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Annoyed question for dealers

EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
Since late last year, a key date higher-grade MS Seated Dollar had been (until very recently) on a fairly well known modest-sized dealer's web site. To my surprise, the coin was also consigned to the Bowers Rarities auction at FUN '03. I won that coin at auction, but did not then realize that the auction coin and the dealer specimen were the same coin.

I went to the dealer's table and inquired about the coin. They (a father/son team) claimed absolutely ZERO knowledge of the coin. I just assumed they forgot -- which was kinda weird -- and walked away.

After the show, I noticed the coin was still on their web site, and I compared my coin to their image. It was the same coin. By this point, several friends of mine also told me about the coin (that's on their web site).

A week or so before Baltimore, I politely emailed these folks about the coin and asked them to look into it.

I find out today that the coin had just been removed from their site. No acknowledgement from them. No thanks, no apologies, nothing.

My question to the dealers is ... how do you think you can get away with this kind of questionable behavior? The Internet is an excellent way of disseminating information.

I am pretty annoyed and will not lightly do business with these people ever again. Moreover, I will not recommend them to any of my friends.

EVP

PS They are members here, but they post very infrequently and primarily to advertise.

How does one get a hater to stop hating?

I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

Comments

  • E,
    A common tactic. Bait and switch. You order the dollar and they send you something else and hope you keep it. I will take some heat,
    but so what. It is hard to find an honest coin dealer. And super hard to find a honest dealer who knows anything. Be careful out there.
    Rusty
  • jbstevenjbsteven Posts: 6,178
    I am not defending the dealers about them claiming zero knowledge but did you pay more for the coin at auction? Maybe they wanted to be anonymous as being the seller. maybe they could not sell the item and put it up for auction.

    I like to look at both sides of a situation before pointing fingers.

    are you mad that you overpaid or are you mad about them claiming zero knowledge of the coin?

    I am not trying to be the bad guy so please do not take it as such.
  • sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500
    Maybe they did not own the coin but were trying to sell it on commssion -

    Maybe the previous owner ran it through the FUN sale and had a reserve set high enough that he was not 100% sure it would sell -

    Maybe the previous owner had it listed at 10 different dealers who all had pictures on the internet and you only knew about one of them -

    Maybe they were similar but different coins -


    Why is it you are annoyed? If you have the coin in your possession, someone wanting to buy it from dealer X (posting coin they do not have) will cause problems for dealer X rather than you.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The two coins are definately the same. I am 100% certain of this -- due to the extreme rarity of the issue and grade as well as the similar description, toning pattern and marks placement.

    I paid *much* less at auction than the dealers had it listed on their site.

    I am annoyed that they claimed ZERO knowledge of the coin. When I mean "they", I mean I spoke to BOTH of the father/son team.

    I am annoyed that they never got back to me.

    I am annoyed that they left the coin on their site for so long -- a few months! And, for 2 months after it was sold!

    They suck. If they were to read this thread, they should know I'm talking about them. (They are non-contributing members here, and only here to peddle their wares.)

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • TonekillerTonekiller Posts: 1,308 ✭✭
    EVP,

    A bit harsh as no harm was done. While I agree with your reasons, you already stated the correct course of action......never to buy from them.

    No need to air it on a public board unless your going to out the parties involved and allow them a defense to your claim. We have mistakenly sold coins at auction or shows before and just plain forgot to remove them from our web site. It’s embarrassing but not done in a mean or unethical manner.

    BTW, glad to see your still around,

    TBT


  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TBT,

    I am airing this because I feel the need to vent. I checked with a few other board members, and they all felt it was reasonable of me to post. So I did. I do not want to name any dealer publicly, but I want to serve notice to all that questionable conduct is unwise now that we're in the Internet age.

    It is my hope that the offending dealer will catch wind of this thread and recognize that I am trying to maintain some degree of anonymity for them and that they will be more careful next time with regard to their conduct.

    Additionally, TBT, I feel that what they did was purposeful and egregious. I don't think it was a simple mistake. This is not a case of their selling a coin and then forgetting to de-list it.

    Finally, I do not question your ethics. As far as I am concerned, I would not be afraid to give you a chance if you have something of interest to me.

    Regards,

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • TonekillerTonekiller Posts: 1,308 ✭✭
    Understood.

    TBT
  • ScarsdaleCoinScarsdaleCoin Posts: 5,179 ✭✭✭✭✭
    with the shear volumn of coins that most dealers handle it may have got lost in the shuffle....certainly they could have emailed you but take it with a grain of salt...
    Jon Lerner - Scarsdale Coin - www.CoinHelp.com
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Jon,

    Would you lose a coin priced at close to $20K?

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I once had a signed contract to purchase an 1894-S dime from a dealer who will remain unnamed. When it came time to deliver the coin, the excuse was that the customer couldn't find it!

    Guess **it happens.... image
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    Ah yes, the old bait and switch. Any possibility that there could have been just an oversight?

    adrian
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    ..
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    Good to have that clarification. I'll change my post to make sure there is no confusion.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EVP,

    I read your opening post three times, and I am still not sure I understand how you were wronged. Is it that the dealer was essentially advertising a specific and unique coin for sale that you owned and was in your possession?

    Respectfully,

    Robert
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Robert:

    Please check out my post timestamped 2:12 PM from today. (If the software adjusts for timezone changes, then it's 2:12 PM Eastern Time.)

    The dealer advertised my coin. Not another coin of the same series, date and grade. The EXACT same coin. And, he had it listed for a long time and claimed no knowledge of it when questioned and never acknowledged my email message.

    As for how I was wronged... Technically, I wasn't wronged in any material way. This post is to serve notice to those dealers with lousy attitudes and business ethics that the Internet-driven world is way too small to allow them to remain the way they are without risk of negative publicity.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • ZerbeZerbe Posts: 587 ✭✭
    EVP, I know how particular you are with dealers, and I am pretty certain I know which dealership you refer to. As you said "you were not wronged materially", so to stop doing business with this dealer does seem harsh, as they are well known to me and have proven to be very ethical. It may be that they are a little embarassed that you got the coin at such a lower price than they had it advertised on their website. I know they have some of their inventory 'on memo' as a lot of dealers do, and that might have something to do with it.
    I am on your side, but knowing these two dealers, I am ttrying to understand why they might have lied to you. Mayby you should call them and explain how you know that it is the same coin, and that will jog their memory. Of course the decision to do, or not do, business with them is entirely up to you, but since even as you said they did no material harm to you, it would be a shame, as they handle so many high end coins: And you know how hard it is to find coins these days.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rude behavior is always more difficult to tolerate when a wrong is not corrected.

    EVP- I understand your frustration and need to vent.
    It would have been so easy for them to recognize their error, corrected it quickly and thanked you for the notification.

    On another, related note:
    Don't hold back! Show us the coin- it sounds like a winner.

    peacockcoins

  • EVP-
    I'm still a little confused about your gripe. What is your basis for stating: "I feel that what they did was purposeful and egregious. I don't think it was a simple mistake. This is not a case of their selling a coin and then forgetting to de-list it."
    It seems to me that it most likely was an honest mistake by the dealer. What incentive would they have had to lie to you about knowing about the coin? And, what incentive would they have had to continue listing a coin that had already sold and that you had already recieved? Are you implying that you did not get the coin after the auction and the dealers were still trying to sell it at a higher price?
    It seems more likely to me that the dealers were simply forgetful and slow. Although they were somewhat rude in not responding to you directly, it appears they did address your concern and remove the coin from their website.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems more likely to me that the dealers were simply forgetful and slow. Although they were somewhat rude in not responding to you directly, it appears they did address your concern and remove the coin from their website.

    JGrech,

    I understand your skepticism. It's ok, as I'm not really looking to name any specific dealer nor slam them publicly. The facts of the case isn't really germane. The point is that in the Internet era, it would be horribly imprudent for dealers to think they can conduct themselves in questionable terms and not get revealed.

    Regards,

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    It sounds like to me that the guy that EVP is irked at was engaged in inappropriate behavior.

    On a related note......

    One of the really cool things about eBay is that when someone buys something off of your site, it goes away.

    I have purhcased things from some dealers that they have had on their web sites and it stays up on their site for days, sometimes weeks. Of course, i don't generally list anything that is also listed somewhere else. It makes them look bad when i offer it for less than they were offering it and when their picture is better than mine. (Ga head...)

    Some web sites are maintained by guys who are just web site maintainers...not maintained by the owners. When these web site tenders don't tend to their business, potentially bad things happen.
  • ANACONDAANACONDA Posts: 4,692
    Also, another cool thing about eBay is the traffic. I list coins all the time that get over 1000 different visitors in one ten day period. One coin i listed got 1800 visitors recently and that ACG MS67 Nickel (yeah, that really really nice coin) got over 4000 visitors in one 10 day period. Show me one private site that has that kind of traffic.

    snake


  • << <i>Show me one private site that has that kind of traffic. >>



    www.pcgs.comimage

    Cameron Kiefer
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if they weren't just embarrassed that the coin sold at a much lower price at auction. I saw something similar last weekend - there was a certain dealer of seated material who had obviously made a mistake on a particular coin (not graded by one of the two major services) - the price kept coming down for weeks on their website, 30-40% less, and when I asked them about it at the show they claimed to have no knowledge of the coin. Yeah, right.
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2022 5:52PM

    EP - What price did coin sell for at auction vs their website? Or for that matter Did you get the auction coin for less?

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What price did coin sell for at auction vs their website? Did you get the auction coin for less?

    This thread is more than 19 years old so you may not get a response to your question. :D

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,614 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What price did coin sell for at auction vs their website? Did you get the auction coin for less?

    This thread is more than 19 years old so you may not get a response to your question. :D

    It sold 13 times since...

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The OP's sigfile seems... ironic.

  • csanotescsanotes Posts: 458 ✭✭✭

    It seems like we are at one of those points on the calendar lately where people dig up threads 18-20 yrs old and just dive right into it like nothing. Tbh tho I am happy to read some of Anacondas thoughts. His bluntness, concise nature, knowledge and activity is missing lately. I hope South America was/is treating him well.

    Chance favors the prepared mind.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 22,994 ✭✭✭✭✭

    . . . never did get to see the coin.

    :/

    peacockcoins

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,123 ✭✭✭✭✭

    there is a story as to why this nondescript thread was resurrected.

    i'd love to know.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • thebeavthebeav Posts: 3,744 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When I read the opening post, I thought EVP got the coin as a 'deal' in auction, but never received it.
    I didn't understand the gripe when I saw he did, indeed get it.
    If I buy a coin that you owned, or once owned, a coin that I'm happy with, I'm afraid I honestly don't care if you want to talk about it or not.

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2, 2022 5:40PM

    Yes it looks like he got the coin he wanted at auction but cheaper than the situation he was making big deal about lol. So the whole thing does not make any sense to me. Go figure…

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Yes it looks like he got the coin he wanted at auction but cheaper than the situation he was making big deal about lol. So the whole thing does not make any sense to me. Go figure…

    I think, nineteen years ago, the OP was displeased because he had purchased a coin but it was still listed for sale on the dealer's site. That's all.

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