning. You will receive one box, with seven boxes in it. The boxes contain 2 sets in each. I will send you a tracking number this morning sometime.
Your proofs have been mailed as of 9:00 EST. They were shipped Priority mail/with Registered service. You can track this shipment through www.usps.com. The number is #0301 0120 0008 2023 8125. You will need to sign for this shipment. 3-6 days.
Jerome F. Brown
You did not ask any questions in that Email, what is it that you expected me to reply to?
AND, I have requested that you to post a link to confirm two false statements that you have made in your previous posts here and you have yet to do so, so you evade those requests and now you change the subject with your claim that I never responded to an Email that required no response.
Nuff said.
And since Mr. Brown is attempting to bring my integrity into question, here are some members of this community that I have purchased from in the past 6 weeks, some more than once:
gcoin, Hurricane, baseball, slowtown, shortdj, LincolnCentMan, ask any of them if they have had any problem with me or the purchases that I have made.
Jim M. Burger
I tried to keep my comment light as possible. IMHO you guys are getting out of hand with the bashing - it's not constructive in resolving the situation. All that's been accomplished is potentially having members, at least me anyway, wary of both of you.
Respectfully,
John Wondowski
The forum is here to make the community do things right!!
I'm sure oldguy will see the light.
Deane
If you buy an UNOPENED anything (Mint set, Proof set,Rolls ETC) and open it and the Quality is now what
you expect you are out of luck as far as I am concerned. You went GAMBLING and LOST and now want someone to take care of you. "SORRY CHARLIE"
PCGS THE ONLY WAY TO GO
Ed
My Dimes
<< If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right the first time! >>
How much damaged product is in dispute? Less than $100?
In all seriousness, I found NoGvmnt to be a very friendly guy. I try to stay out of third party disputes, though.
David
Joy, 4 sets($480.00) out of 14 sets.
I asked for a refund or replacement and Mr. Brown refused. I would have gladly accepted 4 sets that Mr. Brown opened to verify that they were not defective.
Jim M. Burger
LincolnCentMan, I apologize for bringing you into this, I should have gotten your permission first. It just infuriates me when someone attacks my integrity in a misleading attempt to conceal his own wrongdoing.
You continue to lie, I sent you this Email on Friday, April 25th:
"Hi Jerome, I received the 14 Silver proof sets today. There are 4 bad sets
in the bunch, the coins have a milky haze to them, do you have a
return/replacement policy?
Thanks,
Jim M. Burger(NoGvmnt@msn.com)
6606 W. Windsor Ave.
Apt. G2
Berwyn, Illinois 60402-3599
(708) 749-0350"
In one of your Emails to me you stated that you are doing business as "Coins Unlimited" in upstate New York. I've checked the filings and all I could come up with was someone doing business as "Coins Unlimited" in the Bronx back in 1981 and the status of that filing is "Inactive".
If you are doing business as "Coins Unlimited", you are in the coin business, which begs the question, Why have you sold more than 200 of these 1999 Silver Proof Sets to the public instead of through your business or to other dealers who have been offering $150.00 per set in Coin World?
You ARE in the business, you MUST have been aware of this, right?
And, as a dealer (being in the business), you couldn't possibly NOT be aware of the problems with these sets, now could you?
But, being in the business, you claim, "I don't have a return or replacement policy on products I sell unopened". Yet, you claim that if I returned the entire shipment to you, you would have refunded my entire purchase price, but, you refuse to refund or replace the 4 sets that are defective.
And, for you to claim that you have not recieved any other complaints although you have sold more than 200 of these sets is preposterous and not worthy of belief.
There is much more that can be said but I'm sure you get my drift.
Sincerely,
Jim M. Burger
It hasn't and nor will it solve either persons problem.
Email TwoDollarDon
No, but leaving it up may prevent anyone else from acquiring the same problem and serve as a warning/reminder for others to not put full faith in these forums just because many of these members have the same interest.
Jim
Personally, I would rather know what the coin's look like ahead of time.
And if I go treasure hunting with an unopened set or set's, then it's my gamble as to what I get,
Pure, Plain and Simple!
Jerome, however makes money selling unopened mint products to people who hope to find really nice examples when they open them. We all know that this is not always the case! These items DO sell at a premium, because they have NOT been picked over.
Jim, if the US Mint shipping boxes were NOT openned, you have NO recourse! You bought coin sets in unopened boxes! How could Jerome have known what the sets looked like if the boxes were NOT opened? He made no guarantees as to the quality of the coins! Just that they had NOT been picked through yet! You gambled on an unknown quantity and lost out on a few items. You were cherry-picking and got a few sets that you don't like! Suck it up and take it like a man! If you wanted a guarantee of super-nice coins, you should have asked for it ahead of time, as well as what the return policy would be, or bought from a dealer that was willing to pick through the sets for you!
That is my impartial, third-party, opinion!
___________________________
click to email me
ronsrarecoin.com
ebay auctions for ronsrarecoin-com
My suspition is that oldguy knew that there were a certain percentage of defective sets in his lot and failed to disclose that fact when he sold them here. My question now is: Did Mr. Brown purchase these sets AFTER the news was released that the U.S. Mint became aware of the defective sets, and therefore, was aware that his lot most probably contained defective sets, considering that 4 out of 14 (28.5%) of the sets that I received from Mr. Brown is defective, Mr. Brown wouldn't have to open very many sets to conclude that he did in fact have defective sets.
It should be noted that in one of Mr. Browns' Emails to me, he states that he has sold approximately 200 of these sets, which makes me even more suspicious as to when Mr. Brown purchased his sets, before or after the news broke? And, Mr. Browns' statement that he will have more sets to sell shortly, seems rather suspitious as to whether or not he is aware of the fact that there are defective sets in his offerings. >>>
What I don't get is if Nogvmnt knew the mint had problem sets then why did he want to buy unopened one's in the first place? If I spent that much money I would want to see pictures of the sets before buying knowing the mint had problems with some sets.What's the benefit in having unopened ones is their some kind of error coins or something in them?Just does'nt make sense.
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
How a coin dealer could sell more than 200 of these sets (as he claims) and then claim to not have a clue that a high percentage of them were defective is beyond belief. Considering the fact that one of the boxes was opened prior to shipment is evidence that Mr. Brown did in fact open at least some of the boxes and was aware of the defective nature of the product.
RNC, you state, " How could Jerome have known what the sets looked like if the boxes were NOT opened?"
First, it is a fact that Mr. Brown has opened at least some of these boxes. Hence, he could/should have been aware of the defective nature of his lot.
Second, the majority of the mint boxes that I recieved from Mr. Brown either contain the same numerical picking code on them or are very close to one another if not consecutive.
Third, It has been stated continuously within these forums that if someone recieved a specific quality of coin in one of the sets of his/her deliveries from the U.S. Mint, chances were better than average that other sets delivered within the same series and package also contained the higher quality coins. With this in mind, Mr. Brown, being the experienced coin dealer that he is, had to conclude that there was a better than average chance that his lot contained an equally better than average chance of containing a high percentage of defective sets.
Fourth, as a coin dealer, did Mr. Brown have a fiduciary duty to inform his clients that he may have suspected that these sets were defective?
Fifth, as stated earlier, Mr. Brown is a coin dealer and as such is/should be more aware of the news concerning the defective sets. For him to claim ignorance is, at the very least, a copout in my opinion.
I'd also point out the fact that Mr. Brown piggybacked a post to sell these sets on another thread a week prior to offering them in a new specific thread of his own making. In his piggybacked post, Mr. Brown failed to make available any means of contacting him, did he post the original piggybacked post in an attempt to test the interest in the sets prior to purchasing them from wherever he purchased them from whoever he purchased them from knowing the defective nature of the sets beforehand?
Again, just to make it perfectly clear, I was not on a treasure hunt when I purchased these sets and had no intention of cracking them open for submission, I was simply looking to purchase for resale on Ebay.
As for knowing about the mints problems, it is my understanding that only the sets produced later in the year had the problems, and with the self serving statements Mr. Brown made in his Emails to me prior to my purchasing from him, I assumed he was honorable.
Jim
that is the only question that matters.
If there was and those are not acceptable I think that those set(s) should be exchanged for UNopened ones.
The fact that you opened the other ones and don't like what you've found is a mute point. He delivered exactly what he promised. UNOPENED PROOF SETS. Except for 2? If 2 of them were opened you should exchange THOSE 2 for unopened ones. PERIOD.
WRONG place to discuss this.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
You paid $120 for sight-unseen products that retail in stores for $170.
Now you demand that the sight-seen retail price be reduced to $120 just for you.
Obviously the possibility you could be wrong is not anywhere in your mind, but the fact is..... You Are Wrong!
Heck because of your warning, and the subsequent discussion, I'd do business with Oldguy.
I did not demand that the retail price be reduced to $120, that is the price that oldguy posted for the sets.
You state that the sets are selling for $170 Retail, so buy them retail if you want, since when is anyone REQUIRED to pay retail? Oh, and by the way, they are not selling for $170 retail.
I simply demand that oldguy stand behind his product, he obviously knew that he was selling defective sets, why didn't he state that in his original post? Because he knew that noone would buy the sets, that's why.
Hell, Jerome claims that he has sold over 200 sets, he should have 4 extra GOOD sets laying around to replace the 4 defective ones he pawned-off on me, don't you think or don't you think?
And as for your comment that after reading this thread you would buy from oldguy, go ahead, after my posting that proves that Jerome has twisted the truth and posted plainly misleading statements, and he does not stand behind his product, requires his customers to go to great lengths just to recieve an iota of justice, you would feel comfortable buying from him be my guest.
Where is your profile fishcooker, I just want to see if you and oldguy are neighbors or related, I just can't see anyone with half-a-brain claiming that he/she would even consider purchasing anything from Mr. Brown after what has been posted here.
By the way, I wouldn't purchase defective sets from the U.S. Mint for $31.00 why should I be expected to purchase defective sets from Mr. Brown for almost 4 times as much?
Sincerely,
Jim M. Burger
As far as your fairy tales to the cummunity, that's for the cummunity to review and come up with their own opinion. As for the oldguy, I will continue to post only certified, or unopend products from the mint. That's all I deal with.
Now you are attcking another community member becuase he does not aggree with you. That's your real personal problem, if someone disgrees with you, you attack them. You are no more a collector, than mother goose. Let's face it, you stated you were only in it to make a quick buck on e-bay. If you researched e-bay, you would see I don't deal there. I'm not in it for a quick buck. That's not what collecting, or selling is about. You need to understand the buiness more. By attacking a person in a unprofessional manner, citing you are doing it for the good of the community, is nothing more than trying to get the commuity to feel sorry for you.
I stand behind all my products. You for some reason are trying to defraud the system, and taking hostages along the way.
As one member put it Suck it Up.
Can you explain again how oldguy "knew" these unopened sets were defective?
Better do alittle more research on what these proofs are selling for. Most cites have them at 180.00 to 195.00. Just use your search engine, and maybe you will gather some more knowledge.
I don't care what "some sites" are advertising for, the fact is you can purchase the sets for much less than those advertised prices. Is everyone REQUIRED to purchase at the highest price advertised, of course not.
And, since you are so knowledgeable about the so-called retail price, the question remains, why were you offering them for $120 per set when you could have sold them for mush more if they were not defective? Because you knew that you were selling defective merchandise, and you should have acknowledged that in your post. Why didn't you, because you knew that you wouldn't be able to sell them otherwise.
Jim
I think oldguy is in the right and you are just upset because the coins are not PR70. Get over it already.
<< <i>Can you explain again how oldguy "knew" these unopened sets were defective? >>
good question.
If you haven't figured it out by now, then let me bring you up to date. If you read the packaging, you will see my name on them all. Doesn't that tell you I purchased them 4 Years ago. By selling them now for 120.00 to you, gave me what I was looking for, and providing other new or older collectors, or fast buck guy's a chance to sell piece meal. My investment was 4 years ago, and you missed that boat. So think ahead, and not for tomorrow, and you will be succesfull some day. I don't know how you can go on saying I knew pieces were defective, when I never opend them? That just boggles my mind.
bstat, Honestly, I couldn't tell the difference between Proof 64 and Proof 70. I'm simply not interested in the crackout and slab game. I was simply looking to resell the sets on Ebay at a small profit to support my own collection. If you can't understand that then it is your problem.
<< Can you explain again how oldguy "knew" these unopened sets were defective? >>
The fact that one of the boxes (that I rec'd) was opened proves that Mr. Brown had spot checked the lot, and had first hand knowledge that the sets were defective. To expect that mine was the only one out of the whole "more than 200 sets" that he had opened would be foolhardy.
You people couldn't possibly be this foolish, can you?
And Mr. Brown, your name and that of your wife on the boxes doesn't PROVE in any way that you purchased them 4 years ago. And considering taht I have proven that you've lied numerous times in this thread alone, not to mention your Emails to me, why would I possibly trust you to be telling the truth now?
Jim
With that said, I would purchase unopened 1999 Silver Proof Sets from Mr. Burger @ 120.00 per and take my chances anyday!
Your argument is not fair to this man. You are making accusations of him without fact. Merely assumptions on your part IMO.
You ignorence is getting the better of me. How can my name and my wifes name get on the original mint boxes after March 2000. That's when all were sold out. The mint started selling them in Oct. 1999- March 2000. Do you think I have a mint buddy sending these to me in 2003?in original packaging.
Email TwoDollarDon