POLL: Would you buy from a dealer who sells ACG, NTC, SEGS, etc. as well as PCGS, NGC, & ANACS?

DesertLizard

Please vote and post comments. I'll post mine later.

fantasiize

Sure, why not. If I like the coin I would buy it.

The coin will probably be raw, PCGS, NGC, ANACS or maybe, just maybe, under closer review ICG.

ARCO

I look for original properly graded coins at the right price. If they sold tupperware on the side I would buy from them if they had the coins I wanted. I probably wouldn't ask too much advice about coins however!

Tyler

darktone

Yes I would. I think you would have a hard time finding a dealer that has not had most of those slabs at one time in his career. mike

fcloud

If you are buying the coin and not the holder, it shouldn't matter. Hopefully the prices reflect the coin inside the holder, and not the plastic grades.

airplanenut

I don't want to support a full ACG dealer, but say they bought an estate, so they had 5 for sale because they were part of a 1,000-coin lot... it depends on the circumstances.

Jeremy

GaCoinGuy

Ditto what Jeremy said.

Barry

Definitely not. A dealer who makes most of his living with ACG/NTC/new PCI slabs has no morals or ethics, in my opinion. I would not want to give him any business.

wingedliberty

I would still buy from them, providing the ACG,NTC, SEGS, PCI, were not predominant in their inventory,
If they had one or two sporatic coins, it would not bother me. If their inventory was more than 25%
of that, then I would worry.

Brian.

DesertLizard

Very interesting results so far. I guessed more would have said "no". This however, confirms why and how many "subpar-slab" dealers manage to survive and even thrive, especially on ebay.

I decided to do this poll when I met a fellow last week who told me he sells exclusively online via ebay, Yahoo, teletrade and others. He said his business was 100% non PCGS and NGC. He only sold NTC, ACG, SEGS and an occaissional ANACS. This is a fellow who has dealt in coins for over 20yrs so he knows the "game" and has seen alot.

When I asked why he dealt in such material he replied "You hunt where the deer are grazing". Hmmm, what a picture. Without prompting he claimed he netted over $100,000/yr. Not bad but can he sleep at night!! I suspect he nets way above that given the things I know about him.

Maybe a better poll would be would you do the same if you were given the opportunity. Sell subpar slabs and earn 100k/yrs.?

BTW, I voted NO in the survey.

relayer

NEVER - Coins should only be in PCGS plastic

LucyBop

You left out ICG, DCAMFranklin pointed out awhile back that many GEMS can be found in the proof Franklins.... I have found nothing to dispute his statement..... I am more then happy to buy a lower price DCAM/CAM in a ICG slab......

sinin1

Teletrade only takes PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG

If you bought a XF45 generic silver dollar in NTC ( nothing rare but still worth about $60) , how many people would 1)crack it out and sell it raw or 2)crack it out and send it to PCGS, or 3) sell it as is in NTC slab??

ElmerFusterpuck

The COIN comes first, then the holder. It's pretty easy to see which holder has more dogs, but I have seen a few good ones and have known of successful crossovers. Blindly saying 'PCGS only' can get you burned too.

ursabear

Most definitely would look at the coin, then the dealer/seller, then the slab - so Yes, someone who sells a variety of options is OK by me.

I'm just after the coin, anyway.

Conder101

As long as they had raw coins, sure!

Also, if you pactice "buy the coin not the slab", would you think it would be right for dealers or other collectors to refuse to buy coins from you just because you owned some ACG slabs?

Barry

The number of positive answers surprise me. Why would you support someone whose primary way of making a living is ripping people off whenever he can? Would you hire a photographer who was known to do child porn?

BillJones

I buy coins, not holders. If the price is right I'd buy it. Chances are it won't be, however, because some of the people who deal extensively in brand X slabs usually have big mark-ups on everything. And if they do have a good coin, and they know it, they want all the money.

Steve27

One of my favorite dealers, whom I see at the local coin show, has a single ACG slab in her case (along with a bunch of other different types of slabs). She grades honestly and has good prices; thus, I like dealing with her.

dwood

Barry,
No greater foe hath virtue than greed.

Gilbert

It would be a maybe for me, but I selected "not sure," because you didn't quite have the alternative for me. I wouldn't patronize a dealer who predominantly submits to the 2nd tier services, but neither would I penalize a dealer who may have relieved some collector of some of their "less wise" acquisitions.

Hey Barry,
Would you hire a photographer who was known to do child porn?
Bad analogy. I MIGHT hire a photographer who used something other than Kodak, though. (more appropriate analogy)

Bear

I would think, with few exceptions, that the majority of qualty slabs a dealer carries

would be one of the indications of a quality dealer.I am glad so many

Forum members are so confident in their eye and grading skills. But for the rest

of us humble folks, quality slabs are an indication of a quality dealer along with

integrity, good service and wise council to the collector.

dorkkarl

i only buy coins from dealers who sell . . . . uh . . . . coins.

K S

nwcs

Sure, why not? If they have a nice coin, I'll buy it. But they better not expect to get the same price. My local coin shop guy thinks the grade on the slab is unquestionable. He prices a MS-64 from PCGS the same as PCI, SEGS, NGC, etc.

MacCoin

I would buy from anyone if they had the coin I needed at the right price. I won't care what else they sell.

DesertLizard

I always wondered how ACG and the others stayed in business since so many swore off their slabs. But I now understand everyone has their price.

I feel a knowledgeable dealer will not sell his customers sub par or questionable material. Remember a dealer sees more coins in a year than most of us see in 10yrs. They know what they are doing to the point it is almost instinctive. Selling ACG, NTC, SEGS, etc. and knowing what is known about these firms is reason enough for me to look elsewhere to take my business.

A serious dealer who has customer interests as a priority will sell PCGS & NGC [ANACS maybe].

DCAMFranklin

DesertLizard- That would be your OPINION. There are plenty of 3rd tier services' coins being purchased out there. Obviously, there is a market for those coins. That is not an opinion, that is a fact. A very substantial majority of those coins are purchased by collectors that cannot afford the coins in the PCGS and NGC holder. A significant portion of the coins are purchased by collectors/dealers with an eye for grading, hoping to cross the coins to a 1st tier service. When a dealer chooses to not offer coins in the 2nd tier and 3rd tier holders, then they choose to not be a source for those collectors. Any dealer making such a choice will earn your business and the business of like-minded collectors. However, they will also lose the business of the lower end market.

The lower end market has MANY more potential customers, larger number of coins sold per customer, faster turnaround times from the grading service, higher gross margins per coin and substantially faster turnover of inventory. The last characteristic provides the opportunity to use free funds quicker to start the process over again. Personally, I don't utilize this philosophy. However, it sure easy to see why certain dealers make such a decision.

All one has to do is check out the auctions of CENTSLES on Ebay and see how many Members here are bidding (and winning) on his auctions.

Mark

Bear:

Good point, as always. One thing that strikes me as I wonder around major shows such as FUN is that dealers who have a lot of ACG and NTC slabs tend to have very few, if any, PCGS or NGC slabs. And, dealers who have a lot of PCGS and NGC slabs tend to have very few, if any, ACG and NTC slabs. I think that dealers generally specialize--some specialize in PCGS and NGC coins and others specialize in other companies' slabs.

I sometimes wonder what I would think if I were a beginning collector--would I notice this specialization and what would I think about it? I hope that I would notice it and that it would, at the very least, make me ponder a bit....

Mark

DesertLizard

A very substantial majority of those coins are purchased by collectors that cannot afford the coins in the PCGS and NGC holder.

I agree, a MS64 in NTC should cost less than a PCGS MS64. Trouble is the novice thinks he/she is getting the same "service". I say they would be better off buying the PCGS or NGC in the lower grade they can afford. There is a reason coins are not NGC or PCGS slabs and many continue to overlook that basic fact.

A significant portion of the coins are purchased by collectors/dealers with an eye for grading, hoping to cross the coins to a 1st tier service.

A "significant portion"? Coins that end up in the 3rd tier slabs are there for a reason. They have been body bagged elsewhere or they aren't worth the fee to be slabbed at the top slabbers.

My advice to those who tread in the 3rd tier slab land, try to sell your coins on the bourse floor. Don't listen to opinions here, go out and test the waters yourself. That will be an education.

dweeberlord

Sometimes the only reason a coin is in a third-tier holder is because it will grade a little higher. It might still be a great coin, just overgraded. I've bought very overgraded ACG coins, cracked them out, and sold them raw at their true(IMO) grade for a decent profit. But also when I was starting out I couldn't grade very well and got burned a few times. I think the bottom line is in this business you really need to know your coins if you are putting down a signifigant amount of money.

Bear

Its a bit strange that this Forum generally degrades the lower tier grading companies and

praises the PCGS, NGC and anacs tier. However, when the question is asked about dealers

who primarily carry lower tier graded coins, the response is overwhelmingly positive. There is anomaly

here. Since we know, or should know, quality coins are graded by quality grading services for the

greatest part, and the chances of getting lower tier graded coins that will upgrade to top tier is very low.

What do you hope to gain by playing the lottery. Of looking for that rare an illusive quality coin in a

poor quality service holder. As for newbies, this is a most dangerous game and one I assure you will

only lead to grief, dissappointment and economic loss. Even in the top grading companies, one must

exercise good judgement and selectivity. Unless a newbie was born with the EYE, and has experience

behind them, they have a better odds of retaining their money going to Vegas, then in purchasing

lower tiered grading company product. The ever cautious little bear.

RGL

Very good points made both by DCAMFrank and Bear ... but, it ultimately boils down to "buy the coin, not the plastic.'' A judicious eye and a bargain-based buying strategy can indeed upgrade or cross coins in lower tier holders ...

Merc

This happened to me at my last coin club's show. I was after a 1942 PF65 red Lincoln to finish my 1942 Proof set. One guy had one but wanted too much. The show was small enough for me to look at all of the tables. I came back the second day to volunteer. I walked around once more to see what people had. One dealer had nothing but ACG and a few raw coins. Then I saw he had 1 1942 PF65 red Lincoln in an older NGC holder. I must have missed it earlier. It had a great deep red color. I asked about it and he gave a fair price so I bought it. I didn't care about the other coins he had. This one was the one I needed.

lathmach

Sure I'd buy from a dealer that sold 2nd tier slabbed coins.
Why not? I buy the coins, not the plastic.
I only have a few slabbed coins. They're PCI and ANACS.
I bought these coins because they are rare die varieties.
I've been collecting 46 years and can grade and authenticate for myself.
If I see a rare coin that I can cherrypick cheap that's in any type holder I'll buy it from any dealer.


Ray

mr3holesinone

I would certainly buy from a dealer selling second or third tier grading service slabs. The chances I'd buy anything but ANACS, NGC or PCGS would be pretty slim. In fact, I'd probably buy a raw coin before one of the lower grading service slabs.

jom

<< <i>Sure I'd buy from a dealer that sold 2nd tier slabbed coins. Why not? I buy the coins, not the plastic. >>



Thank you! Common sense for once!

jom

michael

for me

if i was looking at coins
i would buy the coin not the slab if i saw an acg or whatgever slab and i wanted the coin for whatever reason i would ask the price
if i liked the price i would buy it if not i would pass

if you cant
evaulate a coin by yourself and cant tell what it is worth to you
do not buy it until you get more experienced or can have it independently evaulated from someone you trust!

sincerely michael