Mr. A (legitimate bidder) bids $125 on a coin. Mr. B (shill bidder) bids $155 and is now the high bidder at $127.50 or so.
You enter your snipe bid of $165 with a couple seconds to go, and win the auction for $157.50. True, this is still less than your max bid, but you should have got the coin for $127.50 (next bump over the last legitimate bidder) and you are out $30.
--or--
Mr. A (legitimate bidder) bids $125 on a coin. Mr. B (shill bidder) bids $175 and is now the high bidder at $127.50 or so.
You watch the auction for a few days and enter your snipe bid of $165 with a couple seconds to go, and lose out (the shill bidder is shown as the winner at $167.50). The seller didn't want to take less than $175 for the coin, and they didn't want to pay insertion fees on a $175 starting price, so they start at $1 (to pay a lower insertion fee and attract bidders), use the shill bidder to prop up the price, and you have wasted your time.
Shill bidding happens at real auctions as well as ebay. Many of the big auction companies go on site with their own bidders. I have marked items that I have seen reappear more than 3 times being auctioned by the same company in different locations. I don't go to their auctions any more. It may be illegal, it is unethical, but who is going to prosecute? Shill bidding happens on ebay all the time. It is an unusual situation that someone will actually let an item sell at say 10% of its real value. The real end of the story is BUYER BEWARE. Don't bid more than you want to pay for something.
I am reading this post and am profoundly overwelmed, shaking my head uncontrollably at how naive many of you are. It does not take a rocket scientist (or maybe it does with you guys) to figure out a shill that is so obvious.
Obviously, eBay agreed as the shiller(s) are now "NOT REGISTERED USER"(s).
I have been shilled before and busted the husband and wife team that did me in. And yes I did overpay and yes I did neg the seller.
BTW - I just bought a coin from "Gotnoys". A 1957 MS67 quarter for $55 (B-I-N)!! Great price. But the seller tried to back out saying he would refund my money. He saw the lesser road travelled and delivered the coin.
Needless to say.. (most) you guys / gals are gullible.
Good for you TWQG!! But I am sure the seller will just register again under another name and start all over again. Plus his suspension will probably last only 90 days (I Think).
Sean, I go back and forth between buying at auctions and at shows. Sometimes I feel one or the other is better. If you're worried about shills and shenanigans, then perhaps stick to buying at coin shows (if indeed you have access to some), where you can ask a price, haggle if you feel inclined and make a decision. No one will shill you, and if a price is too steep, you can easily say no. Plus, you get your coin right away .
I paid fair market value for the cent that I won. That is not the point of this thread. I understand all about shills, snipes, max bids, and the pitfalls of ebay.
I did this to expose a thief(ves) and to show anyone interested how I do it.
<< <i>Here is the link where you can report these kinds of things to ebay. >>
-rd5425 Thanks, that linked worked for me and in less than 12 hours. (overnight too)
<< <i>Did this turn out to be the same person or were they a tag team? >>
-Dabigkahuna I was getting ready to probe emom () when she was NARU'd. Only eBay knows for sure.
Russ, WWQ, Solid. -Great points and I concur
"Hey, everyone. Don't have repeat customers, or you are a shiller. If you have bidders from your same state, then you are a shiller. If you provide good coins and service, therefore a customer begins to take up the hobby of coin collecting, then you are a shiller. If you let someone buy their first coin purchased on Ebay from you, then you are a shiller. C'mon!!" "Another case of accusations made with no evidence." "I've looked at both parties bidding/selling practices and both parties' feedback history. I suggest you do the same."-DCAMFranklin that one speaks for itself.
<< <i>people want to pay less than the seller wants to sell it for. It is human nature. >>
-dbldie55 irrelevant
<< <i>i would just leave this situation alone. even if someone did shill, you arent gonna gain anything by acting crazy about the entire situation. you werent meant to win the item either way. next.... >>
-Supracoin welcome to the forum. Would your name be Joe?
<< <i>emom-nc has bought from multiple sellers, and is also a seller. I have also bid on loads of one sellers auctions hoping to capitalize on reduced shipping charges. >>
-Itsnotjustme Thanks Brian for your help.
<< <i>Until dorkkarl pops in to say You got hosed it will have to remain hypothetical. >>
-relayer Its time to bury this thread, but that would be a nice ending
When I saw the user NARU'd, I wondered if the coin I bought would arrive. It came in today--a PR69DCAM 1964 Roosie. So while it appears to have been a shill operation, the good were still delivered.
<< <i>"Another case of accusations made with no evidence." "I've looked at both parties bidding/selling practices and both parties' feedback history. I suggest you do the same."-DCAMFranklin
that one speaks for itself. >>
Be Bop A Lula!! "Senorita HepKitty" "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Seems Ebay was a little hasty with their decision and upon further review have reversed the NARU. Ebay seller Gotnoys is back selling his coins with a perfect, 100% Positive Feedback record.
<< <i>The email I got from Gotnoys would differ from that moronic statement. >>
Sean,
So, are we to assume from your comment that the seller admitted the shilling? Since he had an otherwise clean record, it's pretty obvious that eBay suspended him for the shilling and re-instated him after he promised he wouldn't do it anymore. Anybody who knows anything about eBay practices knows that they frequently let sellers back in after a "warning" suspension.
In two emails the moron explained to me that he thought bidding in his own auctions was an acceptable way of not getting screwed as he was going on vacaction. (His shilling goes back to November)
He called this thread an amusing 'witch hunt' (improper use of the term).
I never responded to the idiot and was ready to let it die when I received the second email stating that no other customers were unhappy and that I should get a life.
That's when I negged the FOOL.
The timing of when he said that he "found" this thread suggests that he posted to it. (see above)
Five day slap on the wrist from ebay and a dishonest thief goes on his merry way.
Comments
Shills can hurt you under your scenario.
Mr. A (legitimate bidder) bids $125 on a coin.
Mr. B (shill bidder) bids $155 and is now the high bidder at $127.50 or so.
You enter your snipe bid of $165 with a couple seconds to go, and win the auction
for $157.50. True, this is still less than your max bid, but you should have got the
coin for $127.50 (next bump over the last legitimate bidder) and you are out $30.
--or--
Mr. A (legitimate bidder) bids $125 on a coin.
Mr. B (shill bidder) bids $175 and is now the high bidder at $127.50 or so.
You watch the auction for a few days and enter your snipe bid of $165 with a couple
seconds to go, and lose out (the shill bidder is shown as the winner at $167.50).
The seller didn't want to take less than $175 for the coin, and they didn't want to
pay insertion fees on a $175 starting price, so they start at $1 (to pay a lower
insertion fee and attract bidders), use the shill bidder to prop up the price, and
you have wasted your time.
Grrrrrrrr
I think eBay agreed with me.
So Sean,
Did this turn out to be the same person or were they a tag team?
Obviously, eBay agreed as the shiller(s) are now "NOT REGISTERED USER"(s).
I have been shilled before and busted the husband and wife team that did me in. And yes I did overpay and yes I did neg the seller.
BTW - I just bought a coin from "Gotnoys". A 1957 MS67 quarter for $55 (B-I-N)!! Great price. But the seller tried to back out saying he would refund my money. He saw the lesser road travelled and delivered the coin.
Needless to say.. (most) you guys / gals are gullible.
Good for you TWQG!! But I am sure the seller will just register again under another name and start all over again. Plus his suspension will probably last only 90 days (I Think).
WWQ
Russ, NCNE
I paid fair market value for the cent that I won. That is not the point of this thread. I understand all about shills, snipes, max bids, and the pitfalls of ebay.
I did this to expose a thief(ves) and to show anyone interested how I do it.
<< <i>Here is the link where you can report these kinds of things to ebay. >>
-rd5425
Thanks, that linked worked for me and in less than 12 hours. (overnight too)
<< <i>Did this turn out to be the same person or were they a tag team? >>
-Dabigkahuna
I was getting ready to probe emom (
Russ, WWQ, Solid. -Great points and I concur
"Hey, everyone. Don't have repeat customers, or you are a shiller.
If you have bidders from your same state, then you are a shiller.
If you provide good coins and service, therefore a customer begins to take up the hobby of coin collecting, then you are a shiller.
If you let someone buy their first coin purchased on Ebay from you, then you are a shiller.
C'mon!!"
"Another case of accusations made with no evidence."
"I've looked at both parties bidding/selling practices and both parties' feedback history. I suggest you do the same."-DCAMFranklin
that one speaks for itself.
<< <i>people want to pay less than the seller wants to sell it for. It is human nature. >>
-dbldie55
irrelevant
<< <i>i would just leave this situation alone. even if someone did shill, you arent gonna gain anything by acting crazy about the entire situation. you werent meant to win the item either way. next.... >>
-Supracoin
welcome to the forum. Would your name be Joe?
<< <i>emom-nc has bought from multiple sellers, and is also a seller. I have also bid on loads of one sellers auctions hoping to capitalize on reduced shipping charges. >>
-Itsnotjustme
Thanks Brian for your help.
<< <i>Until dorkkarl pops in to say You got hosed it will have to remain hypothetical. >>
-relayer
Its time to bury this thread, but that would be a nice ending
<< <i>"Another case of accusations made with no evidence."
"I've looked at both parties bidding/selling practices and both parties' feedback history. I suggest you do the same."-DCAMFranklin
that one speaks for itself.
>>
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Coinlearner, Ahrensdad, Nolawyer, RG, coinlieutenant, Yorkshireman, lordmarcovan, Soldi, masscrew, JimTyler, Relaxn, jclovescoins
Now listen boy, I'm tryin' to teach you sumthin' . . . . that ain't no optical illusion, it only looks like an optical illusion.
My mind reader refuses to charge me....
Dan
Gotnoys
Another case of a baseless accusation made with no verifiable proof.
<< <i>Another case of a baseless accusation made with no verifiable proof. >>
The email I got from Gotnoys would differ from that moronic statement.
<< <i>The email I got from Gotnoys would differ from that moronic statement. >>
Sean,
So, are we to assume from your comment that the seller admitted the shilling? Since he had an otherwise clean record, it's pretty obvious that eBay suspended him for the shilling and re-instated him after he promised he wouldn't do it anymore. Anybody who knows anything about eBay practices knows that they frequently let sellers back in after a "warning" suspension.
Russ, NCNE
He called this thread an amusing 'witch hunt' (improper use of the term).
I never responded to the idiot and was ready to let it die when I received the second email stating that no other customers were unhappy and that I should get a life.
That's when I negged the FOOL.
The timing of when he said that he "found" this thread suggests that he posted to it. (see above)
Five day slap on the wrist from ebay and a dishonest thief goes on his merry way.
That's what I figured.
Russ, NCNE