Baltimore Bowers prices realized?

clueless · March 13, 2003 8:02AM

When does Bowers post their results?

Keyrock · March 13, 2003 9:07AM

I think it will take about a week (if memory serve correct from previous auctions). Hopefully any bidders for the Balt. Auction will know this time next week, they have been pretty slow, however, now that a new capt is at the helm....

Rich

Bustman · March 13, 2003 9:28AM

Yeah I want to know too. I was apparently the internet high bidder on a bust half that I was going after. The only problem is, when I log on to the "my bids" selection, it says I have no bids. Has anyone else had this problem?

NumisEd · March 13, 2003 9:56AM

What did that awesome Vermont Landscape sell for?? Please, please, please.........somebody tell me.

clueless · March 13, 2003 10:22AM

I'm selling 69 lots, but the one I'd mostly like to know about is lot # 2. Does anyone know?

I guess I'll have to wait 'til morning and give them a call.

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 5:35AM

I recorded the "awesome Vermont Landscape", lot 76, as selling to the floor for $7,000 (not including buyer's fee.)

MrEureka · March 16, 2003 5:45AM

Does anyone know what the 1877 $50 Half Union brought?

RKKay · March 16, 2003 5:47AM

Hey, Bustman. I've had the same problem on my bids.

Sunnywood · March 16, 2003 7:06AM

It drives me crazy that B&M doesn't post the prices realized immediately. They could at least post them preliminarily, and say "Unaudited, preliminary prices realized. Subject to confirmation or change upon final audit" or something like that. I had over a dozen high-value lots in that sale, directly and through intermediaries. It drives me nuts not knowing what they went for !!!!!!

Andy, I was the high bidder on that $50 the last time Bowers had it up at auction (was it 1½ years ago at the Summer Rarities Sale? can't remember) ... but that time it didn't meet the reserve. I was going to add it to my 1877 proof set. However, at the moment I am not buying patterns (because they are exploding, and I prefer buying things that everyone else is ignoring !!!). I was a pattern buyer up until about a year ago. Very curious to see what it brough this time though.

If anyone marked down hammer prices for the proof seated dollars, please let me know !!!!!!!

Sunnywood

Sunnywood · March 16, 2003 7:21AM

By the way, when they do finally post the prices realized, this should be the correct link:

Prices Realized - Bowers & Merena Baltimore Sale

If you try it now, it just returns an error. But I'm pretty sure this link will work as soon as they post the prices.

Sunnywood

clueless · March 16, 2003 7:33AM

Maybe you're happier not having the unaudited results. Most of my lots sold Thursday evening, so I called Friday, and they were quite friendly and helpful about giving me the results. I'm hoping that those results were incorrect, though, since 11 of 65 lots hammered for much less than the final bids shown on the internet. It's possible that there's some clerical error, I hope.

Otherwise, I've learned an important lesson - always put reserve prices on everything, since even though you might think you're getting a decent price, it could change.

dbldie55 · March 16, 2003 7:35AM

Sunnywood, that is the link I was "making", adding the correct auctionid to one of the others. Should know by morning. I called them Friday afternoon to try and get the results from a Friday morning lot, but they did not have that info yet.

Sunnywood · March 16, 2003 7:39AM

Hammered for less than the final bids shown on the internet ??? Uh oh. That scares me !!! How can THAT be? Do we think that some of the internet bids are just computer-generated "shill bids" designed to stir up action, and therefore aren't "real" bids?? Anything is possible ...

By the way, ALWAY put reserves on your lots. If you want to get rid of them, set the reserves at 50-60% of market. But that prevents you from getting totally slaughtered at 30-40% of what you paid, or something like that.

Sunnywood

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 8:19AM

Hammered for less than internet bid? Here's one way it could happen: At one of the two sessions I attended two floor bidders complained that the lot up for sale (411 or 412) did not match the description -- one of the coins was an 1818 cent, not an 1816. The auctioneer accepted this and threw out all the absentee bids, starting over again at $25, with the lot getting hammered at $175 or $275.

MrEureka · March 16, 2003 9:00AM

11 of 65 lots hammered for much less than the final bids shown on the internet

Or the mail bidder could have retracted his bid, or the auctioneer could have discarded the bids because the bidder was not legitimate or creditworthy.

Sunnywood · March 16, 2003 9:04AM

Good points guys, thanks for pointing out those possibilities !!!

Sunnywood

IrishMike · March 16, 2003 9:12AM

Creditworthy?? Interesting but I don't think that they check credit. Last year and the year before I spent considerable amounts with B&M in their sales and they didn't ask me for credit information. My first lot I purchased was a MSPL67 Morgan which wasn't chump change, they did not request credit references, in fact the coin was sent out the day after my check arrived there.

clueless · March 16, 2003 9:25AM

I won't really know what's up until tomorrow or the next day, so maybe everything's fine.

One other possible reason I was given was that mail bidders can set a max expenditure limit. Once that limit is reached, the rest of their bids are canceled. Many of these lots decreased by many bidding increments. That makes you wonder when this process is done. Is it after the auction is over? If so, it's not advantageous for the seller.

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 9:37AM

Clueless, why not list your lots from the first two auction sessions, and I'll check my notes for the hammer prices for you. That way you'll have a clue...

MrEureka · March 16, 2003 9:40AM

I don't think that they check credit

What if the bidder still owes them money from the previous auction? Sometimes, you don't have to check.

Sunnywood · March 16, 2003 9:45AM

clueless · March 16, 2003 10:02AM

Thanks, Fountainhead.

The lots that went down rather than up were 2, 16, 53, 54, 57, 59, 67, 151, 176, 183, and 219.

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 11:39AM

O.K., Clueless, here goes:

Lot 2, the 1652 sixpence: $3400 to the book
Lot 16, the 1722 Rosa penny: $200 book
Lot 53 I missed completely; lot 54 was sold under $1,000 to the book.
Lot 57, the 1758/4-A sou maques: $140 book
Lot 59, the 1767-A copper sol: $140 book

Lot 67, the EF Nova Constellatio copper: I may have confused this with lot 68, but I think it opened at $500, and sold for $550 to the floor. Or lot 66, which I recorded as opening at $650, and selling for $2200 to the floor. There were many mistaken bids throughout the floor sessions, mainly because people confused an illustration with the description above it, not the description below. But at this point, I was just trying to scarf down my sandwich. Sorry!

Lot 151, the 1786 NJ copper: $160 book
Lot 176, the 1773 Garrett counterfeit Brit: $160 book
Lot 183, the 1775 Garrett counterfeit Brit: $325 floor
Lot 219, the pair of "1781" tokens: $275 floor

I've done my poor best. Prices without buyer's fee, of course. Note, however, that B&M carries several "books": The computer containing internet bids, a paper ledger of mail bids, and yet another book, I think, of bids for their own account! (This is not Dave Bowers' company anymore!) If the person you spoke to had not reconciled all three books with the floor record, then the prices you were given are likely to be incorrect.

Does anyone know the hammer prices for Lots 3373 and 2721? I couldn't attend the Friday night & Saturday sessions because of the Sabbath.

clueless · March 16, 2003 12:03PM

Hey, Fountainhead - thanks a lot for your help!!

Several of those results were different from anything I've heard, so I'll just keep waiting.

Could I ask one more?
lot 252.

Johnscoin · March 16, 2003 12:10PM

Argh! In-house bids do not make me happy...I feel it is unfair to all of the bidders...That's why I don't bid at some other auction companies...
Oh well, I feel better now...

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 12:29PM

Clueless: Lot 252 opened at $300, and sold in hot action to the floor for $1200! Congrats!

Johnscoin: Dave B. declared he had a policy of not bidding at his own auctions -- at least against floor bidders -- because he didn't believe in competing with his customers. The only time I saw him bid on anything was last fall, when he picked up a few rolls of Liberty nickels that absolutely no one was interested in, and maybe no one had even submitted an internet bid for. Too late, I realized that as a sure indication that the market in Lib nics had bottommed. (But he still wouldn't touch those dead Franklins.) During the second session, Paul Montgomery was clearly making decisions, whether or not to bid on certain coins, like lot 1071, the 1916 Matte Proof-67 Buffalo nickel, which he picked up for $5050.

dbldie55 · March 16, 2003 12:35PM

Did you happen to jot down lot #1034?

clueless · March 16, 2003 12:41PM

Hey, thanks again!! The guy who was giving me results couldn't read his list for 252.

Now I'm just sad that they're all gone.

Fountainhead · March 16, 2003 12:47PM

Lot 1034, the 1899 Proof-66 nickel, sold for $650 to a "mail" bid - whatever that means.

Note that, for the first time in my short experience, B&M partnered with a local auctioneering firm, J. Edwards, to do some of the hog-calling, so the terms may be a bit different. Guess the last month or so of "retirements" has left B&M a little short-handed.

Good night!

scher · March 16, 2003 1:23PM

i bid on a nice iowa in ms 68,,any clue on that one?
bruce scher

Fountainhead · March 17, 2003 3:51AM

http://www.bowersandmerena.com/auctions/previous_listings.chtml?catid=494&auctionid=11437&auctid=11437&requesttimeout=9999

Auction prices are now available at the link above but some of them appear to be wrong!

For one of my lots, 3373, I was the internet high bidder. The final bid recorded is less than my max bid + 15% -- but I still lost! Someone has some explaining to do!

dbldie55 · March 17, 2003 3:58AM

<< <i>http://www.bowersandmerena.com/auctions/previous_listings.chtml?catid=494&auctionid=11437&auctid=11437&requesttimeout=9999

Auction prices are now available at the link above but some of them appear to be wrong!

For one of my lots, 3373, I was the internet high bidder. The final bid recorded is less than my max bid + 15% -- but I still lost! Someone has some explaining to do!

>>

Same for me. I called and the lot I was high internet bidder on closed for my high internet bid. I had bid higher. When I go to "My Lots" it shows my high bid and the winning bid (plus buyers fee) and my bid is more, but it shows me as having been outbid.

I am going to call them again this afternoon, but they said they will not know what is going on until tomorrow.

tradedollarnut · March 17, 2003 4:03AM

Rusty: note that I nailed the 1881 PF68 trade dollar - $24,000 plus the juice!

Fountainhead · March 17, 2003 4:06AM

I'm very, very, glad I took notes on the open and hammer prices of all the lots I could. Anyone else with discrepancies from the first two auction sessions -- lots 1 through 1793 -- can ask me for my data.

dbldie, note that B&M's announced policy is in case of a tie between floor and book (internet or mail) bid, the mail bidder wins.

clueless · March 17, 2003 4:25AM

Fountainhead -
John Pack would like to know the lot number that was sold for less than your internet bid.

You can call him at 800 458-4646, or post it here and I'll tell him.

Thanks.

This is all rather mysterious...

Elcontador · March 17, 2003 5:25AM

I got my Seated Half, though there was a mix up and it'll take a bit longer than anticipated to get here. No complaints, though.

Fountainhead · March 17, 2003 5:38AM

Intriguing. I won the lot in question, but the little red check mark indicating I didn't was incorrect. Everything O.K. now!

Thanks, Clueless!

dbldie55 · March 17, 2003 5:59AM

My high bid was above the closing price. I just confirmed I was indeed the winner of my lot. Now I have an Eliasberg for my Proof collection. I was informed that when the sale goes to the floor, all internet bids get marked with the red x on the "My Lots" page. A little behind Heritage, but as long as I get the lot I should, I really do not care.

roadrunner · March 17, 2003 9:50AM

I was surprised at the number of seated and bust coins (mostly slabbed UNCs and PFs) that did not sell. The PR list almost looked like a ghost town in many areas. Very few pieces brought great prices.

I thought Sunnywoods monstrous 1872 seated dollar in PCGS PF65
(but a true 66) would bring at least the same as it did at Vermeulle with all the interest in colorful and impressive coins today. However, It brought about 10% less than the Vermeulle price ($21850 in Baltimore). The market is funny at times with plastic biases and coins that are not absolutely fresh to the market. It almost brings up a point that you gotta grab for all the gusto the first time around. Bidders seem to have very long memories these days about lots that have appeared recently before.

roadrunner

Baltimore Bowers prices realized?

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