What are your thoughts on slabbed MS coins with fingerprints and toning?

SeattleSlammer

I know that even the slightest rub makes it an AU coin....right?

But what if a MS coin is mishandled and develops toning that makes the fingerprint obvious? I've seen these fingerprinted coins in MS holders
of all types (PCGS, NGC, ICG).....

Specifically, I have a MS65 ICG 81-S morgan with gorgeous blue and yellow toning, but there is an obvious fingerprint on it....the toning seems to have formed
around the impressions of the fingerprint......should that really be an AU coin? Did the oils in someones skin stick to the coin, either:

1) affecting the existing tone on the coin?
2) or did the tone form at a later date around the existing oil?

Confused yet? Any thoughts?

FrattLaw

A single print wouldn't necessarily mean the coin isn't MS. A fingerprint isn't rub in my humble opinion. A fingerprint could have happened at the mint.

Michael

sinin1

Most of my coins with cool tone are caused by fingerprints

Uncirculated coins do not have the wear and rub seen on coins that have been carried in peoples pockets with their other coins

I like fingerprints.

SeattleSlammer

Thanks for the responses. Good point about the difference between a fingerprint and rub. But I'm still wondering what your thoughts are on how the oil from the fingerprint affects the coin in terms of toning:

1) does that oil eat through existing tone on the coin?
2) does the oil make the coin more likely to tone in that area?
3) does the oil just add a new demension to the tone?

Just curious what people think.

mdwoods

I hate fingerprints, but I must admit that I have seen a couple nicely toned coins with prints that didn't seem to detract much, if any. mdwoods

nwcs

A fingerprint isn't rub from circulation necessarily. Most of the time it's poor handling. So long as it is a print that can be attributed to handling it'll never be wear.

banknote1

I really don't like fingerprint toning. But most coins have been touched by someone at some time. It may take decades for a fingerprint to show up.

stman

I'm one that hates prints. Seem to see more coins with them all the time. Some blame the grading services. I feel many of the prints are due to the coins being cracked out so many times for cross or upgrade. I've learned to put up with a very faint print if it's a great coin otherwise.

To try and help with some of your questions..... You will see many toned coins where the toning is mottled from a print, you will see wispy lines from prints, or the toning kind of smeared. Much of this is due to the oils from the skin that the toning will just go around it. It doesn't take the grade down from mintstate, but takes away from eye-appeal IMO.

I feel it should take the grades down a notch or two, because eye-appeal is a big part of the grade. Also when you view images the prints will often stand out more than it will in person. Sometimes you will see a print from a scan and won't even see it in person. Just one way images help (Did you hear that CoinGuy1)

Hope this helps some as I'm not good at expressing my thoughts with a keyboard.

SeattleSlammer

stman,

Thanks for the info, I think you expressed yourself just great.

Fairlaneman

A Old Time print or maybe a AT print on this coin. The coin is in a Blue Label Slab.

Dog97

stman is one and I'm the other guy that hates fingerprints.
I don't think a print should make a coin preclude the MS grade but it does make it less than desirable to me. It doesn't matter if the print came from a little old lady at the Mint that put a Morgan planchet on a balance scale to insure it was within acceptable tolerances or by a collector that used his big fat greasy thumb to plug a Whitman with it, it's still impaired and I avoid such coins.
stman answered question #2 and as far as #1 I never printed a toned coin to make sure but I suspect if the fingering finger is sweaty instead of greasy the acid in the sweat would remove the tone much like an acidic dip would do.
I keep a printed coin or 2 in a Registry Set just to show people: Text

Lori

I dont mind fingerprints on toned coins. It is sort of interesting. Here is a thread I have a few pictures of my toned coins with prints.

Link

Lori

Elcontador

I collect Unc. 19th Century type. I've seen fingerprints on a number of slabbed coins, from Large Cents through Seated $ in MS 64 & MS 65 grades. Not interested.

You can offer me a slabbed MS 65 Seated $ for 3 money & if it has a fingerprint, no thank you.

In terms of toning, you should expect some of it re most 19th Century type if you want an original coin. Otherwise, if it's silver & white, 90% or more of the time the coin has been dipped. I'd take an original over a dipped coin in the same grade, but if the coin was dipped well, that's not a deal-breaker to me.