The most awesome Lincoln I've ever seen

FC57Coins · April 5, 2003 7:06AM

1909VDB NGC MS65* - Let the picture do the talking

wingedliberty · April 5, 2003 7:14AM

I am speechless.

and I agree with you.

Brian.

Striker · April 5, 2003 7:15AM

That is pretty cool.

Russ · April 5, 2003 7:15AM

Would you believe I have a 1909VDB similar to that in at NGC right now?

Russ, NCNE

byergo · April 5, 2003 7:18AM

My god! That is one awesome coin!

Tassa · April 5, 2003 7:25AM

Wow.

Clankeye · April 5, 2003 7:48AM

Clank to Frank: it's beautiful.

pmh1nic · April 5, 2003 7:50AM

Frank

Beautiful coin. Where did you find it?

Iwog

Check out the luster and the hot and cold areas on the toned monster

.

braddick · April 5, 2003 8:30AM

<< I am speechless.

and I agree with you. Brian. >>

Lobster bib for one, please.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · April 5, 2003 8:55AM

Why would NGC grade this artificially toned Lincoln cent.

Shake and Bake......This coin is TOTALLY unnatural

If this forum is to educate then I will flame this coin.If it is graded brown then where is the brown?If it is graded red then someone is color blind.It is artificially colored.The mint does not produce coins in any way or package that will produce these colors.

Stewart

LucyBop · April 5, 2003 8:57AM

I wondered what your opinion would be Stewart..... I don't know much about at on copper and wouldn't know one if it bit me.... so i give into your expertise in coppers, but this coin sure is pretty to me....

MrEureka · April 5, 2003 8:58AM

Why would NGC grade this artificially toned Lincoln cent.

Come on, Stewart, you know you can't condemn OR praise the coin based on that scan!

coppercoins · April 5, 2003 9:01AM

<< Why would NGC grade this artificially toned Lincoln cent.

Shake and Bake......This coin is TOTALLY unnatural

If this forum is to educate then I will flame this coin.If it is graded brown then where is the brown?If it is graded red then someone is color blind.It is artificially colored.The mint does not produce coins in any way or package that will produce these colors.

Stewart >>

It couldn't have been said better. No Lincoln cent will turn these colors naturally. Looks like someone puked crayon on it. Yuck!

Russ · April 5, 2003 9:02AM

<< Why would NGC grade this artificially toned Lincoln cent. >>

Well, PCGS graded this one (MS65RB):

So, apparently purple is not unheard of on early Lincolns.

Russ, NCNE

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · April 5, 2003 9:03AM

Come on Andy

We can both MANUFACTURE these colors......or should I say we can place an order for as many as we want to buy.I will say that probably both you and I could NOT get them graded.

Stewart

LucyBop · April 5, 2003 9:05AM

I also wondered about your opinion coppercoins, two experts in copper smell a rat on this one.....
Tell me, would these colors be possible in a penny pulled from a original mint set, the ones holdered in the sulphur rich cardboard?
I bought a really killer 54s today with some nice rainbowish toning, i only paid 70 cents for it and I love it!

coppercoins · April 5, 2003 9:06AM

A bad day with acetone overkill will cause this...and hairlines, etc. The natural degradation of the red surface of copper based coins is brown.

MrEureka · April 5, 2003 9:07AM

We can both MANUFACTURE these colors......

Speak for yourself.

But the real issue is that the coin CANNOT look exactly like that scan. You know NGC wouldn't have graded it if the colors were that electric. Scans lie. But we can all enjoy that the coin/scan is cool looking, whatever it really is.

LucyBop · April 5, 2003 9:09AM

<< The natural degradation of the red surface of copper based coins is brown. >>

But suppose this isn't degradation but a reaction with something (sulphur + O2) that caused a very thin oxide to grow resulting in this type of toning?

braddick · April 5, 2003 9:10AM

<< A bad day with acetone overkill will cause this...and hairlines, etc. The natural degradation of the red surface of copper based coins is brown. >>

But NOT the color visible in the photo of the obverse, 10:00- 2:00

merz2 · April 5, 2003 9:15AM

FC57Coins
While admittedly not a toned copper collector,that coin is awsome.As a Lincoln man you can see the strike is exceptional,even trough the toneing.

coppercoins · April 5, 2003 9:17AM

Think what you want, buy what you want...that coin is baked. It's not original. Sulphur impregnated albums would cause a halo of toning, the whole coin wouldn't turn bright purple like that. MS70 will do that to a coin, as will acetone to a degree. I know, I've tested both and got similar results (out of common coins that were subsequently spent).

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · April 5, 2003 9:21AM

Russ

Why don't you send the coin back to HRH with the bill of sale?Guaranteed resubmission

We will start a new color NGC ms 65* Purple

For the education of forum members,there is a purplish toning that sometimes occurs naturally on copper before the natural oxidation will make the copper coin brown.

Stewart

LucyBop · April 5, 2003 9:21AM

interesting.... I want to learn about toned lincolns. I am finding I am liking toned coins of all demonination... And the info here is useful for me.

Russ · April 5, 2003 9:26AM

<< Russ

Why don't you send the coin back to HRH with the bill of sale?Guaranteed resubmission >>

I no longer own the coin but, even if I did, I see no reason to send it back for guarantee. PCGS graded it, therefore it is unquestionably real toning. They never make mistakes with toned coins either way. They are always correct in their assessments, and it would be foolhardy for any of us to question their judgement in these matters.

Russ, NCNE

MrEureka · April 5, 2003 9:27AM

I want to learn about toned lincolns. I am finding I am liking toned coins of all demonination

Poor Frankie! I hope he can handle this devastating blow!

lazeroo · April 5, 2003 9:31AM

all I can say is very cool.

thanx for sharing.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · April 5, 2003 9:35AM

Russ

Every grader at PCGS makes mistakes concerning toning.That is why they charge us so much money to grade our toned coins.But I have to say as a team they are pretty good MOST of the time.

Stewart

p.s. Even I sometimes make mistakes but seldomly

Russ · April 5, 2003 9:38AM

<< Every grader at PCGS makes mistakes concerning toning. >>

Not true. They are always 100% correct. How dare you question that?

Russ, NCNE

FC57Coins · April 5, 2003 9:52AM

Oh ye of little faith.

While I can appreciate neysayers in the crowd, I can tell you that everyone that has seen this coin in person has oooh'd and aaah'd ad infinitum. So NGC thinks it's real, but a couple of you guys think it's not - no sweat - it's owner loves it and it is a work of art - So I guess we don't have to worry about it being sold to any unsuspecting newbies!

Frank

MadMarty · April 5, 2003 9:54AM

<< << Every grader at PCGS makes mistakes concerning toning. >>

Not true. They are always 100% correct. How dare you question that? >>

But they do make mistakes on Cameo!!! Right Russ!!!

Russ · April 5, 2003 9:57AM

<< But they do make mistakes on Cameo!!! Right Russ!!! >>

Yeah, but if you give them another try they usually get it right the second time.

Russ, NCNE

LucyBop · April 5, 2003 10:04AM

they don't make mistakes on cam or dcam, I told russel over and over that my 62 was a dcam! He didn't listen.

MadMarty · April 5, 2003 10:07AM

<< russel >>

Those are the potatos me and Frank the pooch tone coins with, right???

Russ · April 5, 2003 10:09AM

<< I told russel over and over that my 62 was a dcam! He didn't listen. >>

They do screw up sometimes.

Russ, NCNE

doops · April 5, 2003 4:06PM

<< 1909VDB NGC MS65* - Let the picture do the talking

>>

frank, i will pay GIGANTIC money for that coin, put me on it pm

AtcBob · April 5, 2003 9:58PM

For the naysayers,

Do we know every possible combination of elements and material this coin could have been in contact with over the years? Do you know the chemical reaction to every one of the possibly elements it could have been in contact?
Before we so quickly jump the AT bandwagon, let's give the benefit of doubt.

The fact is we don't know all possibly combinations of elements this coin could have been exposed to. Is it possibly for the grading service to mistake this coin as authentic from AT? Possible. But, just because you have not ever seen anything like it, does not for one minute mean it can't be.

Just playin devil's advocate

Russ · April 6, 2003 5:03AM

It occurs to me that many define artificial toning as "I've never seen that color combination before, therefore it must be bogus."

Russ, NCNE

baccaruda · April 6, 2003 5:15AM

PCGS graded it, therefore it is unquestionably real toning. They never make mistakes with toned coins either way. They are always correct in their assessments, and it would be foolhardy for any of us to question their judgement in these matters.

jeez Russ, you dating Wallstreetman now or something?

Russ · April 6, 2003 5:17AM

It's true. They are never wrong.

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin · April 6, 2003 5:32AM

Maybe it has been "windexed"?!! Pffff......ffffff

Legend · April 6, 2003 6:11AM

Without seeing the coin in person it is very hard to tell (with certainty) if the coin is AT (or enhanced) or not.

I do suspect the color has been enhanced.

While I strongly HATE people who artifically color coins, I do believe that if the job is done good enough for the grading services (who right now are paranoid of AT coins), then its okay to buy the coin-depending on the coin and the look. I still try to stay away from AT'd coins-unless my jaw hits the ground first!

I make that comment based on the arguement it is impossible to tell when AT toning begins, and natural re-enhancement ends.

A warning for the uniformed though: The MAJORITY of enhanced coins DO sooner or later turn. I strongly suspect this coin (if it really looks as bold as the image), will be a dark brown in 2-3 years. Copper is the WORST Type of coin you EVER want to buy if it has been enhanced.

stman · April 6, 2003 10:55AM

<< While I strongly HATE people who artifically color coins, I do believe that if the job is done good enough for the grading services (who right now are paranoid of AT coins), then its okay to buy the coin-depending on the coin and the look. I still try to stay away from AT'd coins-unless my jaw hits the ground first! >>

Well there we have it. Well thought out good advice.

The most awesome Lincoln I've ever seen

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