Very pricey rainbow toned ms67 Frankie.

LucyBop

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3014403474&category=11973

Very beautiful Frankie..... But a high price.....

MrKelso

I wonder why the price is so high on this one? Is it the tonning? Is tonning that hot that people think they should pay extra for it? It all confuses me so much. I am going to listen to Fats.

CLASSICS

1956 d?..... franklin half? ......the mint never made a 1956d franklin half.....this is the second or third time its been listed, you would think they would at least get the year right in the add.....would only grade a ms65, or 66, at pcgs, so send it to icg, get a ms67, and up the price10 times .....

Tonekiller

Folks,

I have seen this coin in person. Its a 67 FBL and a monster. Just b/c a coin is in a ICG holder does not mean they over graded it. Why is it not crossed already to NGC or PCGS........why waste the time if the grade is correct?

IMO,

TBT

MrKelso

<< <i>1956 d?..... franklin half? ......the mint never made a 1956d franklin half.....this is the second or third time its been listed, you would think they would at least get the year right in the add.....would only grade a ms65, or 66, at pcgs, so send it to icg, get a ms67, and up the price10 times ..... >>



I think it is a typo this is showing a 58

MadMonk

5,000 yea right! That Dealer is one of the kings of Franklins, has been for many years, and he supplies the retailers as well. If that coin was a true 67, it would be in a PCGS or even, god forbid, an NGC holder. So My extremely educated "guess" is it is a 350.00 coin.
ICG gives out way too many 67's, and the ones I see are 66's. I've seen PCGS 67's, They got me very excited. So, I would steer clear. My crossover and grade desired rate is well over 95%. I think I'll trust myself on this one.

wallstreetman

Right on MadMonk! If the coin was a 67 it wouldnt be in an ICG holder! The seller seems to think its in a PCGS slab, he cant even get the date right!

braddick

There's a middle ground here. If Bryan says he's seen the coin and it's 67 all day long in anyone's holder, that carries weight and credibility with me.
Also, if you receive your asking price of $5,000.00 as is- in the ICG holder- why take the time to cross the coin and colors into PCGS and still receive a $5,000.00 price?

Overall I can't dismiss your notions regarding ICG as it is built on a history of experiences and "word on the street", but this Franklin very well may be the exception to the "Franklin MS67" rule.

wallstreetman

Because someone may be dumb enough to pay that kind of money for the toning! It would still be in his best interest to put it in a PCGS slab, but he knows it wont make it! Let someone put their money where their mouth is!

braddick

Why is it in his best interest to have the coin cross?
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you- just wanting your thoughts and conclusions to support your statement.

BillJones

And the major point here is that the toning isn't even that attractive. This is an offering for a very wealthy person who is mentally challenged. There aren't that many of those around because if they keep buying stuff like this for 5 grand they won't be wealthy for very long.

MadMonk

For instance, go to Teletrade Prices realized. It's very clear. The dealer who owns that coin is a
VERY knowledgeable Franklin wholesaler. He could cross it for 30.00, sell it to R&I, and still have a healthy profit. Lets follow this piece, see if anyone takes the bait, if it doesnt sell, lets see if it shows up in another retalers offerings in the same or differant slab. I actually own some ICG Franklins. They are beautiful coins that I payed what I thought they were worth. Nothing near PCGS levels. Not to say PCGS doesnt have some coins that I would consider dogs. Bottom line is PCGS 67's, as a whole will usually be a much more solid coin for the grade. At this level, a newbie might take the bait. And The dealer has made a killing. In a pcgs 66 holder, the dealer makes a hundred or two, depending if he bought the Mint set, etc. Why possibly throw away a $4,800 profit if he can find a taker? I myself don't find that very tasteful.

Russ

<< <i>This is an offering for a very wealthy person who is mentally challenged. >>



I know quite a few wealthy people. None of them are mentally challenged.

Russ, NCNE

mdwoods

The color is sure gorgeous. The PCGS MS67FBL Franklins I have seen, have a completely full Bell along the bottom edge with no interruptions at all. However, I have only seen 3 at this grade so I am not sure if PCGS would call this one a 67 or not. mdwoods

I should say that I have purchased several Franklins from this seller and have been very satisfied.

banknote1

Boy you guys are biased! How much does PCGS pay for this loyality? I see no reason whatsoever to cross the coin, unless you are wanting to put it in the registry. I hate to hurt anyone's feelings but there are some great coins in ICG holders!
I do think $5K for any Franklin is stupid! But if someone likes the coin and wants to buy it, so what...

mdwoods

Boy you guys are biased! How much does PCGS pay for this loyality?

300 dollars per post. If you look at enough ICG coins, you will really see inconsistency on a large scale. They earned their less than stellar reputation. mdwoods

banknote1

...and PCGS has a stellar reputation?

mdwoods

Better than any of the others. I base my opinion on having looked at thousands of slabbed coins. It is my opinion. I am certainly not a grading God, but I have seen enough to convince myself and that is all that really matters. To me anyways. mdwoods

dpoole

Why is it in his best interest to have the coin cross?

Credibility.

They're selling this thing on an online auction.

MadMonk

I
Can't
Grade, but PCGS can do it better. Bias is differant than consensus. The consensus is that ICG is at a differant level than PCGS.
Look at a blue sheet. Why are there differant prices for the differant grading services? Because dealers know the ins and outs of selling coins in these various holders. That's reality.

BillJones

ICG is not on the Blue Sheet. That's one of the factors that forced them into the lower levels of the grading pecking order. In the beginning they tried to join PCGS and NGC at the head of the pack, but some of the big dealers that have a stake in keeping things the way they are bad mounthed them. From then on it was all down hill for ICG.

I'll say it again. I don't this this coin is that beautiful. The obverse has some nice color on the right side, but the left is the usualy brown / gray tarnish. The reverse if fairly nice, but the color is not even. There are milk spots. If this is what great toned Franklin looks like, I guess the population must not be that outstanding. I've seen many Barber and Seated coins plus a lot of Morgan Dollars that are far more attractively toned than this.

mdwoods

Bill, I saw a pastel rainbow toned 58D PCGS MS67FBL Frankie at Baltimore recently. I got to study it up close for as long as I wanted. The toning was more even and the Bell was 100% completely there. The line along the bottom of the bell was perfect, no breaks whatsoever. I think that is why this ICG coin would be a very lovely PCGS MS66FBL coin. Top end 66, but a 66 none the less. mdwoods

I remember a while back that TBT crossed a NGC Frankie to a PCGS MS67FBL coin. I think it even upgraded, maybe 2 points. Obviously they preferred PCGS. Apologies in advance if my memory fails me.

Baley

IMO it's certainly a nice coin.
$5k nice? No, not to me and probably not to most.
A seller can price his unique items at what ever they want to though, and maybe a buyer will appear at the right place at the right time and pony up the cash the seller is asking for the piece.
my prediction, thoughm, is that this auction will close without a bidder.

For that much of a premium for that one point that gets it from 66 to 67, and/or for the FBL, and/or that much of a premium for the extraordinary color, for most advanced collectors with that much green to spend, they will require the coin to be in a PCGS slab probably and would possibly consider NGC*

Newkid

It`s always been hard for me to sell a coin for that kind of money unless it was certified by either PCGS or NGC. And if it is an MS67FBL , why not spend $20 to get it in a better holder?

MadMonk

Well a lot of us know that ICG is not on the Bluesheet. They shot themselves in the foot. I took issue with them on thier grading, and there attitude was condescending. They are all over the place with thier grading, and without consistency, they will never get the respect they desire.
As far as the coin, it's not a godzilla.

braddick

My only response in calling this a PCGS MS66 via the auction photo:

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=177997

LucyBop

This coin is drop dead georgous......I would have a hard time even paying 2500 for this even if it was in a PCGs holder. But it is a stunning GEM! Whenever I buy a ICG Frankie its because of the value that the coin may present....

DCAMFranklin

Lucy- Well, we definitely AGREE on this one! That coin is absolutely drop dead gorgeous. Virtually impossible to replace. Extremely scarce with those colors!

That is the kind of coin you don't crack out. That is the kind of coin you send to NGC or PCGS and say cross at the same grade or FORGET IT! If they really want the better coins in their holders and want to brag about them, then they will place that coin in the MS-67 FBL holder.

Gotta agree I wouldn't pay that pricetag.

mnmcoin

<< <i>Folks,

I have seen this coin in person. Its a 67 FBL and a monster. Just b/c a coin is in a ICG holder does not mean they over graded it. Why is it not crossed already to NGC or PCGS........why waste the time if the grade is correct?

IMO,

TBT >>



Come on Bryan, do I have to sway your hand for a dumb question next time I see you.

mo <><

mnmcoin

I definitely agree that you can not grade consistantly and accurately from a scan, but what you can tell is if the coin would make the wonder grade. With the friction to the left of Frankies head and especially below and to the right of the eagle, I would say it would not make 67 at PCGS. Just my opinion of course.

morris <><

pmh1nic

Nice coin but my sense of value prohibits my spending anywhere near $5000 (or in other terms more than double the value of my whole Franklin collection) for the coin.