LOTS OF COMPLAINING ABOUT GRADING

Steve

I am somewhat saddened to see so much complaining on this board about grades assigned by PCGS. People list their results and complain that PCGS has undergraded or bodybaged their coins. I personally am happy that PCGS is tough or at least is perceived to be tough on giving out grades. Now it is true that I am just a collector and not an investor or seller in coins. I don't go out and buy coins for the purpose to then get PCGS to give me a higher grade so I can sell the coin and make alot of money. My coins are being collected to be included in the Set Registry with a goal of COMPLETION, not a goal of HIGHEST GRADE. I realize I am probably in the minority in this thinking, but somehow it seems that people are more interested in how much money they can get for their coins rather than enjoying the pride of owning the coin. Perhaps the problem is that people are collecting too many common coins with very little real numismatic value above face and are relying on the grading services to bail them out of poor choices. It will be a sad day if PCGS "gives in" and starts giving out the kind of grades that people want. This is just my opinion so don't get too upset. Steve

TheNumish

You might feel differently if they were your coins. Everyone wants to buy conservatively graded coins when they are buying them but when you have coins you paid dearly for and they come back as cleaned or AU it is not fun.

Seems to me the feedback on grading runs in cycles. Sometimes people are happy and sometimes upset. I think it has more to do with expectations than how PCGS is grading.

nwcs

This is why I recommend everyone take the ANA classes on grading. It pays off in many ways.

Cam40

If you can afford to pay all that money on submission fees to learn how to grade properly then more power to you.

What is proper grading though.Its just an opinion.

I hate it when some get all personal if you call their coin `altered `or something.
Its just a coin.Not a flesh and blood relative.You,d think you just called their kid retarded or something.

Steve27

My guess is that you buy already slabbed coins for your registry set, and thus you avoid the submittal process.

jbsteven

<< <i>My guess is that you buy already slabbed coins for your registry set, and thus you avoid the submittal process >>



You hit the nail on the head! I guarantee he buys his coins already slabbed. The first time he buys a raw coin for $2000 at a certain grade and it comes back cleaned or 2-3 grades lower he will think differently.

Clankeye

<< <i>but when you have coins you paid dearly for and they come back as cleaned or AU it is not fun. >>



You have to take into consideration this scenerio: the coins are cleaned or AU. In many instances that is the case. Fun? No. A reflection of the reality of it? Probably.

Everybody has the right to be disappointed by grading results. But the coin is the coin is the coin.

The day they start assigning grades by throwing a dart at a board (which I think some people suspect they do already) then it will be fair game to complain loudly.

What I find interesting, is people buying a lot of raw coins, sending them into a service, and then feeding the results back into the forum pipeline as if it were evidence that some kind of dark, mysterious conspiracy is going on. Sometimes the coins just aren't what we would hope them to be, in our heart of hearts.

Carl

DAM

Steve,

I think in some cases PCGS, and the other services, miss the mark. But to constantly criticize grading, or coins that come back in body bags, IMO, is the result lack of grading experience. I've complained too when my coins haven't received the grade I thought they should have received. But after a closer look, most of the time I have to agree with it.

Quite often hear about high prices paid for slabbed coins "in hopes of obtaining a higher grade", especially at large auctions. Can you imagine what those folks most be saying if they don't get the grade they want? It's a game. An expensive if you lose.

I always look for a bargain. If it's in the form of a discounted price, an undergraded coin, or other, I feel good for getting it. In the end, I'm a collector. It's a hobby to me. I let the speculators take the risks, and listen the them complain too.

Cam40

Also the thing is is that the posters here are so varied.Some play the crack-out game to seek higher profits in sales.
Those would be the dealers or the coin movers and shakers or just go-getters.
Then there are the `Hey ,I just collect,I cant get all caught up in this chasing numbers game.`
Then there are the`I found a silver penny.Whats it worth`

Lots of area for conflicting views I suppose.

It takes a viiiiilage.Right Hillary?
Yew bet.

LucyBop

<< <i>The first time he buys a raw coin for $2000 at a certain grade >>



I for one, would never buy a 2k coin that isn't slabb'd.... To much of a risk for me, I buy tons of Raw coins, the appeal there is I find them very cheap and I have gotten some nice scores getting them graded.....

AbesNeighbor

I think people have the right to be disappointed. I also think we are all biased about our own coins and our grading ability.

It seems the same people who want higher grades complain about the Population numbers being too high.

Collect for fun! If you don't want surprises, don't send the coins in to be graded...Otherwise buy them already graded...or, send them to ACGS and get the grades you want.

Cam40

people buying a lot of raw coins, sending them into a service, and then feeding the results back into the forum pipeline as if it were evidence that some kind of dark, mysterious conspiracy is going on.


That one made me laugh...Not at any one member......OK....Its Russ....

lol

no!!!!!!!

Steve

steve27 & jbsteven, you are wrong about my buying just slabbed coins. I collect Lincoln cents and have a complete collection of proofs and uncirculated. I submitted my most valuable coins to PCGS over the past five years. I got a few bodybags but most were graded including my 1914D in MS65RB. I had purchased these coins over the years from reputable dealers and found out I got what I paid for generally. There are a few slabs in my Lincoln registries that I did purchase more recently like the 1909VDB Matte Proof. Only 420 issued by the US Mint. I won that at auction in an ANACS PR63RB holder and crossed it knowingly to a PCGS PR61RB holder. Did I lose money on it? I doubt it because there are people who would buy a coin like that for its rarity more than its grade. It was more important to me to have my collection all in one grading service holder. I chose PCGS awhile back because of their reputation and because of the way they present their slabs by coin series and coin number. Again, I'm not in the grading game. I buy the coin I like will let the future decide what my coins are worth. Based on the conservative Heritage price guide, I'm ahead right now, but it's the fun of completion, more than current value that keeps me happy. Steve

Steve27

Have you submitted anything recently (within the last month or two)?

Woodwind

Perhaps I'm guilty of this as I posted my submission results yesterday. I hope it was interpreted more as a vent and not a complaint. I look at it as a positive learning experience, realize I have a lot more to learn, and move forward. I realize it's not personal, and I will try to resist the temptation of throwing my PVC contaminated 1882-CC Morgan Dollar onto Mar Vista Street.

I enjoy my collection very much, I'm in it for fun, and I'm not looking to sell any of it for a very long time, if ever. I really don't care whether or not they made it into plastic. On one of them, I was 50-50 as to whether or not I wanted to see it in plastic so in retrospect it's probably a good thing. I'd rather not spend my money to try to have the same coin slabbed over and over again, though I'd probably feel differently if I were a full time dealer with 20 year experience trading coins worth thousands of dollars each.

Steve

steve27, yes, I'm slabbing my common proofs now. $10, soon to be $12 each. Grades will NOT be PR69DCAM or higher so it will be a losing situation moneywise, but I plan to have all my Lincoln proofs in PCGS slabs. My 1909-1958's are already in the Registry complete. See, I don't sit on pins and needles waiting to get a "68 or 69" from PCGS. I'll take what they give me and be happy. I know you disagree. Steve

Steve27

Unless you've submitted pre-65 coins recently, you may not be aware of any change.

Russ

<< <i>I personally am happy that PCGS is tough or at least is perceived to be tough on giving out grades. >>



I don't mind tough. As a matter of fact, I want tough. I like strict grading because I'm very picky about my coins. I've bounced plenty of PCGS coins back to sellers because I thought they were OVER graded.

What I have a problem with is the recent seeming paranoia in the grading room that results in inconsistency and automatic bodybags.

Russ, NCNE

keets

hey all

there are many ways to post about submission results. unfortunately, the one chosen most frequently appears to be done like this-----send in some coins, as soon as PCGS posts assigned grades online, post and complain.

perhaps a better approach is warranted. start a thread with the list of coins to be submitted, a brief description and your grade assessment. then wait until the coins have returned to you and you get a chance to examine them before you post the results and kick the graders in the crotch.

i always go on the assumption that they were right and i was wrong when a submission is returned. i look at my coins and ask "what didn't i see" as opposed to asking "are they blind!!" generally, when i miss a grade and use this approach to critique, i'm able to see what i missed and what they saw. they aren't perfect and there are times when i stand by my original grade, but usually i find little to complain about and it all balances out with the coins that i undergraded.

al h.

LucyBop

Pre assessment:

= MS69++, a tiny nik keeps this GEM from a 70.

nwcs

At least keets got a grade super quick. I'm still waiting at 45 business days for my invoice.

UncleJoe

I don't know Lucy 69++?

The picture is a little fuzzy and you know how hard it is to grade by a scan or picture.

For instance, I can't tell how much original luster is left on that example.

And worse, it's not slabbed.

Joe.

keets

hey unclejoe

the fuzziness is removed about every fourth day!!!

hey neil, my last one took 48 days so i understand your impatience. i have an 8 coin modern waiting right now. i decided to hold off cause they relented and bumped us down to a 5-coin minimum. i'll wait to see what the freebie is before i submit this one. does anyone have an idea of what it may be??

oh yeah, lucille, you are such a peach!!

al h.

LucyBop

Grade just in! Rats!!!! IS PCGS BLIND!??????????????

keets

oh no!!!! not the bag!!! please, call HRH before they ship me.

al h.

LucyBop

A Presidential review is in order on this one! How did this happen HepDaddy?????

ksteelheader

Back on Feb. 23, I posted a thred with a very good picture of a 1954 Franlin and asked for assessments on the grade. I just found out my results. The guesses were, 1 for MS63, 4 for MS64, and 4 for MS65. That is an average of 64.333, or MS64. They all said FBL. PCGS has just graded it as MS62 FBL. Not complaining though. It will just be a coin to use for judgement calls on my part when buying more raw Franklins...................Ken