2 cent experts: 1864 Repunched Date????

DMWJR

I have an 1864 LG Motto in a SEGS xf40 holder. The date was obviously repunched with a huge seperation, especially on the 1. Does anyone know anything about this variety and whether it is worth anything? I was considering selling it.

I can post pics if anyone is really interested.

BillJones

This sort of thing was pretty common on 1864 one and two cent pieces. The mint was trying to slap these things out as fast as possible because of the Civil War coin shortage and things got pretty sloppy You might get a few dollars extra for the coin because of the doubling, but you would have find a seriously interested collector to get a lot of money.

I might add that if this were a modern coin you have people beating a path to your door. Modern collectors get a lot more turned on by things like than classic coin collectors.

dldallen

Doug,

How coincidental - I just bought a raw one here in Brazil exactly as you described. I'd say an XF coin all the way with the distinct repunched date, mainly on the 1 and 8.

I started researching myself and found basically what Mr. Jones is saying. Here is a web site also: 1864 Two Cent Piece - Attribution Guide by Frank Leone. It only covers business strikes and you better be prepared for a long afternoon of reading to try to match your coin up - he says there were over 100 die marriages for the 1864 alone!

Perhaps Mr Jones could answer this - do you know if ANACS would attribute the repunched date on the 1864 2C? I see PCGS doesn't recognize it and not sure about NGC either.

Thanks and congrats on your find. Dave

DMWJR

WOW that is a great reference on 2 cent pieces. Thanks for the link, Dave, and your comments to, Bill.

BillJones

I'm not sure about ANACS. If you pointed it out, they might note the punched date on the holder.

I think that NGC would do an attribution for a fee, but by the time you paid the fee plus the grading charge, the entire expense might be equal the value of the coin. I've paid a total of $33 recently for the slab and service.

dbldie55

If the coin has a cherry pickers guide number, then NGC would place that on the holder. ANACS will place FS, Breen and a variety of other designators for coins. (Not sure if there is a standard reference for 2 centers, but if there is ANACS would denote it). If it does not fall under one of the previously defined designators, they would place "repunched date" on the holder.

shylock

Wow, now I realize why Frank Leone no longer had the time to host the Fly-In Club site. Thanks for the link Dave.

As Bill mentioned 1864 wasn't a good year for copper quality control at the Mint. The rush to put copper onto the market, combined with 3 different Indian cent issues, made for a slew of varieties. Clashed dies are the norm for 1864 (no L) bronze IH's. There's even a triple punched date in the 2-cent series (courtesy of Baker's Numismatics):



A very unique variety has recently been listed from this year in the Indian cent series. A few 1864 bronze examples have been found with concentric lathe lines that circle the center point of the obverse. Rick Snow presumes this was the result of a quick fix on an unsatisfactory die due to time constraints. Attributed as S-11, the finest known just popped up in the Colburn sale in Heritage's Central States, though not listed as such:

DMWJR

Leone sure was busy! Mine is not as dramatic as the first pic you show, but it is close! Thanks for the pic, Paul.

Conder101

Possibly unique to the Indian cents but dies with similar concentric circular lines can be found on various seated Libery varieties (Most often seen through the shield.) and several Shield nickel varieties (Usually seen behind the leaves of the wreath, behind the Cross, and at the bottom of the stripes of the shield.) It looks to me like a die created from an unfinished hub that needed another pass or two through the reducing lathe machine. The master hub requires two or three passes through the reducing lathe to bring the details up fully and to eliminate most of these lines in the finished model. Each pass is an approximation with the result that the "resolution" becomes finer with each successive "approximation". The final hub then receives some polishing to remove the last traces of these lines. The example shown seems to show weakness in the detai around the mouth, eye, eyebrow, and hair. It almost has a sunken appearance.

DMWJR

These concentric circles also exist on the ultra high grade proof Roosevelt Dimes from the 50's.

Rittenhouse

The concentric lines are from the reducing late. The lines were left on the reduction. They should have been polished off the reduction or working hubs and were not. The piece I own was plated on page 65 of Bowers' book. Others have been found since then. The lines can be found on most denominations.

NumisEd

Doug,

The repunched date adds little or no value..........................much like most of your posts.

Ed

DMWJR

Ed, I hope that made you feel good.

dorkkarl

sentiments echoed - no premium for the rpd on 2-cents

K S