Why is it that ANACS is treated as second tier?

Barry

Everybody talks about PCGS/NGC being the first tier services. What is it about ANACS that commands less respect?

goose3

my personal dislikes about them are
1. tiny poorly designed, poor looking holder
2. VERY quick to throw a net grade on something
3. I highly dislike the "net" grading aspect altogether. NCS does it the best way IMO

I have some ANACS holdered coins that I feel are properly graded and are very nice coins. Do I want to crack them out and see if someone elses opinion is the same at 15.00 a crack? Nope. I collect coins not plastic.

eagle7

ANACS coins can be very good and they can be very bad. They lack the quality of being on standard as the big two. sure there are variations with PCGS and NGC but within the narrow confines of the particular denomination and date they are much better at being on their standard than ANACS. This is especially true of the center two thirds of the numbering system at ANACS. The very early coins and the very lastest coins tend to be more on standard than the others. The term look at the coin and not the holder applies to all but more to ANACS than the other two.

mdwoods

I think ANACS is as good as NGC, both are just a hair below PCGS in my opinion. ANACS is actually very tough on certain coins. I think a larger holder would help them out as well.

They are tough on Brown Lincolns, a little too liberal on newer red wheaties and memmies.

paigowjohnny

IMHO, based on limited experience....I think ANACS grades a lot closer to the true (and often vague) ANA guidance....whereas NGC and PCGS grade to their proprietary derivative of the ANA standard. All 3 do a good job within the bounds of their guidance.

I do think ANACS' slab size hurts them, if only because the "standard" now has become the NGC/PCGS sized slab.

I also think NGC and PCGS came in with deeper pockets and were able to market themselves a long way in a relatively short period of time.

I trust any one of those 3 services, but you do have to look at each coin.

baccaruda

i don't consider ANACs 2nd tier. I do wish they'd make their slab clear like PCGS tho.

cascade

I actually like ANACS holders, & the step designations for Jefferson nickels.

wallstreetman

I wouldnt put them on level 2 with NGC, more like level 3, they make too many mistakes on counterfeits!

PCGS is alone in the #1 spot!

Baley

why is anacs second tier? well let's rephrase, why generally third or 4th instead of first or second?

I think it's the market perception of strictness of grades, simple as that.

hypothetically, if I were to tell you that I have a group of 8 better date Morgans dollars, say they're all 1890-S, all graded MS-65 by each of AGC, ANACS, ICG, NGC, NTC, PCGS, PCI, and SEGS, 8 coins total. The coins and holders are genuine and untampered, right off the market.

again, hypothetically, I'm going to give 8 of you your choice, one by one, of the coins, until they're gone.

you draw number one, which coin do you choose? what if you're third or fourth to choose, and the pcgs and NGC coins are gone? what if you're 7th and your choice is between the AGC and NTC coins?

I think this thought experiment explains the market's perception of the strictness of the TPGs.

DCAMFranklin

Within certain series, I certainly don't see them as "second tier". In fact, within certain series, I seek them out.

Regarding your number drawing scenario. If given first choice, then I would probably look at the PCGS, NGC and ANACS coins very closely. All things being equal, I would take the PCGS coin first. If I find certain aspects of the other 2 preferential to the PCGS coin, then I would gladly take either NGC or ANACS.

If the PCGS and NGC coins are gone and I am drawing 3rd, then I almost certainly take the ANACS coin, though I would give the ICG coin a good look.

If I am next to last and have a choice between ACG and NTC, then I would absolutely take the NTC coin.

Baley

no, you don't get to look at them. you only know that they are in the various company's holders as MS65.

by the way though, I agree with your order and reasoning exactly

DCAMFranklin

Without the ability to review the coins, then I will take the PCGS coin.

After the PCGS and NGC coins are gone, then I would take the ANACS coin.

With only the NTC and ACG coins remaining, then I will take the NTC coin.

MacCrimmon

<< <i> Without the ability to review the coins, then I will take the PCGS coin. >>



Shouldn't you take the BEST coin??????

keets

hey baley

i think you have proposed a reasonable thought experiment. if the holdered coins were from a series i felt confident in my knowledge of and had viewed enough coins in each of the services holders, i could give an answer. so let's take Jefferson's!!!! PCGS/ANACS, NGC, SEGS, PCI, NTC, ICG, ACG.

before the howling starts, a lot would depend upon what exactly the holder was-----green PCGS, gold PCI, green NGC, etc.........while the coin is certainly the most important thing, in a setup like this the holder would have to be considered in the reasoning process. with that said, my choices reflect experience with each in their best circumstances.

to the original question, i think ANACS serves a segment of the hobby as well as any of the others.

al h.

coinkat

There is significant competition among the TPG companies and so much can influence the market's perception of them. PCGS,NGC and ANACs have alot to offer collectors and it really depends what interests the individual collector as to which is best. If you collect high grade MS67+ modern, PCGS seems to be leading the market. However, if you are collecting Bust Halfs by Overton numbers and want the attribution on the slab, I think ANACs may be the best choice. There are good choices and unfortunately, perceptions can be wrong....Always buy the coin and not the plastic and use the grading service that best fits your needs as a collector or investor.

DCAMFranklin

<< <i>

<< <i> Without the ability to review the coins, then I will take the PCGS coin. >>



Shouldn't you take the BEST coin?????? >>




Perhaps you haven't take the time to read the ENTIRE thread??

Baley

oh, i fully agree that different coins "go best" in different holders, or no holder at all. I have coins in all of the holders mentioned, i even have one ACG coin just for the novelty and as kind of a slab type set.

I have old and new ngc and pcgs ones, problem but rare coins like my scratched 1801 half dollar are in a "net grade" slab like Segs or Anacs. A few of my favorite coins I got good deals on because they were in PCI or NTC slabs, since they were only overgraded a point or two but priced 5 or 10 points low!

But when the strict grade counts, like whether or not that coveted "price jump" extra point is there or not, I think the market's confidence order is generally PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, SEGS, PCI, NTC, and way out behind, ACG.

did I put enough qualifiers in the previous statement? let me add that there will be exceptions and to always buy the coin not the holder

Rampage

<< <i>I wouldnt put them on level 2 with NGC, more like level 3, they make too many mistakes on counterfeits! >>



So, are you saying that ANACS slabs fake coins??? I have never heard of anyone with that problem.

BigD5

Anacs lacks consistency. Their red and brown designations on copper can be suspect, more so than pcgs or ngc. I have seen some blatant undergrades in anacs holders, and blatant overgrades. The same can be said for pcgs and ngc, but there seems to be a larger scale of it with Anacs. I have found PLENTY of coins in Anacs holders that have crossed, and bumped. There biggest problem out in the market is consistency though.
I have never heard of anyone having a problem with counterfeits in Anacs holders, and I agree they are quick to NET grade coins.

dorkkarl

<< <i>Why is it that ANACS is treated as second tier? >>

because all slabs are 2d tier. 1st tier is learning to grade yourself.

for me, pcgs, acg, segs, anacs, ngc, ntc, ins, pci, all are on tier #2.

K S

BillJones

ANACS grading standards for Mint State coins ON AVERAGE are lower than those for the "big two.” Yet I have seen a few ANACS coins, especially in gold, when they where a lot tougher than the "big two."

For circulated coins ANACS is every bit as good as the "big two," but that is a bit of a left handed complement. All of the services are too liberal when it comes to grading circulated coins, especially key date circulated coins.

As for net grading, I complement ANACS for offering that service. There are many rare and important coins, especially among the early pieces, that the “big two” won’t grade because of problems. On the whole I think that ANACS is very fair with its net grading practices.

Many people like the ANACS holder because it takes less room in safe deposit boxes. When you are paying well for a limited space that is a consideration.

Gilbert

I believe ANACS has never recovered from the way they graded coins when they first provided services; first authentication only, then authenticatio and grading.

My understanding is they "generally speaking" assigned grades consistent with the theory that a coin right off the die could be a 70 if it imparted the exact detail as the striking die. If a coin had no bagmarks or other distractions normally associated with packing, storing and distribution, but was struck on an impure planchet, or a crumbling die, etc it may still receive a gem grade (65) or above. Even a toned black coin that had all the detail, no matter how unattractive might receive a grade considered unacceptable today.

Additionally, the slab for some, the net-grading for others, and other personal issues still impact its standing among TPG.

That said, using your hypothetical for a 1890S, I would select in this order:

hypothetically, if I were to tell you that I have a group of 8 better date Morgans dollars, say they're all 1890-S, all graded MS-65 by each of AGC, ANACS, ICG, NGC, NTC, PCGS, PCI, and SEGS, 8 coins total. The coins and holders are genuine and untampered, right off the market.
PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, SEGS, PCI, NTC, ACG.

Now if your hypo was for a 1878 7/8tf in MS63, then I would select:
ANACS, PCGS, NGC, SEGS, ICG, PCI, NTC, ACG although the last two would be extremely tough for me to consider.

If I were looking at a "rainbow toned" coin, the order would change again.

baccaruda

Just for fun, here's a sampling of what's being offered on Ebay right now. Highly unscientific, but the results are exactly as I expected. First searched by company name for POP, then by 70, PR70, and MS70 etc.

ANACS is the only one with the smooth bell-curve gem grades. Note when you get to a "65" grade ANACS % is on par with the others. From what this shows, either people just don't submit high-grade gems to ANACS, or PCGS and NGC is much more liberal with gem grades. One thing is for sure from the graph, PCGS and NGC "69" grades are overvalued - especially PCGS's

POP 70 69 68 67 66 65

PCGS 6677 19 1109 287 477 1087 901
.28% 16.61% 4.3% 7.14% 16.28% 13.49%

NGC 4387 188 422 113 274 571 707
4.29% 9.62% 2.58% 6.25% 13.02% 16.12%

ANACS 1112 0 6 10 18 45 147
0% .54% .9% 1.62% 4.05% 13.22%

of course this is only my opinion.

Edited - little easier to read now.