Poll: 1890-CC $20 MS-63??? (with follow-up)

RYK

I recently purchased an 1890-CC $20 NGC MS-62. While there are numerous MS-62's graded by both PCGS and NGC, there is a single MS-63 between the two. PCI grades this coin as MS-63. If it really were a MS-63, it would be worth a whole lot more than centsles looks to be getting.





link to auction

My NGC MS-62 for comparison (purchased last week from Doug Winter):

relayer

My guess is it's been whizzed upon

BillJones

One can never tell for sure from a scan, but the cheek looks gray to me, which would indicate a rub. There also may be some dulling in front of the face. Many PCGS and NGC MS-62 graded coins are actually "super sliders." So this one is probably not better and perhaps not as good as some of those pieces.

One other thought that would dance in my mind without seeing this coin. Why is it in this holder? If it were good enough to make it as an MS-63 in a PCGS or NGC holders, why would one bother to put it in THIS holder?

topstuf

While both top and bottom coins have light around the stars, the top coin does not coruscate from the head to the rim.

It looks cleaned or whizzed (as previously noted)

Probably light cleaning although scans NEVER tell the whole story.

Dabigkahuna

I know it's just a scan but it reminds me of those milky smooth Choice gems from the Brother Johnathan or off of the Central America. So rich and creamy you just want to take a bite!

The few CC coins I have seen in MS show a proof like strike especially in the fields. At least from this scan, I don't see any of that cartwheeling like luster that does show on your NGC MS62. Maybe whizzed?

If I were going to sell it I would probably send it to NGC. They seem to give the coin's eye appeal more consideration than PCGS. If it has been cleaned I think NGC offers to have it labbed and denoted on the cert.

Does anyone know if they net grade the coin at NGC?


Larry
Dabigkahuna

coinkat

Perhaps this is more of a scanning issue. Before rendering a judgement on the PCI graded coin, I want to personally see it. Based on the scans, the 1890-CC graded by NGC looks original and is mostlikely the better coin.

ms71

Very tough from a scan, but it really looks like a likely AU to me. Several areas of the hair below the coronet, and on the curls at the back of the head, show probable "rubs' as compared with the NGC.

RYK

Great input from the board! I have to assume the owner of the coin made an attempt to cross the coin to PCGS/NGC as Trends in 63 is $15,000. My non-expert opinion assumes that the scan is an accurate representation of the coin for sale. I would be concerned that the coin has been altered. The bright yellow color and the nearly pristine surfaces are very atypical for that year. I agree also that there may be some rub in the hair. Thanks to all who participated!

Robert

darktone

Looks like it was a nice coin before it was cleaned or more likely waxed. I see many gold coins in this condition being graded 60-61 by the big three. mike

oreville

The reverse looks like a natural 62/53, very nice indeed. But when comparing the obverse to the reverse the coin's true condition becomes obvious. The luster of the obverse does not come through as opposed to the reverse. Whether the coin has been cleaned or whatever, I can't tell from here as only personal inspection would identify the problem.

But certainly the obverse is no 63, not even a 62 and very unlikely a 61.

At best, this coin might be a combined MS-61 but more likely an MS-60 or worse or body baggable.

Added: Your NGC $20 looks like a very appropriate looking MS-62, not quite a choice BU coin but then that explains the 62 grade to a "T."

RYK

The final price was $4500+. In the unlikely event that the coin crosses to PCGS/NGC at 63 (or higher), the buyer got a steal. If the coin crosses at 62, the buyer got a deal. Any other outcome, the buyer is hosed.

oreville

RYK: LOL. You make it sound like the buyer has a 2 in 3 chance of either getting a steal or a deal!

What do YOU think his chance % wise of getting at least a deal if not a steal?

RYK

Oreville,

There are roughly 3 possible outcomes, but the probabilities are not equal. If they were, I would have considered making a play for it (not really). Here is how I would break down the probabilities:

1. MS-63 or greater at PCGS/NGC: 1%
2. MS-62 at PCGS/NGC: 3%
3. Anything else=Buyer hosed: 96%.

Based on your earlier post, I think that you are in approximate agreement.

Robert