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Real or AT

BlackhawkBlackhawk Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭
Check out the coin in this auction link. Real or AT?

Toned Morgan
"Have a nice day!"

Comments

  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭
    Wow! Somebody sure jumped on that BIN. I think the toning is market acceptable. I like that blue & sea green on the rim. Did you buy the coin? image
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,275 ✭✭✭
    The AT coins tend to have toning on 100% of the coin (i.e. obverse and reverse); thus, this one looks real to me.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    obviously a-t, but sentiments echoed - probably m.a. (mkt acceptable) as well.

    personally, however, i do not like it

    K S
  • HigashiyamaHigashiyama Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The premium for the toning looks a bit on the high side.
    Higashiyama
  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    The toning is somewhat dull on the obverse with a prominent fingerprint. The reverse toning is quite spectacular. Both sides are naturally toned.

    I owned this coin for 5 years, until March 2002. I sold it at the Baltimore show to raise funds to acquire nicer pieces. The dealer I sold it to then passed it on to Bondman, who sold it on E-bay several months ago for twice what I sold it for. While the price was lingering at what I did sell it for, I was tempted to buy it back.
    I liked this coin, but it was in the bottom 10% in obverse eye appeal of the gem toned Morgans I own, so that's one reason I decided to sell it. But, it's a very lovely coin and I can assure you it is totally original, not just maket acceptable.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,328 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The toning is real, but is this piece worth 5 times "bid" because of the color? High grade 1881-S dollars are very common. Pieces with color like this are scarcer, but are they worth this much? I vote no.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • We are reaching the point in the toning market where this statement will probably hold water. And the statment is: The 79-s,80-s,81-s,82-s,83-o,84-o,85-o,86,87 dated coins with nice color or rainbows are becoming very common and not worth the huge permium which this coin brought. However the other dates such as the 82-o,84,88,89 coins with nice original rainbows or color toning such as this might well be worth that price. image
    In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    hey gemtone65, by a-t, i mean the color is not natural.

    but let's not fire up that argument again ... image

    K S
  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Dorkarl: I know what AT means. As I said in my post, I owned the coin for 5 years. I looked it over hundreds of times, and I've reviewed thousands of toned dollars. At no time did I have any suspicions that this coin was not original. The same was true of the dealer to whom I sold it, who is one of the most prominent dealers in this material. In comparison, you are making a judgment about the integrity of this coin solely based on the scan. You are entitled to your opinion, but I can tell you with as much certainty as is possible in these cases that you are wrong.
  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭
    Gemtone- Like I said above, I like the tone and find the toning market acceptable. However, I find the need to say that owning a 120 year old coin for 5 years, does not provide assurance that the tone is original. Just my opinion. image
  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Dcam Franklin: As you point out, it is difficult for a living person to provide assurance that a 120 year old coin coin is naturally toned, unless the toning took place while in his ownership. Even then of course, the value of such assurance would be small.

    However, after viewing thousands of toned dollars (I'm being conservative here), one can tell which coins have a high likelihood of being natural, like this one, and which ones have a low likelihood (any offered by A Swimmer or Cointone). And, the more one has a chance to look, observe, and study a particular coin the more confident we become in our assessment.

    (As an aside, not all such determinations are this easy. Note the discussion of the grape colored coin coin in another thread today. Here, the confidence level of making a correct assessment by someone knowledgeable in these matters is is is much lower. But, the untoned area on the obverse doesn't look natural to me, and the grape-purple color is suspicious.)

    Back to this coin: it just turned out to be a matter of chance that the subject coin here was in fact mine for 5 years. I studied it carefully during that time, and judge with 99% confidence that the coin toned in a manner we would consider natural. So, when Dorkarl opines here, based only on the scan (which barely shows the prominent fingerprint or dull finish on the obverse), he is subject to being disputed. And, in this case I can do that based on much more than a scan.

    But, in the end my response was not so much to embarass Dorkarl, although hopefully he will now think a little more carefully before judging a coin to be AT. Rather, I wanted mostly to educate readers about a question raised in a post when I was in the unusual position of knowing with high probablity what the right answer was, and to pass on that answer to those interested in improving their skills at differentiating AT from NT.
  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭
    Gemtone- A very well thought out response. I'm in complete agreement. Including the comments about the other coin. The exact same problems with that coin were a bother to me. I didn't have anything positive to say about the coin, so I said nothing. However, when the owner attempted to jump on a Member's comment with the ANACS holder as overwhelming evidence that the poster was wrong, well that was too much.
  • Whether it's AT or not, a $75 dollar coin went for $425 - a $350 toning premium!

    LOL
    Coppernicus

    Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>However, when the owner attempted to jump on a Member's comment with the ANACS holder as overwhelming evidence that the poster was wrong, well that was too much. >>



    DCAM,

    WTF are you talking about, idiot? I did no such thing and you know it. Like you actually have any idea what you're talking about, anyway. All you do is parrot the real collectors around here. You have zero credibility on anything coin related, and everybody at this forum knows it.

    Friggin' troll.

    Russ, NCNE
  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>However, when the owner attempted to jump on a Member's comment with the ANACS holder as overwhelming evidence that the poster was wrong, well that was too much. >>



    DCAM,

    WTF are you talking about, idiot? I did no such thing and you know it. Like you actually have any idea what you're talking about, anyway. All you do is parrot the real collectors around here. You have zero credibility on anything coin related, and everybody at this forum knows it.

    Friggin' troll.

    Russ, NCNE >>




    Russ- Go spew your venom elsewhere!

    I know exactly what I'm talking about. That's why I'm not in ownership of the AT coin.


    image
  • gemtone65gemtone65 Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    Dcam; congratulations on a very clever riposte to the highly inappropriate comments from Russ.

    Regards, Gemtone65
  • DCAMFranklinDCAMFranklin Posts: 2,862 ✭✭
    Thank you, Gemtone. image
  • islemanguislemangu Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭
    What a price! after seeing this I:m going to throw my better rainbow 81-s out there and see what happens.










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