There is a place where PCGS and NGC desperately need to tighten their grading standards …
BillJones
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And that place is in the grading for circulated key date coins like the 1916-D Mercury dime, 1877 cent, 1909-S Indian cent and most every other key date coin.
The trouble is if the services started to fix the problem there would be two standards. There have so many overgraded coins in the market now, there would have to be a massive buy-back campaign or a collapse in the value most of the slabbed coins that are now in dealers’ inventories and collectors’ hands.
For that reason there will never be a fix for this problem. PCGS and NGC have lower standards permanently.
The trouble is if the services started to fix the problem there would be two standards. There have so many overgraded coins in the market now, there would have to be a massive buy-back campaign or a collapse in the value most of the slabbed coins that are now in dealers’ inventories and collectors’ hands.
For that reason there will never be a fix for this problem. PCGS and NGC have lower standards permanently.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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i don't think the problem you speak of is limited to just PCGS/NGC and that it only swings in the direction of overgrading. i think most services tend to be too focused on mint state and proof coins and the natural tendency is lack of proper attention to circulated grades. the local dealer recently bought several ANACS holdered buffalo's that he thought were undergraded and since he isn't big on slabbed coins he cracked them out, 2x2'd them and sold them raw. the topper is that he usually grades conservatively.
al h.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I think that is putting it politely.
The whole system is unfair. The small collectors who can least afford get hosed while the bigger guys have a chance of getting a fair value.
But like I said, a several huge herds of horses are out of the barn, and it would cost a fortune to round them up.
We want the services to GRADE coins rather than PRICE them.
Another change of standards with a corresponding change in the insert color should fix the problem.
But then there's that pesky problem in the PCGS Customer Bill of Rights under Product Reliability that says: In the event that PCGS developes and uses different coin holders, each authorized dealer will treat and deal with all PCGS coins without any distinction based on that type of holder.
I guess it's a product reliability problem.
I just read something very dissheartining in the Q & A forum. Mark asked David how much was spent on the grade guarentee last year, the answer was very shockingly small. Someone told me that whe i tried the grade guarantee last month that unless the mistake was flagerent, they would do nothing about it.
When dealing with rare bust coins or high grade mint state or proof coins the difference between a single point can be hundreds or even thousands of dollars.
If p.c.g.s. even recognized 1% of its coins as overgraded it would probably brake the bank at headquarters. I suggest folks concerned about this read Marks question and Davids answer about the money spent on the guarentee per year.
If they were to take circulated coins and just verified their authenticity, put them in a less expensice slab, that would help the market a great deal! Oh my goodness, like the old days. In completing several sets in Dansco albums, I felt hamstrung buying graded coins to complete the sets. Buy in reality, I just wanted nicely struck coins that were real and not faked, copied, cast, etc.
The new attributes are killing me and should be stopped!{'*' designation, etc.} What is that saying about my older coins that were purchased because of eye appeal.
Things need to be revamped at all companies and the circulated coins should be for the collectors!!
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Very good comment, and definitely true. As a buyer and collector of mostly key-date specimens, I have noticed a strong loosening of the grading standards on the pieces you mentioned in the past few years.
1877 indian cents with barely visible detail to make a fine, getting slabbed into vf holders. Todays XF's looking like vf-25/30 pieces etc .
Lincolns, mercury's, buffalo's all following the same trail.
Fortunately, most of my pieces were aquired before the loosening and are now what would be considered strong for the grade in todays standards. Also, I have purchased older slabbed key's that have been sitting in collections for some years.
Another example: One of the key-dates that I never managed to get around to upgrading till about a year ago was the 1916-d mercury. I wanted a nice Solid VF example, to me that was the toughest mid circulated grade to find. I actually ended up having to purchase a PCGS vf-35 coin to get what I thought was a nice solid for the grade VF coin. I see merc's getting into fine and very fine that should be a whole grade back?
Again,
good comment?
As you know - I've been saying for a long time now that reform needs to take place in the grading industry. But I have to agree with you about the problem that would be created if they raised their standards. So leave the standards where they are now. Just quit changing them !!
All that is needed is consistency and the same set of standards - among ALL of the grading companies.
K S
We want the services to GRADE coins rather than PRICE them."
hear, hear.
By jove, I knew someone out there felt that way too!
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