FULL TORCH

rickrman · March 19, 2003 10:32PM

I want a "Full Spike" designation for my platinum eagles and a "Nice Papoose Face" designation for my sacs and a "Coulda Been A Contender" designation for all my ms68's and a "Graded On The First Day Of Spring" designation for all the coins being graded tomorrow. FULL TORCH? PUKE!

LucyBop · March 19, 2003 10:34PM

More Full Torch for me!

BillJones · March 19, 2003 10:41PM

It sounds like “full torch” will be another gimmick that some will use to torch collectors. I have no doubt however, that there will be enough lemmings to make this scheme succeed, but you can count me out of it.

LucyBop · March 19, 2003 11:02PM

More for me!

LucyBop · March 19, 2003 11:14PM

I find it interesting that people have to call others lemmings or other names because they don't agree with a new designation. Is that neccessary? Do you now look into the mirror and feel better about yourself? Whatever, I dig the designation and I am a little lucky that I haven't sent the majority of my Roosies in for grading... Regardless of the namecallers, More Full Torchies For me!

Outhaul · March 19, 2003 11:15PM

Is PCGS so hard up for something for the graders to do that they have to resort to creating new designations? If the graders have that much time on their hands, SPEED UP THE GD SERVICE!

Count me out of THIS revenue generator!

I'm beginning to have my doubts about PCGS and their decision-making process.

LucyBop · March 19, 2003 11:20PM

Hmm... NGC followed suit, maybe per your definition they are hard up as well....

LucyBop · March 19, 2003 11:26PM

Maybe you should go post on NGC and call them hard up as well.

smprfi · March 20, 2003 12:38AM

Lucy you got something on your nose.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 12:40AM

Another name caller and putdown artists... Do you feel better now????? Can you hold your head up high now? Go brag to your friends..

1956Quarter · March 20, 2003 12:50AM

I want these Franklin designations.... Lucy??

FBH = Full Bald Head
FBC = Full Bell Crack
FS = Full Snozola
FC = Full Chin

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 12:55AM

You Homer Simpson looking comedian!

1956Quarter · March 20, 2003 1:00AM

Thats me. Bald, beautiful, and funny. Better hurry though, I'm getting married on Saturday.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 1:03AM

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! Bald and Beautiful.......!!!!!! Give her a Franklin as a wedding gift!

1956Quarter · March 20, 2003 1:11AM

I would have, but they are very hard to find around here.

nucklehead · March 20, 2003 1:15AM

Let's see,Roosevelt dimes have been minted since 1946.Now along comes a grading service or two that decides to create a "Full torch" as a new way to pry more bucks from collectors.Let's see if the Redbook uses the term in future editions.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 1:18AM

More Full Torchies for Me!

boz · March 20, 2003 1:21AM

I'm with you Lucy, if people feel pcgs is doing this for the money, what should it matter to them? I think it makes the hobby that much more interesting, by recognizing special coins. People/companies are in business to make money, not to satisfy crybabies!!! If you don't like it don't participate. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

BillJones · March 20, 2003 3:01AM

find it interesting that people have to call others lemmings or other names because they don't agree with a new designation. Is that neccessary? Do you now look into the mirror and feel better about yourself?

Yes Lucy, I can look in the mirror and feel better about myself because what I'm trying to do here is to convey an alternate point of view based upon my experience.

If you own one of the top Roosevelt dime sets on the registries or desire to build one, the cash register should already be going off in your head. Now you are faced with two requirements to remain on top:

1. You will have to have your top grade coins that are already slabbed re-holdered if they qualify for the “full torch” designation. (KA-CHUM!)

2. If your top grade coins don’t qualify for the “full torch,” you will have buy more coins. (KA-CHUM!)

Who will benefit from this? PCGS, NGC and a few dealers who specialize in this material. Who pays? The collectors whose sets have now been downgraded, at least from the registry point of view, because of a new sharpness designation.

Now if you are a collector who really enjoys these coins because they fully struck on the reverse and likes to read about it on the holder, one can chalk that up as legitimate. But, if you are one of those whose only desire is be at the top of the registry, I’d say you on your way to becoming a lemming.

As I’ve said many times before, one is free to collect whatever they like, but they should go into it with their eyes wide open. “Full torch, full bands, full bell lines, full steps, full hand, full head and fully defined continents” are all designations that have gained varying degrees of acceptance in the numismatic market. Some dealers and some collectors don’t give a hoot about any of that stuff. When you pay large premiums for those designations, you are taking risk on a subset, sometimes a very small subset, of the market. I just want to point that out.

The registries are the biggest and best numismatic marketing tool that has come along since the slab was introduced. Now fads and promotions that once lived and died in a matter months and cost those dearly who followed them, have a much longer shelf-life.

How many people remember when the 1960 small date cent sold for $50? Do remember you the 1965 dot cent that would fill the 1965-D hole in your album? How about the 1975-S Proof cent that was worth $25 and had a great future because it had the lowest mintage for a Lincoln cent since the 1914-D? Is anybody paying over $200 for the 1973-S silver Proof Ike dollar because the mintage was “only a million?”

I could go on with this list, but before you throw mud balls at me for writing things you don’t like read, think about what has happened in the past and consider if you would like to be part of a similar future.

redhott · March 20, 2003 3:05AM

Naysayers, is it possible you just didn't put the effort into searching for nice Roosies for your sets, and can't stand to see those who did have a little success? The US Mint never suggested collectors should do DMPL Morgans, either. Don't hear you castigating that designation!!

mercurynut · March 20, 2003 3:07AM

I am in favor of the new full tourch designation. I collect mostly dimes and I have seen a lot of bad strikes. If people want the best quality why not have it designated as such. No one is forcing collectors to buy only full tourch rooservelts.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 3:08AM

If you don't ccollect the way others think you should, for some reason they think they are better... too bad! More Full Torchies for me!

mercurynut · March 20, 2003 3:11AM

Time to start a chant....full torch...full torch....full torch....

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 3:14AM

<< <i> could go on with this list, but before you throw mud balls at me writing things you don’t like read, think about what has happened in the past and consider if you would like to be part of a similar future.
>>

You can write whatever you want.... your rantings and ravings are of no consquence to my collecting.... I've got the money and I'll buy what I like...... you write your opinion, I'll write mine, I dig the designation and will seek these GEMs out......You opinions of the past, present and future are just opinions and you are by no means correct at this point. The thing that people like you don't get is I collect em cause I enjoy them, and I'll enjoy the new designation. I don't buy coins hoping and thinking how much money I can make... I am finacially set for life..... I buy em cause I enjoy em....... More Full Torchies for me! Both PCGs and NGC!

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 3:15AM

and maybe one day I'll learn to spell! So there!

ah · March 20, 2003 5:54AM

Sounds like Full Torch time to me. Let the new designation (Full Torch) roll.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 5:55AM

Full Torchie! Come to LemmingsBop!

ms70 · March 20, 2003 8:25PM

Man! You'd think some people here are paid to endorse PCGS products & ideas! Full torch = BIG MONEY MAKING GIMMICK FOR GRADING SERVICES.

Edited to say this is just my own opinion that I am entitled to as an American Citizen.

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 8:50PM

You would think some people are jealous that PCGs is a buisness and in buisness to make a profit.... I wonder if these same people cried with the Full Step, Full Bell, Full Bands..... This is still America, just my opinion, More Full Torchie for me!

LucyBop · March 20, 2003 8:56PM

It sounds like the Basketball players and Baseball players when they went on strike...

"Aieeee , no fair, the owners are turning a profit....Ayeeeee.."

How many here wish that thier place of employment isn't profitable?

Much success to PCGs and Full Torchies!

ms70 · March 21, 2003 12:29AM

Here's some full torchie for you!

FT

By the way- Making a profit is just fine, but making a trendy gimmick to do it is not. NO full torchie for me!

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 12:32AM

I love it Daddy-o!!!!!

"I Fell Into A Burning Ring Of Fire"
-Johnny Cash

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 12:39AM

I've been nice in this friendly debate, however, its time to call my guard doggie in, beware of Tito!

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 12:43AM

<< <i>but making a trendy gimmick to do it is not. >>

bummer, too bad your not calling the shots!

More trendy gimmicks for me!

ms70 · March 21, 2003 1:43AM

Is your last name Hall by any chance?

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 1:45AM

Sic em!

ms70 · March 21, 2003 1:48AM

Post some pics of your car! It looks pretty cool!

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 1:53AM

It has been designated FT, FULL TURBO, this 2002 Turbo S has seen 140mph in 6th gear... And in the picture I'm holding
Tito while walking back to the car on a road trip to Phoenix....

ms70 · March 21, 2003 1:55AM

Nice, but what about the red car in your signature pic?

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 1:56AM

Lucille and Peggy Sue (my VW) discover we are not alone in Roswell New Mexico.

LucyBop · March 21, 2003 2:01AM

FB! FULL BELAIR!!!!!

I tried getting HepDaddyHall to hire me, he said I'll be too much of a distraction to the graders!

ms70 · March 21, 2003 2:10AM

I'll go with the "FB" designation on that! Nice!!

rpmer · March 21, 2003 3:08AM

koynekwest · March 23, 2003 3:29AM

If this is going to be done for Roosevelts, why not do it as well for a series that would really mean something with a full strike-like a full head/hand designation for Walkers or a full braid designation for Buffalos? Or, better yet, why not just a "Full Strike" designation for any series of coins?

smprfi · March 23, 2003 4:00AM

Lucy how did you get the dog to stop shaking long enough to take the picture?

BillJones · March 23, 2003 4:25AM

Full strikes have always been more popular that weak strikes for most items. The few exceptions are very rare die states that certain collectors, who most specialize early copper coins, have taken a fancy to.

The trouble can start when the full strike gets institutionalized in the series. When that happens the coins that do not qualify become less desirable and often less valuable. The series that has achieved the widest acceptance is the “full head” for the Standing Liberty quarters. That is legitimate IMO because the coins look far better when they are well struck. Still even that has its traps because some coins with full heads are lacking other details, which does not seem to matter to many collectors.

With the Morgan dollars “full breast features” could become a designation. The trouble with that is that most date and mint mark combinations always have full breast feathers when they are in Mint State. The exceptions are many of the New Orleans mint dollars. In those cases the grading is used to adjust the price. Coins that might otherwise be graded MS-63 or 64 by the number of marks are down graded to MS-62.

With most other series, “full bands” has gotten a wide acceptance with Mercury dime collectors and “full steps” with the Jefferson nickel people. “Full Bell Lines” are of less interest to Franklin people, and the rest of “the fulls” are still in their infancy.

Why do we see this full torch designation for the Roosevelt dime? I think main reason is that the set really has no outstanding, expensive coin in it. If “full torch” rarity for certain dates can be rooted in collectors’ minds then those who have lots of rolls of Roosevelt dimes will have a potential windfall. That’s what is really driving this, and you want to collect Roosevelts that way, go ahead. It’s your choice, but sure would not be mine. But I’d tread softly until a large number of coins have been graded. The pop reports won’t tell you anything until a large number of coins have been graded or re-graded.

mercurynut · March 23, 2003 5:31AM

Yep what Lucy said in this tread and then some.

LucyBop · March 23, 2003 5:31AM

<< <i>But I’d tread softly until a large number of coins have been graded. The pop reports won’t tell you anything until a large number of coins have been graded or re-graded. >>

Very sound advice. Point taken.

cladking · March 29, 2003 5:38AM

The Roosevelt series has some of the finest 20th century keys in it. There are several
interesting varieties and condition rarities including some which are tough with full strikes.
(especially on the reverse). In addition there is a rare 1964 clad dime, 1964 SMS dime,
1965 silver dime, 1966 and '67 proof dime, 68 No-S dime, '75 No-S dime, '82 NMM dime.

Most of the best Roosys are hardly appreciated since so few people collect them. (except
for the hordes of people who have recently started filling blue folders with the circulating
examples). Perhaps a little attention is just what they need to gain their rightful position.

FULL TORCH

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