SS Central America gold
Geoman
Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭
I just finished reading the SHIP OF GOLD book on the SS Central America. Very interesting! I heard that there is a second book out on it, like the sequel. Does anyone know what that is?
I have also tried to search the internet to see what the prices on a few of these coins are. But almost everything I saw, says "CALL" for price. So I did not find a single price. Also, I wanted to see a few pictures of these actual coins. Does anyone have one they bought, that can post a picture? Didn't PCGS slab these?
The only info I could find, was a search right here on the forum. Pulled up a few hits around last spring/summer. From the posts, I gather that was when the coins where finally, and slowly released. And it also sounds like they were over-priced, and have come down since. Has anyone bought one recently to verify this?
I am interested in this because I am a geologist, and I think it would be neat to won something like this. Gold has always been something I studied, and the various gold mines. I know I can't afford it now, but someday down the road, maybe...........
Anyone have any more info on this story at all???
I have also tried to search the internet to see what the prices on a few of these coins are. But almost everything I saw, says "CALL" for price. So I did not find a single price. Also, I wanted to see a few pictures of these actual coins. Does anyone have one they bought, that can post a picture? Didn't PCGS slab these?
The only info I could find, was a search right here on the forum. Pulled up a few hits around last spring/summer. From the posts, I gather that was when the coins where finally, and slowly released. And it also sounds like they were over-priced, and have come down since. Has anyone bought one recently to verify this?
I am interested in this because I am a geologist, and I think it would be neat to won something like this. Gold has always been something I studied, and the various gold mines. I know I can't afford it now, but someday down the road, maybe...........
Anyone have any more info on this story at all???
0
Comments
A lot of these pieces were sold to wealthy people who were less than numismatic experts. They paid too much and a lot of them are not selling these coins. The coins are around, but most dealers don't have enough of them to give firm quotes. That's why you get "quote" when you see ads.
Who slabbed them? PCGS? Do you have a picture?
That's another reason I would someday like to won one - great pedigree and history.
Also, what different denominations were available?
First is a well circulated bust half dollar with chop-marks. Way to cool not to own.
Second is one of four California fractional gold pieces found on the SS Central America. It is a BG-111, PCGS MS-65. Very historically important as it proves that they (Cal. frac. gold) actually circulated during this period.
njcoincrank
Until the Central America find, the primary source of type I double eagles in Unc was the Baltimore hoard of 1934.
link
I always enjoy a piece of nonfiction that reads like it was a novel.
Hardly, wealthy people are too smart to pour money into such nonsense. I have friends who don't know squat about coins and this is the only coin they ever bought and still have. They say, "saving it for the grandkids". Yeah so the grandkids can take it to Ye Ole Coin Shoppe and be given 60% of GS Bid.
People who buys coins from such venues [also Coin Vault] are not collectors but accumulators and dabblers. Just saw the Coin Vault offering 20 "rare and limited AU/BU Morgans" for $20/ea. I bet the same suckers who buy Franklin Mint crap buy this junk, "investing for their retirement".
As for the book it was interesting reading. As for the coins I say give wide berth as they are always up for auction at major shows and can hardly be classified as rare, they are the most common T1 $20 out there.
I paid $3400 awhile back. the last two MS62's I saw sell at Heritage auction went for about $4400 ea. If you don't mind spending more I've seen MS64's around $6K. Make sure you get all the original packaging (including gold insert) and don't buy one in an NGC holder, they are PCGS upgrades.
see what marketing and slick advertising can do,,,,,,,,,,,,,, along with a book
there are coins out there much more uncommon and also better looking and lots less and more collectible
and also not cleaned to the point where the coins do not have a good look due to all the copper ions taken out of the coins surface so it will look like that unnatural gold color for years and years
now the surface of these coins are basically pure gOLD WHEREAS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 90%
this gives the coins the right look for a geninune mid 19 century coin!
also if you had a silver or copper coin and you totally changed the content and surface of the coin it would never be allowed in a grading services holder
interesting
but i guess it is all about demand and certianly some extremely clever marketing groups created demand and that is not good or bad if you buy into it that is okie it is your money i hopes you makes good decisions!
but these common severely damaged coins drastically changed by technological processes eliminating all the copper ions out of the top layers surfafce of these coins changes them to not an original coin
i would not buy probsbly never as the coins are not original but totally damaged with their surface charactistics changed forever actually funny looking coins after the curation
but that doesnot count in the coin game waht matter is the creating of demand and so far there is demand and good placement into the hands of the more socieo economic secure of society one at a time for the most part as most of the advetrtising and marketing was in magazines like national geographic and the selling was for the history and romance of it which is okie
i can sell you very romantic common usa coin lets say the unpresentated 1943 steel cewnt from world war two
]
clean it to an unnatural surface and remove significant ions on the surface of the coin so it actually looks truly unnatural but bright and sexyand then get it slabbed by a major company and sell these coins for a huge profit even after the millions in marketing spent but place it one coin at a time with many non collectors who are well not poor people and sell it for the history and romance
which is okie
but please do not tell me what great coins they are not at the prices they sold for
i had three comapnies contact me some years ago about these coins
blanch
bm
dh
all thessw has the exact same coins in the exact same grades
the prices where vastly different
blanch ms 64 65 coins where hundreds more then the lowest of the price qouters b m
i called the guy back at blanchand told them i can buy the exact same graded same grade and company coins from bowers and merena for almost 1000 less in the same grades!
i told them i had the printed articales and i called all three to confirm prices and availability
i asked them why blanch were substancially higher prices/ when they guaranteed the same prices as everyone else
did the many who nbought theese coins get refunds?
they were well at least to me over the phone flabbergasted
and said they would look into it
on man i gots many other real true stoires but i will not post on here as i do not want to get flamed or banned
such is the coin game
sincerely michael
sincerely michael
now i am not saying the coins are good or bad just make sure you let the buyer beware when looking into buying coins
all the above did nothing legally wrong i must say if i had coins to sell i would love this marketing group to pron mote them!
this is waht they call themselves a marketing group so they were up front with everything
nothing wrong with that nuy waht you like and like wah you buy!
but man who did you think paid for all those hundreds of pages of ad copy in all the major rags for two years! built into the prices of the coins
i wonder what currently the seller sof these coins would affer to buy the coins back at in this hot market were good coins hAVE HAD AT THE VERY LEAST significant price gains/
would they buy the coins back at what you paid for as it is a hot market right now and these are supposoedly great coins as all the ads have said
i mean i never insulted you in my post?
there really is no reason to do this a personal attack calling my post of little substance not much said and that sounds like i wanted one.............lol
really uncalled for
and why say i wanted one of the coins? i never wanted one in my life i just got the promotions in the mail and got over 20 phone calls for them then i started loklking closer at all the huge differences in the prices for the same coins from three different comapnies printed literature...........lol
i got bugged so much i did look at the details and after i called blanch on this they never called me or contacted me again was i onto something?
well clearly you disagree with me and that is okie but no need to get personal and call someones post ignorant or like you said the politically correct notmuch said and then imply i wanted one
i mean i never insulted you in my opst nor did i make assumptions incorrect assumptions about you!
sincerely michael
and as an add-on i would say not many series have been as promoted as the central america coins not even close! with all the media coverage as they had several thousands or more to sell
also if i took any silver or copper or nickel 19 century coin mintstate and totally changed its surface charactistics like taking all the sub surface copper ions out of nickels to totally pure nickel coin on the surface or all the surface copper ions with a technical process totally changing the top surface of the silver coins to pure silver silver coins the coins not have a totally different look from other uncurated coins
i bet the services would not grade these coins
the central america gold coins do not look like a natural mint product anymore as their surfaces have been totally changed reworked very cleverly by not touching the coins so to speak just eliminating the top surface metal by eliminating all the copper so the top surface layer of these central america coins are now pure gold!
just like the central america gold coins now have surfaces that are totally unlike the look of any other twenty dollar gold piece of the era in the same grade or in fact has a totally different look then any mintstate twenty dollar liberty gold from 1850 to 1907 in mintstate i mean regular twenties still have their 90% gold 10% copper mixed thruoghout the coin whereas the central america twenties do not have the mix on the top layer of the coin they are now pure gold on the extreme top layer of the coin
sounds liked a processed coin to me and really changed the coin drastically
BUT HERE IS THE MAIN POINT AS BELOW
also jim --------------- please do not hate me i am ONLY THE MESSENGER remember in olden days when the messenger brought bad news to the king he was killed? well i think it is this way currently
please jim do not hate the messenger hate the game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
but such is human nature
Question >>>> how do the Brother Jonathon coins compare to the SS Central America? (I have a Brother Jonathon coin that I'm reasonably fond of, but no problem with a frank assessment!!!)
First of all, you bought that coin in a fairly safe grade. MS-62. As you have seen that grade and lower ones have held up bettere than the higher graded ones.
As the grades decrease, the issue of conserving them becomes obviously less critical.
I looked at a couple of MS-66 and 1 MS-67 SSCA $20 and passed. Price at the time was moreof an issue but the surface looked awful shiny to me. The trick will be jow well will the upper level mint state coins hold up?
I don't know but I would be quite a bit less concerned about your coin since you are not dealing with a near flawless surfaced coin.
Keep that in mind and do try to understand where michael appears to be coming from..
Me, I'd love to own an SSCA coin but they're a bit spendy for me. I'd also love to own a Brother Jonathan. I do own a couple of Binions and a Wells Fargo. Sometimes it's the historical significance that attracts us to certain issues. The bottom line is to collect what you like for your own reasons and everyone else be damned.
Just my two-cents (U.S.)
Cheers,
Bob
When the coins first came out, there was a big hulabaloo about PCGS slabbing curated/cleaned coins.
I too was a bit taken aback by what I felt was the hypocrisy of PCGS encapsulating and GRADING the coins without anotating the curation. I've come to accept that 1) the pedigree itself can be taken as an acknowledgement of their curation 2) they are historically significant in that they were lost for (X) number of years while enroute to today's equivalent of the fed.
Michael, like I said, just an observation, but your post does come across kinda' insulting and I don't even own one of the coins. Many people (collectors included) find the coins and other recovered items historically significant AND collectible. I wonder do you feel the same way about all recovered treasures (that is what they are considered)? But more importantly to me is: Are the statements you are making scientifically correct? I understand you don't like the process, but, is what you said just your (and many other COIN collectors) bias or fact?
Agentjim and others,
More power to you guys. Like I said, in the beginning I was opposed to the politics surrounding PCGS grading the coins, but I've come to understand the coins place in numismatic history. I still don't like the price or the assigning of grades; can't afford them.
wasn't meant to be a slam. Didn't see a lot of substance and I said it. Sorry. I get critiqued all the time call it a slam but I've learned to take it. Maybe they've been that promoted because they're THAT important ( it's made TV and they're making it into a movie). The 1933 $20 got alot of press shouldn't that get the promotional slam also? You did alot of research, it did appear you were interested...my mistake. In the end my final analysis is that you and many others seem to find every excuse to slam these important coins.
Since the population of the 1857-S increased significantly, something that would typically drive the price of the coins down, the sellers have to count on the promoting the historical significance of the coins as the prime factor for the high prices being asked for these coins. We've had a much publicized auction, a book, a couple of television specials and a soon to be released movie highlighting the story of the SSCA and yet all of the coins didn't go flying off the shelf. The prices being asked for these coins is much higher than other coins with other Double Eagles with similiar population numbers so the historical interest that brings in other buyers outside of the normal collecting community will have to remain strong in order to sustain or see an increase in the selling prices of these coins.
I'm not saying these things to bash the coins or the buyers but it's an attempt to put add some additional perspective.
P.S. One exception may be the very high end SSCA coins. Those coins in the MS-65 and higher may do better than the MS-64's and lower.
CG
I've got the "Ship of Gold..." and the subsequent Tommy Thompson Book, "America's Lost Treasure." It was published in 1998 by Atlantic Monthly Press. I've seen it in bookstores. I'm sure Amazon has it. Its LOADED with awesome pictures.
You might also try Monaco financial. They are marketers of a lot of this material; coins, nuggets, dust, etc. Check them out at
"shipofgoldinfo.com" You can download one of the most amazing pictures from their site to use as your desktop.
<< <i>Yes, actually Michael said a lot is his unique but always informative style.
Question >>>> how do the Brother Jonathon coins compare to the SS Central America? (I have a Brother Jonathon coin that I'm reasonably fond of, but no problem with a frank assessment!!!) >>
The bro jo coins have been "curated" as well, but I think they are a better value for the money. There are just over 100 Bro Jo coins graded MS 64, compared to well over 1000 SSCA coins graded 64. Both have great stories for sure, but which one would you rather own when they can be had at around the same price?