Psst! Wanna make $4k/50% on a coin in <4mos? Why I sometimes hate this hobby!
Max
Posts: 124
This coin resided in an old PCGS MS65 [sold as Lot 7261 Heritage FUN 1/03 for $7,762.50] and has now been reborn as a MS66 available for near $12k.
Someone bought it on a gamble, cracked out and won, this time. What annoys me is this activity continues to screwup the pops. There is now a lone MS66 and 6 MS65s. Obviously the crackout artist did not render the cert otherwise the MS65 count would have dropped to 5. I own a MS65 and I am 99% sure there are no more than 3 in PCGS.
The above not withstanding this coin is in no way no how a MS66. Look at the Heritage site for a close up. Noticable tick under the eye [the discerning ID mark], major tick on hat at about 11:00, and lots of other little ticks on cheek/hat. The L in Half has a ding which could be as minted but I doubt it. I own plenty of Barber Half 65s which look as good or better than this coin.
This is an example of why high end collectors shake their heads when looking at overgraded coins. The sucker [I mean buyer] of this coin will one day try to sell it to a dealer and will be offered 65 money, yielding yet another disappointed and poorer collector.
Today it really makes little sense to extend oneself and buy these megagrade coins with all the games going on. As of today I am sticking to nice circulated pieces where there is less greed and shenanigans! Totally disgusted!
Someone bought it on a gamble, cracked out and won, this time. What annoys me is this activity continues to screwup the pops. There is now a lone MS66 and 6 MS65s. Obviously the crackout artist did not render the cert otherwise the MS65 count would have dropped to 5. I own a MS65 and I am 99% sure there are no more than 3 in PCGS.
The above not withstanding this coin is in no way no how a MS66. Look at the Heritage site for a close up. Noticable tick under the eye [the discerning ID mark], major tick on hat at about 11:00, and lots of other little ticks on cheek/hat. The L in Half has a ding which could be as minted but I doubt it. I own plenty of Barber Half 65s which look as good or better than this coin.
This is an example of why high end collectors shake their heads when looking at overgraded coins. The sucker [I mean buyer] of this coin will one day try to sell it to a dealer and will be offered 65 money, yielding yet another disappointed and poorer collector.
Today it really makes little sense to extend oneself and buy these megagrade coins with all the games going on. As of today I am sticking to nice circulated pieces where there is less greed and shenanigans! Totally disgusted!
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Comments
<< <i>Obviously the crackout artist did not render the cert otherwise the MS65 count would have dropped to 5. >>
That statement assumes PCGS actually adjusts the pop report when the old cert is returned. I know from personal experience that they frequently do not.
Russ, NCNE
For me, the holder is the starting point in my process of looking for a coin. With all of the obvious problems in grade sensitive areas on that obverse, to me, that coin is not with 4 money. I don't care what PCGS or anyone else says about that coin. If it looks sight seen anything like that image, no one who knows anything about Barbers would disagree with me.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Unless you hound them for 2+ months with emails up and down the chain until you see the certificate number drop off the database.
<< <i>this well-struck, super lustrous jewel has been conservatively graded by PCGS >>
I guess it was REALLY conservatively graded when it was in a 65 holder.
Russ, NCNE
The great coin maxum of "buy the coin not the holder" is so funny. Show me one example anywhere on the internet of a PCGS or NGC graded coin being offered for a price grade lower than the one listed on the holder!!
Buy the coin not the holder is sure nice, but sellers don't seem to comply with that maxum too often. That is what I hate about numismatics!
Tom
Regardless of what any of us think about the coin or its current grade, your title to this thread could be misleading in more than one way.
1) It is entirely possible that the current seller is not the person who bought it for $7700 and change. The auction winner might have sold it for far less than $11,950. In fact, the coin might have changed hands more than once since then.
2) Even if the current seller is the person who bought it out of the auction, he is ASKING $11,950, not necessarily GETTING it.
3) Lastly, by the time the coin sells, it might be much longer than four months since the time it sold in auction.
I'm not trying to pick on you. I just want to point out that the crack out/upgrade game is not always as glamorous or profitable as it might appear to be.
What the hell were the "world class graders" at PCGS thinking when they gave this a 66?
It's pathetic.
You must be an analytic!
Yes, yes, yes. All true to your comments. Maybe I should have worded it:
Hey you! Wanna have an opportunity to make as much as $4k/50% on a coin in possibly <4mos? Why this hobby "ticks" me off sometimes!
I do understand Mark and have since cooled off since I posted. But boy something here does seems very very wrong. The silence of the other dealers is deafening. As usually you are the only one with guts to speak and I applaud you for that!
Yep, it's called professional courtesy.
Don't let it bother you about the coin. That's ½ the fun in buying coins; looking at lots of them and weeding out the junk until you find one that's acceptable.
See the brown dip retoning on the peripheral? Well in several years it will have turned in to a golden champagne monster and be undergraded as a 66, and the idiot buyer will double his $$ and laugh all the way to the bank.
Perhaps I didn't get worked up like you did because the example you gave is not terribly unusual in the business. And, like it (I don't) or not, it is a fact of life. I also try my best, not to make judgments of coins, based solely upon their images.
I have seen numerous situations where dealers have paid through the nose for coins in the hopes of getting them upgraded, only to end up with downgrades. You are much more likely to notice or hear about the winners in the crack out game. The losers are rarely publicized, as the coins gather dust for possible resubmission(s) in the future. As the coins sit around, the money paid for them is tied up and can add up in a hurry. Plenty of sharp dealers get hurt playing the game.
I'm glad you didn't take my post personally and like your proposal for a new title to the thread.
PS - There are a number of dealers with guts who post to this forum. In fact, sometimes, I think it takes a lot of guts just to admit you're a dealer around here.
if this coin was in a 65 holder just from the scan it the obverse without a doubt would be low end to me and below average eye appeal good lustre just too many makes on the obverse and the reeding mark
but to add fuel to the fire a no brainer dipped stripped blast white combined with an improperly rinsed coin
and see the mottled rim ugly tannish toning? that is the dip residue from an improper rinsing where the residue on the rims stayed on the coin from not enough rinsing and dried that way like dried water residue from the dishwasher on glass dishes
again
from an incomplete improper rinse and not properly neutralized after dipping........... too bad
a just okie coin to now a gross coin
and even if the coin was properly redipped and properly rinsed with lots of distilled water neutralized with a wash in baking soda and then rinsed again with lots of distilled water still looks stripped and dipped even with the great lustre
all the above comments based just on the scan
sincerely michael
If you see a lackluster coin from the dip it's because it was heavily toned when it was dipped, which leaves them dull and washed out looking.
Back in the 1980's neither service would give a Barber 25c or 50c a MS65 grade with any slide mark or hairline across the face. Today, those are acceptable on 67's if the coin has clean fields and blasty luster....sorry to say. My how things have changed.
I have always had a tough time figuring out how the 66's and 67's get assigned with obvious facial marks. But they do. I don't consider too many Barber halves as better than 65+. The Queller sale had several top notch pieces that got 66 and 67 grades with patches of slide marks and scuffs on the cheek area. This is the standard that PCGS and NGC now adhere to. In 1988 this coin would have been a 64 to 65. Today's standards for Barber halves are very different than way back then. It would not be unusual to see Barber coins upgrade 1-2 points. The coin hasn't changed, just the label. We could just as easily regrade the coin a 63 and drop all coins back several points. It's all about labels and marketing.
roadrunner