Yet another veteran Leaves the Bowers and Merena Force

coinchallenged

Wanted to let you all know that I heard from a very reliable source that Frank Van Valen turned his resignation in today. I don't know whats going on up there in NH but something must be shaking them up. Could Bowers and Merena be California bound?

Lakesammman

Makes the most sense.

dorkkarl

wow, another legendary name gone . . . . . . . . *poof*

K S

Typetone

Sorry guys:

I don't think Bower's and Merena was very well run. The auctions were terrible. It needed to be shaken up. David Bowers is a great guy, one of the best, but new management was required.

Greg

EVillageProwler

My experience with B&M Auctions have always been great. No issues whatsoever. And, since they know me by face and name, they also been very pleasant with me.

That being said, I've not had a problem with ANY of the auction companies (Stack's, Heritage, Superior, Goldberg, Smythe, Kolbe).

Knock on wood.

EVP

CarlWohlforth

I always looked at a change of jobs for whatever reason as an opportunity. Perhaps Mr. Van Valen is not gone. Maybe he will resurface? Perhaps in a different role.

Maybe LucyBop can find him a job. After all I read in the biography that is still on the B&M site that "Frank is also an avid collector and knowledgeable specialist in 1950s-era vocal group 45 rpm and 78 rpm records."

jom

<< <i>Could Bowers and Merena be California bound? >>



The only one left that I know of is Mark Brockart (SP?). And, yes, I think B&M is going to be closing it's doors in NH....pretty soon I think.

jom

DHeath

Just got my new catalog today, and Q.David was still writing commentary. Perhaps I'll keep this one.

coinchallenged

Which catalog still has the commentary? I think B&M botched the Rare Coin Review by leaving QDB's intro in that one. I don't think you'll see anymore B&M catalogs with QDB commentary.

I agree with typetone up to a point. B&M started going down hill just after Collectors Universe bought them out. I don't they fit into the publicly owned company realm very well.

RegistryCoin

<< <i> I don't [think] they fit into the publicly owned company realm very well. >>


As we look back at the prolific rate that companies went public, we may see from this example and many others, that this may be perfectly correct.

nwcs

I think this is one of those generational occurrences. Outside of QDB, I have never heard of anyone that has been mentioned surrounding Bowers and Merena. Most likely because I have not been a serious collector for a very long time. So I suppose my attitude is that people change, companies change, fact of life. Good people will typically find another position in the industry. And sometimes that can be a good thing for the hobby, the person, and the company.

Just looking at this from a different perspective.

Neil

NumisEd

I think that CU is making a brilliant tactical move by eliminating all of the experienced numismatists at B&M. Canning all of the seasoned numismatic veterans and replacing them with non-collectors from other industries will show everyone that B&M is young and energetic. Isn't that what we all want? Who cares about having a knowlegable staff of numismatists at a coin company? It's more important to have people who fit the corporate mold and look good in the company picture on the front of the prospectus.

dragon

Typetone,

I would tend to disagree with that, I have had many dealings with B&M auctions in the past (both as buyer and consignor) and their service, photography, descriptions, as well as service and terms has always been first rate and very professional IMO. I think they are light years better than Heritage in every possible aspect.

dragon

Johnscoin

When someone said, that B and M wasn't run well what were you basing this upon?
Their management and customer service were probably the best in the business. I'll miss Mr. Van Valen too. He was a very interesting person and had some eclectic interests. I hope he indeed resurfaces soon.
As far as the auctions, the Bowers ones were always the most interesting in person. Especially when someone would bid on the wrong item. They would back up a lot and redo it if necessary. The entire staff was always friendly too...

NumisEd

Aha! I just solved this little mystery: QDB, VanValen and the other's who have already left are forming a new rare coin company. Either that or they are forming a new rock band called VanValen.

EVillageProwler

Either that or they are forming a new rock band called VanValen.

Picture QDB wearing leather, his tongue painted, hair dyed, and jumping up and down on a stage shouting at the top of his lungs!

LOL!

EVP

tradedollarnut

I'd really rather not!

buster

In my experience with Bowers and Merena, I felt their retail prices were almost criminal for most of the material they offered. The website never had images of the coins you wanted to see and it wasn't updated in a timely fashion. I've called on numerous occaisions to make a purchase only to find out the item was sold two weeks ago. Dave is a great guy, don't get me wrong. He has done so much for this hobby, but I found for me, and I can only speak for myself, that Bowers and Merena didn't work unless I wanted to buy a book or two. I hope this shake up makes the firm a place I can once again do business with.

Bill

Collecting Early Bust Quarters by die variety.

MadMonk

I actually was only ever able to buy 2 coins from Bowers and Merena, and tried about 15. They were consistently overhyped, misdescribed, answers were cleverly phrased to mislead, and try to get a sale. So, from my perspective,
I feel no sense of loss, and the hobby will be better off.

Typetone

From a corporate viewpoint, how did Bowers fit into the CU mix. Clearly they did not need a clone of DHRC. Why have two divisions doing the exact same things (ie, high margin retailing)? Clearly, Bowers was to be about auctions. But, they were losing out to Heritage. In a thread a few months (maybe on the set registry board) ago many members pointed out auction horror stories. For example, I had a situation where my on-line bid simply did not get represented in the auction. I was 20% bid over the final hammer. The company admitted their mistake, but refused to make anyone whole. I thought this was an isolated instance, but many members had similar stories. Also technologically, Bowers is behind. In a Heritage auction one can bid on-line and real time through Ebay. Not so with Bowers. No, they need to change to stay competitive with Heritage.

Greg

MrEureka

B&M's retail efforts do something important that very few other retailers do. They provide the historical and numismatic context in which their coins can be better appreciated. Apparently, too much effort went into creating collectors and too little into keeping customers. One strength, one weakness. Now, their strength is gone. They have a helluva challenge ahead of them.

Trime

It seems as though there is some confusion among forum members is their respect for QDB as a Numismatist and the critical role of B&M in the industry. Few would disagree that Dave is a major contributor to the discipline and few would disagree that B&M handled some great coins at auction. DH bought some of the competition, is losing money on several fronts and is consolidating. It never was clear to me why CU should have so many retail faces. I for one, inventory aside, do not think they ( CU) run a business nearly as seamless as Heritage does. This is really a naive opinion since I have never tried to do from what I speak. The nice thing about this forum is any of us can give opinions about things comnpletely out of our expertise.

Elcontador

I sincerely hope Frank Van Halen resurfaces, and soon. Most of my dealing with B & M were with him and the guy is as honest as the day is long. Since Bowers is back East, I could never physically view an auction coin. Frank was very candid re coin consultations, and if he said that a coin was nice for the grade, I could take his word for it and put in a strong bid.

AndrewBowers

<< <i>Either that or they are forming a new rock band called VanValen.

Picture QDB wearing leather, his tongue painted, hair dyed, and jumping up and down on a stage shouting at the top of his lungs!

LOL!

EVP >>



UGH....

MrEureka

UGH....

Andrew, did this bring back some memories you would like to share with us???

Sunnywood

Andrew !!!

Yeah I can't imagine any son wanting to picture his dad that way !!!!

Personally I thought B&M was exceptionally well run. It had a certain character, part QDB as historian, part QDB as numismatist; plus an academic approach to cataloguing (which some of the other companies could do better at); plus a dose of New Hampshire quaintness and charm. I agree with the criticism that the retail pricing was extremely high, but I imagine that it found a certain equilibrium like any free and competitive market. If B&M was able to charge those prices, it must be that customers felt they were getting value. Anyway, I don't know the revenue breakdown, but I always viewed B&M primarily as the high-end auction house, not as a prime retail operation. I loved their catalogs, and their auctions (i.e. as a floor bidder). I didn't buy retail from them, but I certainly bought at their auctions.

B&M couldn't have been so badly run ... after all, it was apparently a desirable acquisition target !! But quaint New Hampshire charm and studious numismatic authorship probably have no place in the slick L.A. epicenter of BIG MARKETING and THE BIZ. Bad mix. I saw it coming in the Kingswood auctions, which were a joint David & Dave venture. I thought "what on earth are these two teaming up for !!" Seemed like oil & water to me. Look at their books: "Adventures with Rare Coins" vs. "A Mercenary's Guide to the Rare Coin Market." Different personalities!!

Sunnywood

michael

i agree with buster and madmonk

for better or worse

they hit the nail right on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerely michael

CYBERKEN

Agreed. In fact, CU has no business in the public company realm, either. I expect they will eventually go private.

In the 70's, Bowers and Ruddy sold out to General Mills. I believe GM was looking for an inflation hedge. But they made the same grievious error you see frequently in the business world: buying into a business they knew NOTHING about. Finally, GM sold, and it bacame Bowers and Merena (who were both esteemed numismatists).

On the plus side, QDB must have made JAKE both times he sold. Good for you, Dave!!!

B & M will be one of CU's mistakes. One of many...

CYBERKEN

"Aha! I just solved this little mystery: QDB, VanValen and the other's who have already left are forming a new rare coin company. Either that or they are forming a new rock band called VanValen."

Maybe they are planning to form a crackout shop-then gripe incessently on this thread that "We can't get the material we need to 'service' collectors, because PCGS grades 'too tight'".

oreville

Isn't it ironic that Bowers & Merena once owned a third party grading service called HALLMARK?

Now, I just can't believe that I was the first one to finally see this ironic connection? What made me take so long to realize this???

coinguy: Does this count towards my audition? I am not a poem and skit sort of guy just a riddles and ironic and "believe it or not" sort of guy.

Fountainhead

B&M dropped Frank from its "Meet the Staff" webpage Tuesday night; he was still listed on it Tuesday morning.