Imaging Coins: Scanner vs. Camera your opinions and or help please.
TRADERBOBZ
Posts: 281 ✭
I have tried all sorts of ways to do it properly to get theTRUE effect of the coin,I say true in bold because we have all seen doctored photos in auction listings that well to keep it short just make you crazy when the coin arrives at your door.So here are a few things ive tried and looking for other help to achieve a true image of the item...............The two most common ways to image coins are by the use of a scanner or camera, and as i will show here the same coin can appear significantly different based on which is used to image it. The scanned images on this coin were obtained from a UMAX Astra 1220S with 600x1200dpi optical resolution, and the photographed images obtained from an Olympus D-400 Zoom digital camera, capable of an image resolution of 1280x960. 
The angle made by the light of a scanner to the item being scanned is relatively fixed, while objects and light sources photographed by cameras can be varied to best effect. This can be seen by images of an 1805 Irish penny graded Proof-64 by PCGS.(Dont worry i also collect U.S coinage)
The upper image captured by the scanner shows a high amount of detail, but the surface is a matte brown and no reflectivity is seen. The other image is captured by the camera and the mirror quality of the surface is clear. As promised i will use a U.S coin now
Related to reflectivity is luster. Mint state coins often show a cartwheel effect produced by microscopic flow lines on the coin's surface, such as seen on this 1881-S PCGS MS66 Morgan dollar. As before, the scanner sees the high detail of the coin, but also as before, the coin exhibits a matte surface. Highlights are seen in the hair, however, as the scanner light has reached it at an advantageous angle. In contrast, the camera sees a significant cartwheel on the coin's surface and the coin itself has a more even appearance with the hair no more highlighted than the rest of the coin.
Now a little on the toning that drives all or most of us crazy......
Scanners may also not see toning of a coin correctly. The 1881-S Morgan shows this slightly - the pink toning in PLURIBUS appears as almost a shadow in the scan - but this PCGS MS64 1904-O Morgan dollar shows it dramatically. The coin in hand appears as the camera sees it - an obverse of lustrous purple and green. The scanner sees a completely different matte orange and green. Although radically different, it is clear that it is the same coin - note the white irregular feature below and to the left of the ear along the cheek and neck - it is seen in both images. Sorry this post is getting long so i will try and finish it up with a few more commentsAlthough in each case the camera produced an image of superior accuracy when compared to the coin itself, it does have its drawbacks. Without a professional setup, the coin had to have been imaged at an angle to show the surface clearly. This produces an image which is oval while a scanner produces an image which is correctly round. Also without a professional setup it is difficult for the camera to image a coin at an exact scale. A scanner does this by its nature - a coin scanned at 600dpi is exactly that size. My camera in particular also suffers from a third problem. This camera has an auto-focus which cannot be disabled, and when in macro mode - designed for imaging objects close-up - often the camera focuses on something other than the desired object. Images needed to be taken repeatedly until one that was clear was obtained. Coins encased in slabs were particularly difficult - the camera tended to focus on the surface of the slab rather than on the coin inside. Again, with a professional setup - including a professional camera which has a manual focus - a problem like this would be avoided. So again just a few things i have found to be both helpfull or a disaster in coin imaging.....Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this topic?
P/S.....I had to get away from the open forum for awhile if you where wondering What the heck is this guy doing here
The angle made by the light of a scanner to the item being scanned is relatively fixed, while objects and light sources photographed by cameras can be varied to best effect. This can be seen by images of an 1805 Irish penny graded Proof-64 by PCGS.(Dont worry i also collect U.S coinage)
The upper image captured by the scanner shows a high amount of detail, but the surface is a matte brown and no reflectivity is seen. The other image is captured by the camera and the mirror quality of the surface is clear. As promised i will use a U.S coin nowRelated to reflectivity is luster. Mint state coins often show a cartwheel effect produced by microscopic flow lines on the coin's surface, such as seen on this 1881-S PCGS MS66 Morgan dollar. As before, the scanner sees the high detail of the coin, but also as before, the coin exhibits a matte surface. Highlights are seen in the hair, however, as the scanner light has reached it at an advantageous angle. In contrast, the camera sees a significant cartwheel on the coin's surface and the coin itself has a more even appearance with the hair no more highlighted than the rest of the coin.
Now a little on the toning that drives all or most of us crazy......
Scanners may also not see toning of a coin correctly. The 1881-S Morgan shows this slightly - the pink toning in PLURIBUS appears as almost a shadow in the scan - but this PCGS MS64 1904-O Morgan dollar shows it dramatically. The coin in hand appears as the camera sees it - an obverse of lustrous purple and green. The scanner sees a completely different matte orange and green. Although radically different, it is clear that it is the same coin - note the white irregular feature below and to the left of the ear along the cheek and neck - it is seen in both images. Sorry this post is getting long so i will try and finish it up with a few more comments
Although in each case the camera produced an image of superior accuracy when compared to the coin itself, it does have its drawbacks. Without a professional setup, the coin had to have been imaged at an angle to show the surface clearly. This produces an image which is oval while a scanner produces an image which is correctly round. Also without a professional setup it is difficult for the camera to image a coin at an exact scale. A scanner does this by its nature - a coin scanned at 600dpi is exactly that size. My camera in particular also suffers from a third problem. This camera has an auto-focus which cannot be disabled, and when in macro mode - designed for imaging objects close-up - often the camera focuses on something other than the desired object. Images needed to be taken repeatedly until one that was clear was obtained. Coins encased in slabs were particularly difficult - the camera tended to focus on the surface of the slab rather than on the coin inside. Again, with a professional setup - including a professional camera which has a manual focus - a problem like this would be avoided. So again just a few things i have found to be both helpfull or a disaster in coin imaging.....Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on this topic?P/S.....I had to get away from the open forum for awhile if you where wondering What the heck is this guy doing here
TRADERBOBZBLOG
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
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Comments
Actually I've seen great pics taken with both. I think alot of it depends on the coin and any possible toning on the coin.
TomB I think uses a scanner for his pics and Shylock uses a camera and their pics are both first class. Anaconda takes darn nice pics too
I use a mavica and for a rookie photographer mine aren't shabby.
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
Great post.I had purchased a Nikon 4500 a few weeks ago.and would like to hear more about lighting ,I think thats were im having my problem..Al
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
Cameras are better generally, but ONLY if the person taking the picture knows what he or she is doing. Witness the thousands of teeny coin pics on eBay that look like the person was standing on the roof when they made the shot. (What? Coins? Those are coins?)
I need to switch to a camera soon, and educate myself. Have an inexpensive HP digital camera, but I've found it totally unsuited for coin pictures (great for snaps of the baby and the pets, but no good for coins).
BTW, that's a lovely proof 1805 Irish 1d. My 1805 proof 1/2d is a gilt. The various attempts I made at "iconizing" it suffered because I started with a really awful scan, and shrank it down from there.
I need to get a proper pic of it one of these days. That's the thing about proofs- they almost always need to be shot at an agle to capture the mirrors, contrast, and/or colors. I've had some success with the scanner by placing a coin in a slab at a slight angle to the glass by propping one end up slightly with a pencil or something. But the halfpenny proof I have is raw, like yours, so the slab trick won't work.
Here's a colorful proof Indian cent that I did the scan-at-an-angle trick on (it was in an ANACS PR62 RB slab). When I scanned it flat on the glass, it looked like a regular red Indian. When I did the angled scan, the colors leapt out perfectly on the first try, with no image enhancement necessary. Lucky shot. So what if it looks a little out-of-round because of the angle?
One of these days I'll get a proper camera and learn to use it, and leave the scanner behind. But I haven't graduated yet.
An open mind will support transformation.
Recognize life is full of change
and celebrate the opportunity.
"There is always a way to collect,Never surrender the hobby"
Great post. The ability to see the same coin side by side contrasting the two different options for capturing the image is invaluable.
I am a lazy photographer at the moment. I know there is much that I can do to increase the quality of my pictures. First I need to get a tripod. I do some hand held shots, and I'm lucky sometimes to get the focus that I need. I also need to experiment more with different light sources.
I have never had a scanner around, so I can't speak to that. But, in general most of the coin imagining I like, I find has been done with a camera.
Again, great post.
Clankeye