AU58 versus MS65 -- coins with little difference in eye appeal?

Higashiyama

Which coins -- technically graded AU58 -- may have the eye appeal of a gem MS coin?

I would suggest the Panama Pacific $1, and would be curious to hear other thoughts.

KlectorKid

Gold indian 2.5 and 5 dollar coins.

wallstreetman

Your confused as to what eye appeal is! A grader is not suppose to take the design of a coin into consideration! Eye appeal comes down to toning and luster and thats a matter of opinion. Eye appeal should never sway a grader more than 1 pt, this is when he is stuck in the middle, he will go possitive because of the appeal. IMHO, I dont think it should be considered at all, its a matter of personal preference!

Rittenhouse

Since you say "technically graded", to me that would mean the grading standards in force from say 1984 - 1990. Just about all AU58s, or "super-sliders", of that time had great eye-appeal & looked MS64 - 65 EXCEPT for a slight rub on the high points. But since these are now all routinely slabbed 63 or better, I guess the point is moot. Today's AU58 is yesterday's average AU55 at best & I generally see what we used to call XF/AU liners as AU58.

nwcs

I would say almost all. As the graders told us in the grading class, an AU 58 is merely a MS-64 with light rub.

BillJones

I would narrow the question down to the grades AU-58 and MS-63. An MS-65 coin should have more eye appeal than an AU-58. If it doesn't, I'd question that it is an MS-65.

cosmicdebris

Any coin can have a technical grade Mint State and still not look as good as the same coin in AU58 with great eye appeal.

BillJones

An ugly coin cannot be an MS-65 IMO.

wallstreetman

Toning has knowing to do with the grade, all you Tone Heads can give it up! The only time it does, is when the toning causes pitting, then your slab is soft plastic and your label has NO GRADE!

jom

On the subject at hand, ANY coin from ANY series can possible have a coin like this.

I want to respond to several posts in here though:



<< <i>Gold indian 2.5 and 5 dollar coins. >>



Not anymore. Most rubbed Indian gold is mostly in >62 holders now.



<< <i>IMHO, I dont think it should be considered at all, its a matter of personal preference! >>



I totally agree but unfortunately it's NOT happening. The services are not only telling us the technical grade they are now telling us was is eye appealing.



<< <i>Today's AU58 is yesterday's average AU55 at best & I generally see what we used to call XF/AU liners as AU58. >>



Yup. See my response above.



<< <i>An MS-65 coin should have more eye appeal than an AU-58. If it doesn't, I'd question that it is an MS-65. >>



Well, yeah, but it is possible to have a coin so nice but rubbed. It IS possible. But it's a very good chance that coin IS graded MS64 if not MS65 and, hence, ignoring the wear.

The problem here is not the services or anything it's just that QUALITY is not the same thing as GRADE. Grade is supposed to be a description of a coin whereas the quality of the coin is something that not only is personal it's based on other factors than the technical grade.

jom

Higashiyama

"A grader is not suppose to take the design of a coin into consideration"

WSM -- the design is a significant part of the point. For some issues, because of the design, it is very difficult to distinguish slight wear from minor weakness of strike. This is why some coins that may technically grade AU58 appear to be strong mint state coins.

Also, eye-appeal is central to the issue. An AU58 coin with very slight rub but exceptional eye appeal may be confused, even by experts, as a strong mint state coin.

To restate the question in somewhat more concrete terms -- if someone is playing a crack-out game, which coins are most likely to flip between AU58 and MS64 holders. Another example might be walking liberty halves.

crito

To restate the question in somewhat more concrete terms -- if someone is playing a crack-out game, which coins are most likely to flip between AU58 and MS64 holders.

You'd be better off looking at specific dates within a series that are known to come weakly struck. However, seems PCGS and NCG use AU58 more for UNC details but lightly cleaned coins these days. Hairlines will keep a coin out of 64, and that's probably where the AU58-MS63 "wheel" comes from.