Anyone else feel a tad slighted when PCGS just bumps you down a service level...
mnmcoin
Posts: 2,165 ✭
and just gives you your money back on only the difference in what you paid for and what you are actually receiving.
I am not trying to start something here with PCGS (please don't kick me off...I like it here), my mind was just wandering as I was double checking a 15 day submission that is on its 20-something day.
I can remember when they used to just credit the whole thing back. Now it is just that you get the difference in what you paid for. For example on the 15 day invoice I paid $25 for two crossovers for a total of $50. On the 16th day I called to double check and they told me it was in verification or something like that, so I inquired about my credit and they said, that it would just get the bump down to economy and I would be credited the difference...economy at $13.50 each for a credit of $23. I didn't think much of it at the time other than oh cool a credit...but today I am going, no wait a minute they are just givin' me my money back on a service that I paid for, but are not receiving.
So, I guess what I am whining about, is that am I the only one that feels like you should get a little something more than just your money back.
morris <><
ps, thanks for letting me whine a little...even the most loyal PCGS fanatics go through boughts of wahdom!
I am not trying to start something here with PCGS (please don't kick me off...I like it here), my mind was just wandering as I was double checking a 15 day submission that is on its 20-something day.
I can remember when they used to just credit the whole thing back. Now it is just that you get the difference in what you paid for. For example on the 15 day invoice I paid $25 for two crossovers for a total of $50. On the 16th day I called to double check and they told me it was in verification or something like that, so I inquired about my credit and they said, that it would just get the bump down to economy and I would be credited the difference...economy at $13.50 each for a credit of $23. I didn't think much of it at the time other than oh cool a credit...but today I am going, no wait a minute they are just givin' me my money back on a service that I paid for, but are not receiving.
So, I guess what I am whining about, is that am I the only one that feels like you should get a little something more than just your money back.
morris <><
ps, thanks for letting me whine a little...even the most loyal PCGS fanatics go through boughts of wahdom!
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand."
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
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Comments
I think they responded fairly IF your coins are returned to you in a reasonable amount of time, perhaps within a week. If the bump down to economy means your coins will now take another month to grade, then that is not reasonable. Since you're a dealer, the longer your coins are in their hands, the longer you have to wait before you can sell the coins. This can annoy your customers as well, as lengthy turnaround times are frustrating for everyone.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Morris, If, at the drive-thru of McDonalds you SuperSized your 'number 3' and when you received your order realized your fries were regular size would you expect McDonalds to refund your full $3.29? >>
Darn tootin' I expect something extra than just what I am endin' up with. I have gotten alot of comps too, but maybe that is just cause I am slightly on the large side...who knows?
I guess I'll have to wait to see when it comes back, but the last couple of times I had talked with someone, I kind of got the impression that is just basically becomes an economy submission. I won't go into all that I have been told, but one cs rep when looking up the invoice # after the 15 day expiration, after punching in the # came back with something like "well your on day 22 or something...so you've got a few more weeks to go!" I assume they either saw something that said economy tier or just assumed it.
DCAM, I understand that some people have to do PCI or NGC or something, but I am just not going to waste my talent and coins by shipping stuff to other services where it just takes money and an in to make stuff.
Luckily, I have a backlog of coins that I have bought, that I am able to sell.
mo <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
There are certain legal doctrines that really prevent that type of behavior on the part of individuals and companies.
Braddick -- it's more akin to finding a rat in your supersized fries -- and I would expect McDonalds to refund my entire purchase price, not just the cost of the fries alone.
What's the point of a guaranty if the company isn't going to meet their end of the agreement. Then what you have is merely an inducement to convince you to send them your coins instead of their competitor. When they can't or won't abide by their own promise, they simply switch your order to economy level. They have your coins, they had all of your money for X number of days and then they are kind enough to refund the difference. Seems like a little bait and switch.
If I read an advertisement in a newspaper for a brand new 540 BMW for sale at David Hall BMW for $25,000.00 guaranteed price, and I drove past seven other dealerships to get to his in Newport Beach and I get there and he tries to switch the car to a 325, that's considered illegal. Why isn't this?
Until someone has the gumption to take on PCGS and CU, this isn't going to end. No offense Mr. Hall, but it's been awhile and nothing seems to getting better. Fees have been increased, designations have been added, but turnaround times have tripled and now a guaranty isn't a true guaranty anymore.
Stop the insanity!
Your friendly and sometimes not so friendly resident lawyer and collector,
Michael
I also suspect if McDonalds accidently fried up a rat in place of those frys Morris would be chasing them down (rightfully so!) for more than the cost of the full meal.
Anything less than that- he got his order of fries, just not as many of them- would require the business to refund what you are not getting but certainly not refund on product/services that you are (still) willing to accept.
I would think Morris would need to tell PCGS to not grade the coins at all- to just pass on the whole deal- for PCGS to be in a position of returning all the monies.
(Of course, it is good business to give MORE back, - in this case a couple of comps from PCGS to Morris for his patience, but it shouldn't be expected.)
peacockcoins
Well I hate to tell ya but McDonalds would just take back the regular size and hand you a supersize like you payed for. So like Frattlaw says what good is a guarantee if it just gets you longer and cheaper grading times. You would think that customers paying more for faster service go to the front of the line, what about 2 day walkthrough would you want to pay for this to have for a show or auction and be told, oh you have been bumped down to economy and credited the difference. What's the point in offering the service or a guarantee if their is no such service or guarantee?The list of services and fees states that they guarantee grades will be available but they don't seem to mention what will be done if it is not. I have noticed that PCGS when changing or making rules never seems to update their website to reflect these changes in a resonable amount of time and it creates a lot of confusion for people.It does not take long to update and post a webpage. If questions and services were listed with a lot more detail it might cut down on customer service spending so much time dealing with common customer questions and problems.
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
when he sent the coins he didn't agree to a 50-60 day turnaround, he paid for 15 days. they should either substantially discount a lesser service or return his coins and all of his costs. that would be fair.
just the same as when you go to the store looking for the sale and are told "we're out of stock". you've already spent time and money getting to the store, chances are you're just going to buy another similar item from them - and they know it.
sorry frattlaw - didn't see you already made the point
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
<< <i>Morris, If, at the drive-thru of McDonalds you SuperSized your 'number 3' and when you received your order realized your fries were regular size would you expect McDonalds to refund your full $3.29? >>
They would usually give you a coupon for a value meal (at least at all of the stores I worked in). This time issues seems to be getting bigger and bigger. They want you to pay for the higher service level, and then do not provide it, and expect you should be happy for not getting what you asked for. Very poor business sense. Giving a difference "credit" (read, not refund) does little to help. If you wanted the lower service level, you could have paid for it and had money in your pocket. Now you have to utilize their services again to use your "credit" and hope they can somehow fufill their own service offerings. Yes, I would expect more than a "credit" for not being able to deliver as advertised.
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!
<< <i>Morris, If, at the drive-thru of McDonalds you SuperSized your 'number 3' and when you received your order realized your fries were regular size would you expect McDonalds to refund your full $3.29? >>
This is a perfect example of why customer service is not a simple operation (although it's not brain surgery, either).
The difference in price/quantity for this fast food item is in fact not going to be my major problem here, the fact that I noticed the screw up after driving away from the window is. I went to the drive thru because i was in a hurry. I will now, if I want to get full value, either get back in the drive thru line or park and walk in and get on line. This is actually going to be far more aggravating than simply having been given less food than expected for lunch.
A good manager will notice that I am peeved and probably, as suggested earlier, give me what I paid for plus a token of goodwill acknowledging that they in some way inconvenienced me, that it was their fault entirely, and that they care about my patronage.
By giving me a coupon for a free meal in the future the manager will have accomplished a myriad of benefits from a small yet thoughtful gesture:
1: made me feel important;
2: gave me what i paid for;
3: found a way to compensate me for my inconvenience;
4: assured that i would return again for the free meal.
Of course, this is just how the average McDonalds manager would probably deal with this problem. We all know that PCGS is in a different league from a tiny little fast food franchise.
It's obvious that I am suggesting the proper course of action for pcgs is to apologize profusely, charge only for the service they perform, (but of course perform it as quickly as possible), refund any amounts that were not earned, and provide an incentive to return with more business in the future (perhaps a coupon for each coin that was not graded on time).
unfortunately for you, I am not running customer service for pcgs....
in other words, good luck Morris.
z
And, if bad things come, then I understand the need to call Customer Service and seek some courtesy grading coupons. There is no need to be a "pig" though
Wondercoin
Call me so we can get this straightened out. I'm not sure when you were told this but it is not correct.
Carol
ext. 102
Why does someone else's mistake have to be a money making proposition for the injured party? What's wrong with only paying for what you get, with nothing extra???? Technically, PCGS doesn't owe you a dime more than the difference between the time period for the two services. The next arguement will be "Well, no amount of money can get my sumbissions back in the 15 day window, so . . . I guess I will settle for a million bucks!" It's a jackpot justice mentality, and it's wrong.
Secondly, the PCGS customer service issue is a different animal. A cost of customer service is doing a little extra if you make a mistake. PCGS should have some policy on this, like a free sumbission or half off you next submission. If PCGS has a customer who DOES get their submission back in 15 days and the customer is still upset about something, PCGS Customer Service might want to do something for this customer to keep them, regardless of who is right or wrong. Sometimes, a company decides they don't want a particular customer so, they do nothing and let them go their own way.
Does this make sense????
1. Customers shouldn't expect to make something off someone else's error.
2. Customer service should go the extra mile to keep their customer.
I don't think these two thoughts conflict.
Re: your analogy, you would just get a refund for the fries the rat ate, not the entire cost of the fries.
Doug -- if you don't like these threads, don't respond, it's very simple. If you have a problem with lawyers, that sounds personal and you should talk it over with your therapist. If a NO LAWYERS sign makes you feel better
This was an issue that Morris brought to our attention. Its not a problem that I said he should sue PCGS over. I never solicited Morris to post this thread. Nor did I solicit anyone directly to take your "jackpot justice" mentality.
If you like being "had" by large companies and other individuals in general, again please feel free. There are plenty that will help you part with your money. PM me and I can give you a whole list that you can start with. For the most part we deal in a hobby where getting taken advantage of is the norm. I personally don't like it, but at least I like to know when it's happening so I can make an informed decision to be taken advantage of, ie., premiums I pay for toned coins. Others like to know if they have options.
After I posted my reply, Carol was kind enough to come on here and say that the information that Morris was told was incorrect. Let's see what PCGS does. If they in fact abide by the guaranty, I will applaude the effort and the customer service shown. I have given PCGS kudos before when it was deserved and they have taken care of some issues wonderfully. And I have vocally critized them as well. I live in a world where I expect people to live up to their obligations, nothing more, nothing less. When that doesn't happen, people turn to my profession for help. If everyone did what they promised they would do -- poof, no more lawyers. If you really want to get rid of us -- perhaps a sign that reads NO MORE BROKEN CONTRACTS or DRIVE SAFELY or maybe even NO DIVORCE would be better then your previous one.
Michael
I wasn't aware that PCGS ever GUARANTEED the turnaround time for their grading tiers - have they done so?
If so, the guarantee should include language regarding what happens when the guarantee is not met .
If not, submitters are free to complain, but like it or not, probably aren't entitled to anything other than PCGS' best efforts at meeting those non-guaranteed schedules.
Here's PCGS's own page identifying the service.
Grading Fees and Guaranty
Black's Law Dictionary definition of guaranty -- (edited for brevity)
A guaranty is a contract that some particular thing shall be done exactly as it is agreed to be done, whether it is to be done by one person or another.
What is interesting is that they say they will have the "grades" available not the "coin in a slab."
Michael
I am also a lawyer, as well as three other members of my immediate family. If you will re-read my post, you will see that I was slamming the attitude that has developed in this country by many, many people (not just lawyers). People have a car wreck and expect to make money. That's wrong. We have lost the concept that life is not fair, and bad things happen sometimes for which there is little recovery.
Here's a newsflash for you -- no one can ever be put in exactly the same position they were before they got a bad result. It's just not possible. Unfortunately this has been translated into "I can make some money out of it."
Look at the whole picture under the current scenario:
1. Mo paid $50 to get his coins in 15 days. He did not get them back in 15 days
2. PCGS cut his submission fee from $50 to $27.
3. Mo had a "bad" result as to timeliness.
4. PCGS had a "bad" result in not making the entire $50.
5. Mo only paid for what he got (IMO), but is still unhappy.
6. Whether Mo got what he paid for is irrelevant to PCGS if they want to keep Mo happy.
7. PCGS Customer Service should consider the circumstances and whether it is worth it to PCGS to go above the call of duty to make a customer happy.
Michael, there are two sides to the proverbial coin. You want to rant about big business beating out the little guy, but what about all of those little guys who try to beat out the big business? Every set of facts stands on its own merits, and generalities can't be used to address Mo's situation.
They also state "Note: Available services and turnaround times are subject to change." Does that language negate the "guarantee"? Perhaps it should state "....subject to change without notice."?
If I worked there, I would simply change the language for the 2, 7 and 15 day services, to remove the "guarantee" part.
My comments are based on a Collectors Club membership and service offered to them only.
Prior to April 1st we did not guarantee the service levels. I think this was missed while the debate raged regarding minimum coins and values.
We do print what the guarantee means on the new List of Services found on the website here. It's located on the bottom of the page the explanations on Crossovers, etc. I know I've posted this link in this forum a few different times since April 1st.
If the order was sent in prior to April 1st, the guarantee may not apply to this order and someone was trying to work out a compromise.
This is why I would like Morris to contact me and let me know who said it and when it was said so we (me) can clarify what's going on.
Carol
PCGS guarantees that grading will be done within 15 days. It's not. This is the service he paid for. Had he wanted it done in 60 days I reckon he would have paid for that. They couldn't do what he wanted and paid for, so they did what they wanted and he didn't pay for. The more I think about it the more I think he shouldn't have to pay anything.
Going back to Braddick's great McValue Meal example -
Morris goes to the drive thru, orders value meal, pays for value meal, drives up to window 2, they say sorry, not ready, come back later or go inside and wait or come back tomorrow, we can't even really tell you when you'll be eating, but i guess we'll charge you a little less when you do get to eat....
yeah, Mickey D's could really get popular if they started doing stuff like that.
z
With the April 1 fee increases, PCGS instituted guaranteed turn around times on some of the tiers. Michael's link above has the info.
There were also a couple of threads on the issue. See this one and particularly note my question and Carol's answer.
WH
Editted to add: Wow, a whole load of new posts while I was typing and searching for that thread.
1. A grade opinion of the coin, and a guarantee of that grade.
2. A protective holder for the coin.
3. That the service will be performed as agreed, i.e. timeliness.
Mo got 2 of 3, so why do you say he got nothing?
(Mo, sorry you are the subject of these posts, but it really has nothing to do with you. This is purely a customer service issue and an arguement on principle)
The guarantee only applies to coins submitted after 4/1. Since it is just the 15th of the month I doubt your submission was after 4/1 and therefore probably is not covered by the guarantee.
WH
Does "grades available" mean I can call for the grades or get them via the website, but the coins may take several additional days to reach me? (Seems reasonable, PCGS won't want to guaranty postal delivery in their 15 days)
If I submit 10 coins today under the 15 day guaranty and they are not ready and shipped in 15 days, what happens?
Do I get my submission back as quickly as humanly possible and my fee refunded?
Do I get bumped to economy and refunded the difference and now have to wait 60 days for my coins?
Do I coupons for free future grading, and under what service level and get my coins back as quickly as humanly possible?
There's a million scenarios, please explain what happens when the guaranty isn't met. I think that'll clear up all future questions in this regard.
If this has been answered in a previous post, sorry, but a refresher course would be nice.
Thanks in anticipation for your help,
Michael
If they start answering all (or even most) of your questions, the turnaround times will become even slower. Or is that your master plan?
Seriously, though, some of these questions would be excellent ones to pose to David on the Q&A forum - perhaps he would be more likely to see them there and hopefully, to reply.
I did submit them to David 2 weeks ago in the Q&A Forum, he never responded. Then last week I reminded him about the questions. He said he would get back to me with the answers, but still nothing. I figured this was a good thread in which to repost them. Perhaps Carol is a little more forthcoming then David and we can get an answer today.
Michael
Maybe Carol can cut through the red tape and get an answer before tomorrow hits!!!!
Michael
actually it would be like getting to window 2 and them saying "sorry we're all out of value meals so we're gonna give you this (insert disgusting adjective here) filet-o-fish and give you the difference in price"
he didn't want a damn filet-o-fish. would it be fair to offer him a filet-o-fish and his money back? i think so.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Regarding Gold/Platinum members only.
<< <i>Does "grades available" mean I can call for the grades or get them via the website, but the coins may take several additional days to reach me? (Seems reasonable, PCGS won't want to guaranty postal delivery in their 15 days)
<< <i> Specifically answered in Turnaround Times paragraph of the List of Services. Available means by phone, website or e-mail.
<< <i>If I submit 10 coins today under the 15 day guaranty and they are not ready and shipped in 15 days, what happens?
<< <i> You will receive a voucher equal to the number of coins on the order at the service level missed. Grades available does not include day shipped. ie: grades are available Friday afternoon (15th bus. day) and shipped on Monday, guarantee was met.
<< <i>Do I get my submission back as quickly as humanly possible and my fee refunded?
<< <i> Yes you get your order back as soon as possible. No your fees are not refunded. Please refer to your previous question and subsquesent answer.
<< <i>Do I get bumped to economy and refunded the difference and now have to wait 60 days for my coins?
<< <i> No, see your above question and answer (or should I say "Asked and Answered")
<< <i>Do I coupons for free future grading, and under what service level
<< <i> The service level matches the service previously missed.
<< <i> and get my coins back as quickly as humanly possible
<< <i> Once again, yes.
<< <i>There's a million scenarios, please explain what happens when the guaranty isn't met. I think that'll clear up all future questions in this regard.
<< <i> Only a million? it would be foolish to attempt to answer all the possible variations. If you have a specific scenario/incident please contact customer service directly for assistance.
<< <i>If this has been answered in a previous post, sorry, but a refresher course would be nice.
<< <i> I hope this has helped.
Carol
Besides, he'll think of another 20 ways to ask me the same question.
One thing I did forget (but it is in writing)
Guarantees are void during major shows in which PCGS attends. The definition of a major show is a show we are doing onsite grading.
Also, in writing - Days are business days and do not include major holidays in which PCGS may be closed.
Dealers should already know this so this is probably new information for our Collectors Club members.
If you are submitting under a guaranteed service level it is imperative that you write the service type on the outside of the package. ie: Walk, Exp Spec, Reg.
Something so we can easily identify those packages. We open packages in order of service when possible. If not, marked (we do keep track) your guarantee will not start until we open the package. In this age of backlog it's an important tip to remember.
Carol
Thanks a whole bunch, that really clarifies it. Okay so there aren't a million scenarios based upon your response.
I appreciate your effort and kudos to you, Mr.Hall and the whole PCGS Customer Service staff. Now this type of service requires admiration.
Guess I'll be submitting all my coins via guaranteed service levels.
Just one last question though --- (sorry Doug)
Let's say PCGS doesn't meet the guaranty and I get free vouchers for additional grading. What happens when the coins submitted under the free voucher for 15 day guaranteed service don't get turnaround in time?
Should I get free grading for life?
Thanks again,
Michael
<< <i>Morris goes to the drive thru, orders value meal, pays for value meal, drives up to window 2, they say sorry, not ready, come back later or go inside and wait or come back tomorrow, we can't even really tell you when you'll be eating, but i guess we'll charge you a little less when you do get to eat....
actually it would be like getting to window 2 and them saying "sorry we're all out of value meals so we're gonna give you this (insert disgusting adjective here) filet-o-fish and give you the difference in price"
he didn't want a damn filet-o-fish. would it be fair to offer him a filet-o-fish and his money back? i think so. >>
No, that would be like getting back PCI slabs when you ordered PCGS. He's getting back his COINS and he's getting them back in PCGS HOLDERS.
Where do you come up with him receiving what he didn't order? It is a TIME DELAY, not an issue of PRODUCT.
peacockcoins