There is a lot of validity about picture grading. I posted a picture a few weeks back of a very clean FBL 1954 Franklin. The grades offered ranged from MS63 to MS65. Coin has been graded as MS62 FBL. By the way, the coin was recieved on 3/03 as an economy submission, and shipped on 3/24.........Ken
<< <i>There is a lot of validity about picture grading. I posted a picture a few weeks back of a very clean FBL 1954 Franklin. The grades offered ranged from MS63 to MS65. Coin has been graded as MS62 FBL. By the way, the coin was recieved on 3/03 as an economy submission, and shipped on 3/24.........Ken >>
so the validity is what, that no one was able to "guess" the correct grade, or that pcgs was wrong?
I mostly agree that it is very difficult to get an accurate grade of an MS coin from a picture. Lustre is the big problem as it is difficult to capture the quality of it in a picture. You can tell marks and strike and eye appeal reasonably well from a good, I stress good, picture. Detecting problems (cleaning, AT, authenticity, rub, doctoring, etc) or even slight wear is a very hit and miss thing with a coin picture. There can be little doubt about that.
Grading circ coins is another story, IMO, as they are much more defined in their standards and a picture can bring out much more of what is needed to come to a grade. Problems can still be hidden and that is why I always say that people are grading what the coin they see in the picture and not necessarily the coin I see as I hold it in my hand.
My grading challenge is, of course, mostly just for funsies but I am often surprised at how close the grades are to what the coin actually is considering the wide range of experience of the people who vote in the challenge.
This coin is in a PCGS64 slab and 2/3 of the voters agreed to with 1 point with 1/3 nailing it the same as the pros.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a coin or make a life changing judgement of a coin based upon a grade from a picture but I can tell you I would put more stock in a grade of a Morgan from a picture by someone like Dog or K6AZ than I would put in many people if they had the coin in their hand. Also, I think the grading services have enough variance internally and compared to each other that when a grade from a picture is within a point, I wouldn't argue much with it and I don't think the grading servics are the last word in grading opinions either. Also the one point grading standard is not specific enough to expect everyone to agree every time. Add in Market Grading and it becomes worse.
I think you can learn things about grading from looking at pictures of coins and seeing other people's opinions of the grade. Of course, it is not the best way. Looking at A LOT coins in person is always the best but some things can be gleaned from pictures.
Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...
Opinions varied. Most said MS 62-64. Only two said uncirc. This coin came back from ANACS AU-58.
just an observation about the comments associated with coindaughters thread------i find it interesting to note that some who gave a grade estimate also added a disclaimer about the picture or noted something regarding luster or marks. many have noted in the past that AU58 and MS62 are swing grades used by PCGS, perhaps they're correct. also, i found dorkkarls reply about taking the coin out of the flip interesting. the primary reason for a thread of coindaughters ilk is for an informed opinion, so it's imperative that the picture posted be as representative of the coin as possible.
taken as a whole, the information in her thread seems very good and helpful. i looked at the scans of the coin after i already read the grade here and had looked at the replies on the linked thread. nothing suprising, really. i thought the comments were good.
Comments
<< <i>There is a lot of validity about picture grading. I posted a picture a few weeks back of a very clean FBL 1954 Franklin. The grades offered ranged from MS63 to MS65. Coin has been graded as MS62 FBL. By the way, the coin was recieved on 3/03 as an economy submission, and shipped on 3/24.........Ken >>
so the validity is what, that no one was able to "guess" the correct grade, or that pcgs was wrong?
z
Grading circ coins is another story, IMO, as they are much more defined in their standards and a picture can bring out much more of what is needed to come to a grade. Problems can still be hidden and that is why I always say that people are grading what the coin they see in the picture and not necessarily the coin I see as I hold it in my hand.
My grading challenge is, of course, mostly just for funsies but I am often surprised at how close the grades are to what the coin actually is considering the wide range of experience of the people who vote in the challenge.
For example:
http://www.thestujoecollection.com/grade/2003/030703grade.htm?show_results
K6AZ said after the week of grading was up that he thought it was a very strong 63 and the results had 2/3 of the people who voted say 63 or 64.
Another:
http://www.thestujoecollection.com/grade/90702grade.htm?show_results
This coin is in a PCGS64 slab and 2/3 of the voters agreed to with 1 point with 1/3 nailing it the same as the pros.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a coin or make a life changing judgement of a coin based upon a grade from a picture but I can tell you I would put more stock in a grade of a Morgan from a picture by someone like Dog or K6AZ than I would put in many people if they had the coin in their hand. Also, I think the grading services have enough variance internally and compared to each other that when a grade from a picture is within a point, I wouldn't argue much with it and I don't think the grading servics are the last word in grading opinions either. Also the one point grading standard is not specific enough to expect everyone to agree every time. Add in Market Grading and it becomes worse.
I think you can learn things about grading from looking at pictures of coins and seeing other people's opinions of the grade. Of course, it is not the best way. Looking at A LOT coins in person is always the best but some things can be gleaned from pictures.
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a picture would not work for us.
Camelot
just an observation about the comments associated with coindaughters thread------i find it interesting to note that some who gave a grade estimate also added a disclaimer about the picture or noted something regarding luster or marks. many have noted in the past that AU58 and MS62 are swing grades used by PCGS, perhaps they're correct. also, i found dorkkarls reply about taking the coin out of the flip interesting. the primary reason for a thread of coindaughters ilk is for an informed opinion, so it's imperative that the picture posted be as representative of the coin as possible.
taken as a whole, the information in her thread seems very good and helpful. i looked at the scans of the coin after i already read the grade here and had looked at the replies on the linked thread. nothing suprising, really. i thought the comments were good.
al h.