Colonial coinage popularity.

Max

I just was given a book on colonial coinage, more of a history book than a coin book but I am fascinated.

A quick search on ebay turns up lots for sale, any surprise, and the prices for some of these 200+ yr old coins seem like a good value given their history.

My questions are : Is this an obscure area of collecting? Why don't more people collect? How can a G8 chain cent go for thousands and a Mass. colonial in MS go for a few thousand?

Any dealers whgo specialize in this area?

FrattLaw

I always thought a great set would be a colonial cent from each original colony. I just don't have the funds to try it yet, still working on my Peace $, but will someday -- probably when these things cost a few thousand instead of a few hundred.

Michael

cladking

I agreee with Frattlaw, prices are unlikely to go down. These coins are hardly
unappreciated, but demand is likely to increase as time goes by based on the
relatively small demand and smaller supply which exist.

BillJones

There are many colonial coin collectors. The reason why there are not more is that the quality of many pieces is quite low. If you only want MS-65 coins, you will be disappointed with many colonials since most of them are worn and often have poor surfaces.

There are some colonial coins that are found in high grade like Virginia half pennies and a small number of Massachusetts cents. Most other pieces are rare in Mint State and very expensive.

In the colonial area a nice VF is often a WOW!!

MrEureka

Colonials are a great opportunity!

My suggestions for new colonial collectors:

The Colonial Newsletter

Colonial Numismatics Seminar

airplanenut

I love coins from the colonies- they are packed with history! Here's a tip I picked up:

British and similar coins, which circulated heavily in the colonies, are MUCH cheaper than the state issues, and just as, if not older- I just ordered a 1754 farthing (copper) and a 1711 sixpence (silver) for $20 shipped from a board member. If history's your game, there are lots of cheap darksides from the 1600s and up- many of which, especially the British issues, which circulated in the colonies.

Jeremy

lordmarcovan

Well, a Chain cent is probably scarcer than a lot of the colonial issues, and there is a wider collector base for it (i.e., larger demand, therefore larger price). Additionally, colonial coins are "foreign" coins to many U.S. collectors, for some strange reason, and they probably are not willing to undergo the reading necessary to learn about them. Besides, the prices, while often a bargain when viewed against the coins' historic characteristics, are stiff enough to deter the more casual collector.

I think the field being so specialized keeps a lot of would-be collectors out, and "frightened" of it (much as we see with ancient coins, which are even cheaper vis-a-vis their historic qualities). Also, a lot of the circulated colonial coins might look "nasty" to those who are not used to seeing them- porous, heavily worn, struck with cruder technology, whatever. It takes a discerning individual to appreciate them, and to realize the stories some of these coins have to tell.

You can get a full red UNC British (post-colonial) halfpenny from the late 1700's for under five hundred bucks. Usually WAY under five hundred bucks. Imagine trying to do that with a US copper of the same era!

DCAMFranklin

Here is a neat PCGS Colonial on Ebay being sold with NO Reserve:

1/2 Cent

Max

I think i am in love! Maybe time to toss out all the Buffalos, Franklins, Kennedy, etc. and get some "real" coins?

BillJones

Some of the Buffloes from the teens and '20s are "real coins," especially when the strike is half way decent. A decent strike is a REAL coin for dates like 1919-S, 1924-S and 1926-S. Well struck examples of these dates bring big premiums. I've learned that from some of the want lists that I have been filling.

barberlover

Just a guess on my part, but could the low prices on many of these coins be partly because that they do not have national legal tender status as a U.S. coin ?

Mark

I like colonial coins and have a few. I think there are a few reasons they are not in high demand:

1) The coins are "complicated." What's the relationship between an elephant token and a North Wales token and a long-worm shilling and .... You get the idea: Unlike (my beloved) Mercs, each colonial coin is a separate data point and I think that discourages some people.

2) Collecting the coins can be "complicated." By this I mean that a lot of collectors specialize in a particular series, eg, NJ Coppers collected by die state. It can be tough for a collector to break into this sort of collecting. For instance, I like colonials but I just can't bring myself to collect by die state.

3) Information about the condition of the coins is complicated to learn. As others (Singapore, I believe) have stated, PCGS's grading apparently tends to be more optimistic than other attempts at grading. So, a coin that by its PCGS grade might appear to be condition census may be far removed from the condition census.

But, I think that PCGS slabbing the coins is a GREAT thing. Before PCGS slabbed colonial coins, I worried that the (few) coins I bought might be counterfeit. Now I no longer worry--if PCGS erred and slabbed a counterfeit coin, they will make good. Plus I presume that PCGS won't slab many counterfeits. I think that if and when PCGS establishes a colonial coin registry, the demand for these coins might increase somewhat, which would be a shame for those of us who want to continue buying them every once in a while and who therefore like prices to remain low....

In the meantime, I can vouch for the fact that the Colonial News Letter (suggested by Andy) is exceptional. When it arrives, I literally drop everything to read it.

Mark

dorkkarl

i LOVE colonials.

warning: PLEASE do not be a fool & jump into the fray w/out learning A LOT about them BEFORE you buy any. this is a series where, far & away more than any other series, if you buy the plastic, you will be sorry. certified grades on these coins (pcgs, segs, pci) are way way out of whack.

i know, i know, sounds like just anohter slam on plastic, but BELIEVE ME, plastic co's trying to grade colonial coins like generics is foolish, & their grades are all over the place.

you must approach colonials slowly, if you want to get any kind of appreciaion out of it.

K S

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Some colonial coin dealers

Slabbed colonials - Bob Rhue out of Denver

Raw colonials - Anthony (Big Boy) Terranova

Over the next couple of years Stack's will be selling the John J. Ford collection of colonials.His collection of colonials will be one of the best ever assembled and is certainly a landmark collection.

Stewart Blay

dorkkarl

have bought & sold to both dealers you mentioned. both gentlemen are exceptionally sharp, but talk 'em down on their prices. also, visit tom-reynolds & maury shepherd

K S

coachleonard

When I got my first "Colonial" in 1984 ( a worn 1787 Connecticut Cent ) I was hooked. The crudity of many of these pieces is a large part of their charm to me. My pick for one of the most under-rated U.S coins is the 1773 Viriginia Halfpenny. You can get an average circulated piece for $30 or under. But these Virginia coppers were struck DURING the Colonial period ( as opposed to the Confederation Period ) and were the only official coins struck by Britain for the colonies.

Singapore

I'll just echo what someone else said above - before you buy any colonials research the heck out of them.

At a minimum, I would suggest you buy or borrow Breens complete encyclopedia for its comprehensive colonial section, and the following old auction catalogs:

Garrett 1, 3 and 4 (I think)
Norweb 1, 2 and 3
Roper
Eliasberg

These will give you a pretty good overview of the whats out there in what condition - and these old catalogs featured detailed lot descriptions filled with great information.

There are hundreds of other good sources but these are the must-reads in my opinion.

Take very great care before buying any slabbed colonial to understand that the PCGS grading is more lenient than traditional standards AND that population reports are representative of perhaps 10% of the total population of colonial coins and is therefore not to be confused with a comprehensive condition census.

Conder101

I think I can explain the major reason most collectors stay away from colonials in four words.





"Got a price guide?"


In two words.



"What's bid?"



Actually I think Mark nailed it. The coins ARE complicated, and the information IS complicated to learn. Not impossible, but it does take some effort and that is more work than what most of the casual collectors want to put into it. And face it most collectors are casual collectors. The limit of the studying they want to do about their coins is to read the number on the slab and see what the graysheet says the price should be.

And the method of collecting CAN be complicated but it doesn't have to be. While Mark mentioned collecting by die state, that would be a VERY advanced form of collecting and probably not more than one or two collectors use that method. What I think he meant was by die variety which is a popular method but by no means the only one. A beginner or someone who wasn't sure if die variety collecting suited them could probably start with just on copper from each of the colonies or states that struck them. A Connecticut, a Massachusetts (maybe both a cent and a half cent from here.), a New Jersey, a Vermont, and a Virginia half penny. Then one of each date from each state. Then maybe major types? VT landscape and bust type, CT bust left and bust right, baby head, hercules head etc. How about one from each of the mints? The choice is yours. No one says you HAVE to collect in any particular fashion.

As far as the "safety" factor with PCGS slabs, there aren't that many modern counterfeit state coins and those that do exist aren't that hard to spot. On the other hand there ARE contemporary counterfeits of the state coins and they are highly valued and collected right along with the regular series. (Conder tokens are the same way. The contemporary counterfeits are cataloged and numbered right along in the same book and collected with the genuine issues.) Some of the contemporary conterfeits are the most highly desired pieces in the series!