Why does a business strike command a higher price then the Proof that may be 1 or two grades higher?

JOHNandBEA

If a proof isn't a grade, then why would a ms67 coin command more then a PR69DCAM of the same type ? Are they graded differently aside from the cam part?

I'm very new so bear with me.

John

ClausUrch

In most instances, a MS67 business strike is a more difficult grade to achieve than a PR69. MS coins, for the most part, are minted for circulation and use different dies and striking pressure than a Proof coin which has special polished dies and higher and/or multiple strikes. A PR69 might be the normal strike while a MS65 could be the norm in MS.

Gilbert

Precisely. The care in striking "proofs" far exceed that for "business" strikes, therefore, higher grades are expected of proof issues. Finding the level of detail and workmanship in a coin designed to circulate appears to be more desirable for many collectors.

jom

It comes down to supply and demand. If the number of available proofs in a particular series is MORE than an MS coin in the same grade (or even a higher grade) the MS will cost more assuming the same demand.

jom

DesertLizard

Theoretically, proofs are bought by collectors and have more available in better condition. Business strikes are intended for circulation and get worn so fewer are available in perfect condition.

JOHNandBEA

But its a bit confusing, so you have to view them as almost two different coins , as different as a cent to a dime? It seems that if I were going to add the BEST looking coin ,say 37-d, to my collection I could put the proof in there if it was the best I found, but you cannot mix them.

Its interesting...

John

Thanks for the replies........

CLASSICS

also remember proof coins were meant to be saved, they were special made coins for collectors..... they used special polished dies and paid carefull attention to them when they were made. business strikes were just banged out so to speak, and used in everyday transactions......so....business strikes would only be found in higher grades if a collector just happened to put some away.........

FatMan

John

You are correct to view them as different coin as they are different coins. They use different planchets, different dies, and different manufacture processes. Proofs and Business strikes are often collected as different series. If you are collecting a type set each is seen as a separate type. Best looking is relative. Some prefer the appearance of proof coins, some prefer the look of the business strike. Thats what makes this a great hobby. So many choices. Just collect what you like. Oh, price of each is simple - its just as jom says above........its called supply and demand.

cladking

In many cases there are lots of differences between a mint state and proof coin.
Mint mark is often one of them. There is no 37-D proof, so a mint state example
is required if you need that date/mm. Even where both a proof and mint state coin
both exist there are differences. The 74-S cent for example looks much different
in P or MS. The proof example will usually look very shiny and be well struck with
squared rims and the MS coin will typically be much less shiny and far less likely to
be well struck. It is an acquired taste for most people, but often the MS coins are
harder to find and far harder to find nice.

nwcs

When you consider how business strike coins are made, the fact that any of them can be MS67 or higher is beyond extraordinary!

jdimmick

Reviewing the prior threads pretty much sums it up. Proofs were mainly created as coins/specimens for collectors, most were kept in cabinets, hid away (preserved) in the conditon as struck, in addition to the differences in the original striking. Years ago, most collectors concentrated on the proof versions of such like indians, buffalo, and earlier.

But in this modern era of collecting, last 25 years+ or More, Collectors have learned the true value and scarcity of a true buisness strike coins which were really not intended to be collected but rather for commerce. This is where the difficulty in finding nice high end mintstate coins gets difficult depending on the series.

Additionally, I think that some coins in mintstate have suffered (or a least not bloomed )in the past few years due to this.
Examples:
The 1885 Liberty nickel in proof, available all day long for a sum of 800.00 + or - depending on condition. Only recently have people began to pass on the proof versions and want to obtain the true ms buisness strike specimens for advanced collections. (Years ago, there were any number of people who simply put the proof version in that unc set of Liberty nickels. ) As I mentioned, I think this is begining to change as people learn the difference. (In fact, if not for the proof versions, some of these dates would be a lot higher than they are to start with.

Other examples that come to mind are 1877 Indian 1c, 1856 FE, 1894-P $

As for older proof type examples, I still think there is a solid market for the true proof collectors, but I am not experienced in this end of the market so prefer not to comment.

Just some thoughts
jim d

JOHNandBEA

Thanks everyone, alot of good points, I had been wanting to ask that for awhile.


Appreciate the responses...


John

OneYearTypes

So, now that you know with all that's been said, why don't you just go out and start your own toned proof-like mint state set