Die states and Varieties are they worth a premium?

Max

A collector friend who recently lost his job offered me first crack at his collection of type copper and type gold. Nothing extraodinarily rare but some nice pieces nonetheless. I identified about a dozen coins I wanted and he was asking GS ask with 5-20% higher on most. He explained the coins were rare die states or varieties. Who cares I thought, I don't collect that way and know few who do. I don't collect silver dollars but he had over 100 Morgans, all top VAMs. Impressive after he explained but again I don't collect varieties.

I felt bad as he needed the money and this was my way to help a friend. I told him I would buy 14 coins and hold for one year if he promised to buy back at the same price when he got back on his feet. So it worked out as a loan w/o interest. H e agreed.

What he told me next I found interesting. He expressed his love for die states and how hard they are to come by and all. He also told me 99% of dealers could care less about rare die states or varities and the best way to sell is to other collectors who collect in this fashion. I thought selling was tough enough but selling by obscure die states or variety can be disasterous. Looking a several major coin dealer websites and I see none sell more than a token few by die state or variety.

Apparently people pay dear to buy these coins but selling them is an adventure. Anyone else experience this? Are there die state "clubs"?

EVillageProwler

Depending on the series, there are plenty of collectors who care about the die variety and state. And, as with all else involving sales, your friend needs to take his wares to the specialists who have a customer base who also care about such matters.

For Bust coinage, I can name several collectors and dealers who will care. I, for example, am one who will pay a premium for the right die variety/state of most silver Bust series. PM me with details...

As for other stuff, I may also be able to assist. Once again, PM me with details if you so desire.

EVP

Julian

There are many specialized clubs, Early American Coppers, John Reich Society for silver prior to 1838, Bust Half Nut Club, to name some. The advanced collectors in these series, as EVP said, are dedicated to their series and many collect the die varieties and the states of the various dies.

coinkat

There are Morgan VAMs that trade at significant premiums. Some are very rare and are even unknown in Mint State. Some examples would be the 1896-o micro o, 1900-o micro o and even the 1903-s micro s. The 1903-s micro s is not even close to being as rae as the other two, but to the best of my knowledge, I still think all three are unknown in MS. What you are doing is a very noble and considerate.

keoj

Max:

Great question. The answer is that it depends. I'll discuss the series that I collect, Trade Dollars. There is a premium for some of the varieties but not for others. Hows that for an overly simplistic view. As an example, Trade Dollars come if Type I and Type II obverse and reverse combinations. The business strike 1876 Type II/II is incredibly rare variety, very tough to find. I would definitely pay a premium for this coin. But, and this is a big but, only specialists in the series would do so. So it ends up being a classic supply and demand thing......a premium only exists if a market exists from collector demand. Another example in the Trade Dollar series is the 1876-CC DDR. This is possibly the most intense DD of any coin in any series, these coins always seem to command a premium over a "normal" coin. Some of the more minor DD coins, have no premium. I would pay 2-3X for a MS 76-CC DDR if I could find one but the demand is probably 5-10 people so the sales side could be a nightmare.

I presume that the same is true for VAM's in the Morgan series, some people will pay a permium for the coin and many will not.

Hope this helps.

keoj

shylock

Maybe the toughest part about selling varieties for the premium they deserve is most variety collectors prefer to cherrypick them themselves, without paying the premium. The thrill of the find is in their blood and it makes for a tough market to sell to.

cladking

Everything I collect, I collect by variety. Cherrypicking is the best way
to obtain these, but some are tough enough that one is pretty much
forced to buy them.

buster

You bet there is interest in collecting die varieties. I collect Early Bust Quarters by die variety and there is some fierce competition out there for nice pieces. If you don't move fast, someone is going to scoop them up. For example, I've paid $400-$500 for pieces in Good to Very Good on Rarity-6 and Rarity-7's. There will come a day when these scarce to rare die varieties will be in greater demand.

Bill

lathmach

The series I specialize in is the Seated Quarters. There are some recognized die varieties that bring very high premiums. There are others that are very rare but unknown to most collectors including Seated Quarter collectors. I have no problem paying the premium I feel a rare variety is worth.
The Seated coins as a series should always be examined closely before selling.

Ray

BillJones

There is interest in many die varieties, but not for all of them. Unless the varieties are really popular, "Ask" or 5 to 20% above "Ask" is no great bargain. Many dealers would gladly sell properly graded coins for 5 to 20% above ask.

YOU really need to have an interest in the varieties to make this work. Selling them for a profit to dealers is not easy.