Guess the Grade (1875CC Double Eagle)

VicPortland · March 31, 2003 1:31PM

I've owned this coin for around 10 years (currently resides in an old ANA slab). There are a couple of copper spots on the Obverse, but the coin also has nice proof-like surfaces which I think more than make up for it. What do you think this would grade if I sent it in to PCGS or NGC?

oreville · March 31, 2003 4:09PM

PCGS and NGC would grade this AU-50 or AU-53 from what I can see of this scan.

hughesm1 · March 31, 2003 5:19PM

I think it would grade XF45 maximum, probably XF40. There's a bit too much wear in the hair on back and front. The copper flecks and that big gouge in the left field don't help it either.

Mark

Higashiyama · March 31, 2003 6:32PM

Interesting example! Isn't it mint state, with a soft strike? I don't see any evidence of wear on the reverse. I might guess MS62.

darktone · March 31, 2003 8:32PM

Higashiyama- I am with you it looks like a mint state coin to me also but I will refrain from a numerical grade because I can't really tell from the picture. To me the copper spots are a neat part of these coins and don't hurt the value for me. mike

pmh1nic · March 31, 2003 9:19PM

Obverse XF-45, reverse AU-55 so I cut it down the middle to AU-50

BillJones · March 31, 2003 11:16PM

This coin should grade AU-50 assuming that there is some mint luster in the fields. I've seen far worse Liberty $20 gold coins from this era in AU holders. Some of them looked like they had been put through a meat grinder.

Higashiyama · April 2, 2003 6:44AM

VicPortland -- what is the current grade of this coin?

relayer · April 2, 2003 7:15AM

I'd guess AU-55. Not much rub and just a few dings

RYK · April 2, 2003 7:17AM

I would guess AU-53 to 55 based on the scans. The reverse seems very nice.

coinkat · April 2, 2003 8:30AM

This is a tough call based on the scan. I would much rather grade this one in person. I tend to agree that the obverse is not that strong of a strike. If the coin has PL surfaces, other than the normal contact marks that are common for a CC $20, whatever hairlines are on the coin are not that apparent from the scan... and I would think that the PL surfaces would amplify the hairlines, if they were present. If the coin has nice PL surfaces with reasonable lustre and has not been dipped, I would tend to say AU55 or perhaps even AU58.

VicPortland · April 2, 2003 12:43PM

Tough crowd.

The coin grades AU58. I think I will leave it in the ANACS slab.

Thanks for the guesses!

BillJones · April 2, 2003 9:19PM

If you think we are a tough crowd, wait until you try to go out and sell a coin to the dealers on a bourse floor. It takes experience to know who will pay a fair price for some things, and who won't. It also takes a thick skin that can stand up to more rejections than acceptances.

Generally ANACS grades are little loser than NCG and PCGS, especially in the Mint State grades. Notice that I used the word GENERALLY. Everything has be examined on a coin by coin basis.

dorkkarl · April 2, 2003 9:26PM

my grade was ms-61 prior to seeing the correct grade.

however, the digi-pic makes it tough.

K S

darktone · April 2, 2003 9:39PM

I would submit it to NGC or PCGS. I think grading on gold has become looser in recent times. Also I quit using ANACS a few years ago because they were under grading my gold rather consistently. Let us know how it turns out if you decide to get it graded by PCGS or NGC. mike

VicPortland · April 3, 2003 1:29PM

Thanks all.

If I try for a crossover, I will let everyone know how it turns out.

oreville · April 3, 2003 4:54PM

Vic:

Being that I was the first to stick my neck out and guess at that grade, I hope to also have the last word as well.

Before attempting a crossover to NGC or PCGS, I would show this coin to David Hall at one of the major shows when he offers the free visual inspection deal that has become quite popular and ask him is there any chance of a crossover even at a PCGS AU-55.

ANACS is not all that bad a service for gold especially in the circulated grades and would be very careful about spending anymore money seeking a crossover. This is certainly a better date and higher AU grades are not easy to attain for this coin.

I stand by my AU-50 to 53 grade as what I believe PCGS and NGC would slab it at. There is nothing wrong with an AU-58 grade in an ANACS holder since it is still in the AU range. This AU grading of 50/53/55/58 can get quite overdone especially IF values don't change all that much.

Contact me regarding any updates on that other matter we discussed.

Higashiyama · April 3, 2003 7:05PM

Oreville -- please add a few additional notes to your last word! I'm extremely interested in your opinion, because it is clearly well thought out -- but, I don"t see any trace of wear on the reverse. Am I missing something? Wouldn't an AU53 coin show fairly notable wear on the reverse as well?

dorkkarl · April 3, 2003 8:13PM

like i said, i guessed ms-61, but if it's au-58, that's supposed to indicate, not so much wear, but luster breaks on the high points - somethign that might well not show up in a digi-pic. did you find any minute luster breaks?

K S

coinkat · April 4, 2003 12:55AM

I don't think the opinions offered reflect a tough crowd, it just reflects the limitation of grading the scan and not the actual coin. Perhaps it is worthy of a crossover or even a crack out resubmission. If the coin is original, that will help. Good luck

oreville · April 4, 2003 11:42PM

Higashiyama: I felt the coin was in the lower to mid AU range because of exactly what dorkkarl said plus a little more. The luster appears to be subdued and on a coin like this with as many toning problems indicates to me a luster impairment of a significant kind. Indeed, wear does not appear to be an much of an issue since AU-53 0r even AU-55 coins can indeed display very minimal wear which is hard to discern in a photo just loss of luster. Also this is a much tougher date and mint state grades will not be given out easily due to the "liability" factor. Had it been a common date coin it could have been a closer call!!!

Now it is entirely true that I am guessing at the grade since only a personal inspection will suffice.

The coin is very softly struck, and yes fairly bag free looking and normally when the die is very aged the coin then will have one of two kinds of look if truly original and not circulated ....a creamy luster or a blinding brilliant luster if die is well polished. I see neither here. The flash of this coin is not showing through in the scan/pics.

Also coinkat brings out another good point...in the absence of a better scan I could not vote for a mint state grade since the luster did not appear to be mint state luster so I limited myself to AU grades and with the toning variations of the coin, a low to mid AU at that.

Apparently ANACS seems to agree with most of the sentiments here but obviously without better pics or scans or personal inspection, we cannot be sure why they agree as to its AU status.

oreville · April 4, 2003 11:56PM

Higashiyama: Never let a nice looking reverse throw you off on grading type II (or type I) Liberty $20's!!!!!!!!!!!

The most important side grading wise is the obverse.

I have many type II liberties with MS-62/63 reverses and are limited to AU-55 and AU-58 grades by PCGS and NGC becuse of luster impairment on the obverse. Interestingly, I am also working on a grading set of PCGS type I and II $20 liberties from EF-40 to MS-67. Really interesting!! But it is on hold while my daughter goes to College starting this fall.

Of course, I think they are real good buys and someday the grading services will grade these coins just like the old AU-58 $10 Liberties are now being reslabbed as MS-61 and 62's!!

Guess the Grade (1875CC Double Eagle)

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