ACG vs Stuppler Hearing Documents

K6AZ · March 23, 2003 4:14AM

Here are two documents that were presented at the hearing.

The first document is basically Diane Hager's complaint to the ANA consisting
of the email Barry Stuppler sent to one of his clients advising him to be
careful buying ACG slabs. The second page of this document is ACG's response
to this email. Note where they claim my site is actually ran by Barry Stuppler.

ACG Complaint

The second document is a statement by John Callandrello who is an ex-emplyee
of ACG. This document finally sheds light on why the big eBay ACG dealers
jumped ship some time ago, with centsles being mentioned by name. He also
outlines the very deceptive practices ACG is involved in.

Callendrello Statement

mdwoods · March 23, 2003 4:25AM

Imagine my shock to learn that a former ACG employee swears that AH actively participated in illegal activities.

Russ · March 23, 2003 4:25AM

Whoah! If the allegations contained in Callandrello's statement are true, this goes way, way beyond overgrading and clearly crosses in to criminal activity. The Hagers need to stock up on cigarettes and candy bars, because it looks like they're going to need some trading material.

Russ, NCNE

cosmicdebris · March 23, 2003 4:32AM

Thanks for sharing. Most interesting reading.

K6AZ · March 23, 2003 4:32AM

It gets better Russ. After I grab a bite to eat, I am going to work on document #3, which is the bankruptcy proceeding Hager filed in 2000. In that, the trustee had to file a complaint because the Hagers were hiding assets. Also mentioned in that document was Alan Hager's property, which included a shotgun and a 9 mm Glock. Very interesting considering his past.

kranky · March 23, 2003 5:01AM

I wonder how Centsles feels after reading that statement from Mr. Callendrello!

Russ · March 23, 2003 5:07AM

Kranky,

Since he switched to NTC before this, my hunch is that he'd already figured it out.

Russ, NCNE

fcloud · March 23, 2003 5:24AM

A most interesting read. Thanks for the info.

FatMan · March 23, 2003 5:35AM

Thanks for the documents. Amazing testimony from the previous employee. How credible is this guy? If he is credible could be big trouble for the Hagars.

oreville · March 23, 2003 5:43AM

I wonder if the Hagers reported the income from the bartering of services in exchange for half of centsles slabbed coins?<p>
If the IRS is smart enough to get ahold of the above and if the Hagers failed to report the bartering as income then they could have a serious criminal tax fraud problem?
Just my own opinion.

Askari · March 23, 2003 7:00AM

Let's hope so, Oreville ... but they may need to hurry before they skip the country.

Thanks for all your effort behind this, Eric!!

Bikingnut · March 23, 2003 7:20AM

Wow!

Max · March 23, 2003 7:46AM

I am no fan of ACG but the only way they stay in business is by grading coins and having people buy their slabs. I have seen or heard numerous times experienced people say they in fact buy ACG at "below market" to crackout and submit to another service. Of course they will get it at below market and they are only kidding themselves as far as getting a deal.

Actually people who patronize dealers who sell ACG or buy ACG slabs themselves are keeping ACG afloat.

There is only one way to have a company fail, stop patronizing them. Despite all the detractors on this forum I bet more than 90% would buy an ACG given a "good deal". So much for putting ones morality and ethics before making or saving a buck. That being the case I say forget about ACG going away, that will happen if collectors start thinking about numistmatics and stop thinking about $$.

Edited to add: Too bad Stuppler got mixed up in this but read some of his hyped ebay auctions. No, this is not justification for what happened but I have no sympathy given the way he does business.

RegistryCoin · March 23, 2003 7:52AM

90%

I don't think so.
Welcome to the boards!

Russ · March 23, 2003 8:00AM

Interesting first post there, Max.

Russ, NCNE

tradedollarnut · March 23, 2003 8:00AM

I would not buy an ACG coin no matter how good the deal was. If it was a coin I had to have, I'd force the seller to crack it out and sell it to me raw before I'd buy it in that holder.

I must be one of that "other" 10%.

K6AZ · March 23, 2003 8:04AM

I wondered when the damage control was going to start. Here it is, in the flesh.

mommam17 · March 23, 2003 8:06AM

I`m also in that 10%. No, never, not once. I will take that bet though.

Max · March 23, 2003 8:14AM

The link below speaks volumes:

Slab Poll

K6AZ, I have zippo to do with ACG and have never even touched an ACG slab. Your site does educate a great many collectors who otherwise are clueless and that's good. But as I mentioned, to stay in business a business needs customers. If ACG is so bad and evil how do they stay in business? People [dealers, collectors,etc.] buy their slabs.

The world's oldest profession thrives today, despite it being illegal. Why? Because there is demand.

Please don't misunderstand me. I am NOT supporting ACG I am merely pointing out the facts. Flame and ridicule me but I am simply an observer making observations. Maybe some of that testosterone should be used to pressure the ANA to do something about loose grading?

Thanks Russ! Love dem Kennies!

K6AZ · March 23, 2003 8:34AM

Sorry, I have a hard time taking your comments seriously. You signed up here five months ago, your first two posts are to this thread, and you have both PM and your profile turned off.

Max · March 23, 2003 8:46AM

Tough crowd here.

No need for PMs as if you want to say something say it, I have a thick skin.

Profile is off as I get more than my share of porno site spam when my email is revealed.

Yes, ignore my comments they are meaningless. Look at the facts.

One day ACG will disappear and another firm like them will appear to satisfy the greed of many collectors/dealers as well as human nature.

oreville · March 23, 2003 8:56AM

Hate to admit but I bought a couple of ACG slabs just to have in my historical slab collection. In fact my nephew even bought one for me with the photo in the ACG slab when they were known as Accugrade of Connecticut.

Hate to also admit but there is some demand for cheap Accugrade slabs only because some collectors want to gawk at them and they they have a rediculously overgraded coin.

If they go out of business their slabs will INCREASE in value (but only for the very cheap ACG slabs).

Barry · March 23, 2003 9:35AM

<< <i>One day ACG will disappear and another firm like them will appear to satisfy the greed of many collectors/dealers as well as human nature. >>

One day? You haven't seen Newmistrust, the new PCI or any of the other self-slabbers?

ursabear · March 23, 2003 9:52AM

When I returned to coin collecting a few years ago, I set my sights on circ Mercs and silver proof Kennedys (these are coins with which I grew up).

My very first discovery of encapsulated coins was on eBay. My very first encapsulated coin was an ACG PR70 Silver proof Kennedy. I bought it from ah-collectibles at what seemed like a real deal compared to the other grading companies. (P.S. Now that I've had some experience grading silver proof Kennedys, in retrospect I'd say it was a PR68 CAM ).

Some months later, we needed some money for something important to me, so I put the coin up on eBay for sale to try to recoup most or all of my money (I figured that the PR69s were going for $40-$50 at the time from PCGS and others... what the hey... I might make a dollar or two).

I put it up for $9.99 with no reserve. It sold for $10.50. It was then that I went on a journey that led me to reading about lots of different grading companies. I'm glad I took that journey, and I'm glad I've worked so much with PCGS. Thank goodness it was but one coin, and but one $30 loss.

Askari · March 23, 2003 11:38AM

Welcome to the forums, Max! You certainly came in with a bang on your very first post.

Like Mommam, I'd take that bet too! There's a good many of us here who've never bought an ACG-slabbed coin and don't even bother to look them over. That said, I wouldn't get bent out of shape by someone buying one of their slabbed coins and cracking it out -- for sending to an honest TPG service, simply adding to their own collection raw, or for resale (again, in any form other than an ACG slab or one of the other "services" of their ilk).

Why? Because, actually, it's not the buying and selling of ACG-slabbed coins that keeps ACG in business but rather those who submit coins to them for encapsulating. (I can't bring myself to say "grading" inasmuch as that doesn't appear to be part of the process.) No submissions, no income. C'est finis! What I absolutely refuse to do is patronize any dealer who submits coins to them.

Gilbert · March 23, 2003 9:53PM

Why? Because, actually, it's not the buying and selling of ACG-slabbed coins that keeps ACG in business but rather those who submit coins to them for encapsulating. (I can't bring myself to say "grading" inasmuch as that doesn't appear to be part of the process.) No submissions, no income. C'est finis! What I absolutely refuse to do is patronize any dealer who submits coins to them.

Thanks Askari,

My sentiments exactly. Saved me from needing to post that reality.

Max,
Welcome to the forum. On another note, that poll doesn't really support your position. Anyway, I do not know one COLLECTOR who submits to ACG. That is how they make their money: submissions. Of course, they made and maybe still make money on their slab technology, but you can hardly blame their existence on collectors.

ACG vs Stuppler Hearing Documents

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