If it were available and you could afford the price, would you buy the 1849 $20?

originalisbest

Mintage of 1, so there's no mistaking it; but I believe as part of the National collection in an era where many of the pieces were wiped free of tarnish by a well-meaning curator, it is a technically flawed piece. (I think, never having viewed it.) Yet it is the only one, and even J.P. Morgan was unsuccessful in his attempts to buy it.

So if it did come up for sale, would its impaired nature inhibit what the piece would fetch (assuming it went to auction), or would the sheer rarity and significance of it overshadow its flaws? After all, I believe the unique 1870-S $3 was ex-jewelry.

MrEureka

I saw it under glass, graded it 63, and would pay $5 million for it in a heartbeat.

construct

I don't think the damage to a unique coin like the 1849 double eagle would impare its ability to command a unique price--especially since it is the first year of issue.

MrEureka

There's a great color photo of the Smithsonian piece in the Akers book on gold patterns. One's for sale on eBay:

eBay

You can also see the coin on the Smithsonian's site:


Smithsonian

construct

It looks that good in the pic, and you'd give it only a 63?!! Geez!

originalisbest

Thanks for the links and discussion guys, guess I could've looked around a bit for images of it!

I would concur with Construct in that, call it what you will, MS-63, very nice.78, scruffy/mint++, it really doesn't matter when the piece is one-of-a-kind.

Of course, this is not taking into account extreme things happening, if the piece were unfortunate enough to be in a fire, etc. and got scarred, that would probably affect the desireability. But still the price would be out of my league!

MrEureka

...but the 70-S $3 would have to be awfully cheap before I'd put it in my collection.

originalisbest

Would agree with that sentiment; there is only one known but, it's not as historically significant, and it is ex-jewelry I believe.

Max

I am curious, why would someone pay say $ X million for a one of a kind coin when they could use the same funds and buy highest grade type [MS65 Chain, MS64 Flowing Hair $, etc.] all day long with those millions?

Kind of a related question: I own many MS & PR64 or better coins but lately I find myself more attrated to XF-AU coins. I like the used look and don't like the shiny new looking coins I now have. Anyone else find themselves trading down for "eye appeal"?

originalisbest

I have to agree with you here as well. If I had only 5 mil to spend () and that's the amount I'd need to get the 1849 $20 - I'd pass, and instead build a great collection of, heck, every single type coin the US has produced (and a "perfect" AU chain cent I'd just as soon have as a gem brown MS, for example), probably get some significant and beautiful ancients, build a mint (or just real nice) set of all the early redbooks, get nice medals, etc., etc., etc.

But if I had 20 mil to spend () perhaps I'd get the '49 $20, and then the rest of those things.

Conder101

Actually the mintage was 2 plus a gilt copper piece. One went into the Smithsonian (Actually the Mint collection at the time) The second gold specimen was given to Treasury Secretary William Meridith. The gilt copper piece was acquired by an influencial collector, R Coulton Davis. The Davis piece was last seen in 1892 as part of the Woodside collection. The Meridith piece was last known to be in the collection of Capt John Haseltine. (Capt Haseltine and his father-in-law William Idler were coin dealers in Philadelphia and they had excellent back door contacts at the mint that funneled all kinds of rarities, patterns, and fantasy pieces through their hands. For example most, if not all, of the 1884 trade dollars, all of the 1885 trade dollars and all but one of the Class III 1804 dollars originally entered the marketplace through them. (The one 1804 dollar that doesn't trace its pedigree back to them was Mint Director Linderman's personal speciman.)

There is some speculation that the Meridith speciman may have later been sold to Stephen Nagy but this is not known for sure.

So some day it just might be possible that an 1849 double eagle WILL turn up in the market.

BillJones

To me the 1849 double eagle is more desirable than the 1933. If you add in the 1933 double eagles that are in the National Collection, it's rarer.

MadMonk

I'd have to have a billion dollars for it to be a financially prudent buy and hold, and then yes of course.

DeepCoin

When you venture into the realm of one and only coins such as this one (The Smithsonian one will never be for sale), you get a different set of collectors who may or may not have serious coin collections (volume that is). A unique item enters a whole different area, especially when you are talking million dollar acquisition cost.

If I had Bill Gates money, I would have great fun buying rare coins and build a major collection of rarities. Someone like that can move the market by themself. So the answer for me is, yes I would buy that coin.

tradedollarnut

Mintage of 1, so there's no mistaking it; but I believe as part of the National collection in an era where many of the pieces were wiped free of tarnish by a well-meaning curator, it is a technically flawed piece. (I think, never having viewed it.) Yet it is the only one, and even J.P. Morgan was unsuccessful in his attempts to buy it.

It doesn't really float my boat. There are other coins less rare but more spectacular I'd rather use the money on.


So if it did come up for sale, would its impaired nature inhibit what the piece would fetch (assuming it went to auction), or would the sheer rarity and significance of it overshadow its flaws? After all, I believe the unique 1870-S $3 was ex-jewelry.

Yes, the fact that it is not a superb gem would limit the price it brings - somewhat. [ie: if it were MS68, it would bring more money at auction].

EVillageProwler

If I had several million $$ to spend on the 1849 double eagle, I'd allocate the money elsewhere:

* 1MM for a "special" fund for those remaining high-priced coins I need to round out my primary sets.
* 1MM for a modest NEW house for my Mom, my Dad, and me. (That's at least 2 houses, since my parents are divorced.)
* The balance I'd save, invest, or whatever...
* I'd try to get a job with a respected rare coin firm so I can drool over cool coins and have an income to afford the occasional modestly-priced purchase.

EVP

topstuf

Only if I could find a REALLY nice bezel and chain.
............................................................................

Seriously, that happened to me years ago. I had just purchased a superb collection of Saints. Back when "gems" (pre slab days) were $800, a guy came up to my table and asked for the BEST $20 Saint I had.

I proudly showed him my jewel of the lot and he promptly held it down against his belt. I interjected that there was no reason to pay that kind of money for a belt buckle, but he shut me down with, "Ah only buys tha BEST!" to which there is really no reply.

So, the best coin I had for the show is now residing in a belt buckle somewhere. Probably a nice VF - scratched by now.

snif.

dorkkarl

items like that DO NOT even need a grade. who cares? what are you gonna do, whip out the old red-book, look for the column w/ that grade & chekc out the price?

actually i wouldn't buy that particular coin regardless, just doesn't appeal to me. but i'd gladly by any 1802 half-dime (for example) that i could afford, regardless of problems, holes, bent, whatever. WHO CARES on a very rare coin? your buying the COIN, not the grade

K S

Zerbe

Okay, my chance to throw around the 'Imaginary Millions'. MREureka
posted a link to THE SMITHSONIAN. On that same page right below the 1849, is another coin labeled "MASTERPIECE". If I were allowed to only own one coin in my lifetime it would be this exact coin. This is the exact piece given to President Teddy Roosevelt by Saint Gaudens. It was in the Roosevelt family until 1967 and it looks to be 'Pristene'. This 1907 Ultra High Relief is my all time favorite coin.
Best design, very high mint state condition, presented by the sculptor/designer to the then, President Of The US. There, I just spent 2 Million and it feels good.

flaminio

The 1849 double eagle? Oh, I dunno -- whose slab is it in ?

Conder101

I don't know who wrote the "information" about the 1907 double eagle on the Smithsonian page but it isn't right. Roosevelt's ultra high relief was sold at public auction within the past ten years or so, and there is absolutely no way that that coin could have been given to Roosevelt, or anyone else, by Saint Gaudens. Saint Gaudens died in early December 1907 before any of the double eagles were ever struck.