An innovative solution to dealers leaving early
tradedollarnut
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An age old problem. Dealers leave on Saturday [hey, they got a life and have to list lots of newps and in many cases have been there over a week!] leaving the bourse floor empty on Sunday. The public stops coming and even more dealers leave early, resulting in a never ending cycle of decline.
How about an extra $50-100 charge on the table. If your table was attended with coins displayed on Sunday, your fee is only $50, otherwise it's $100.
The money goes into a pot and a drawing is held one hour before the close. The money is awarded to one lucky collector in the form of a gift certificate valid for one hour - he must spend the money on coins currently on display at the show.
How many extra collectors would attend for a shot at many thousands of dollars? How many extra dealers would stay that extra day to save $50 (not many, but some), to sell coins to those extra collectors (not many but some) and to be eligible to make a multithousand dollar sale to the lucky winner? There would undoubtably be some publicity associated with the drawing and coins selected.
The bottom line is that it would break the cycle of decline and start a cycle of build up toward a successful Sunday attendance!
How about an extra $50-100 charge on the table. If your table was attended with coins displayed on Sunday, your fee is only $50, otherwise it's $100.
The money goes into a pot and a drawing is held one hour before the close. The money is awarded to one lucky collector in the form of a gift certificate valid for one hour - he must spend the money on coins currently on display at the show.
How many extra collectors would attend for a shot at many thousands of dollars? How many extra dealers would stay that extra day to save $50 (not many, but some), to sell coins to those extra collectors (not many but some) and to be eligible to make a multithousand dollar sale to the lucky winner? There would undoubtably be some publicity associated with the drawing and coins selected.
The bottom line is that it would break the cycle of decline and start a cycle of build up toward a successful Sunday attendance!
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Comments
<< <i>TDN, your suggestion makes way too much sense. Therefore, it probably won't happen
So logical... whoa!
i have no idea what a table would cost but if the show cost for a table is $500, then:
make saturday $400 and sunday $100, if that's not enough then make saturday $450 and sunday $50. eventually the price will find a nice equilibrium and everyone will be happy.
the beauty of economics.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
How about charging $1000 for a table for Thu-Sun; $1500 for Thu-Sat; $2500 for Thu-Fri.
I went to the previous Long Beach show on Sunday and it was beyond dead. Even Saturday was pretty bad. I guess I'm lucky since I can get out of work and go to the show on Thu & Fri. If I was the average collector that had to go on the weekend, I'd be rather disappointed in the lack of dealers on Sat & Sun.
Have dealers let the bourse chairman know when they are leaving and have collectors and other dealers who may not want to pay for a
table, waiting in the wings to take over the abandoned tables.....for free.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
It will never ever work.....makes too much sense!
Here's another idea: strippers performing on the last day!
Wimmin!
We'd also need a crash cart [ with defibralator] just in case things got outta hand so to speak!
Clear!!!
But why not start the show on the previous Sunday????
Require a $75 deposit, refundable at the end of the show.
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Some collectors, due to their work schedules, are not able to attend shows on weekdays, when more dealers are likely to be present. I can certainly understand how it can be disappointing (or worse) for a collector to drive to a show on a weekend, only to arrive to a half empty bourse floor.
For purposes of this post, at least, I will present a dealer's point of view on this topic.
If a given show begins on a Thursday, many dealers arrive Wednesday (or even earlier) to do business before the show, or, at the very least, to be there for the beginning of the show. A number of these dealers are real people, with real families, just like the collectors. If they leave a show on a Friday or a Saturday, it means they have probably been on the road and away from their families for between 3 and 5 days. It also means they have paid the fee for the bourse table and for a number of nights at a hotel.
Is it fair to require them to stay at a show longer? Shouldn't it be their right to leave when they choose, without penalty? Aren't they entitled to go home when they wish, to do more productive work, spend time at home with a family, or do whatever they want? Please try to put yourselves in their position.
For those who are upset about going to a show to see a particular dealer and learning that he has already left, there is a pretty easy solution - call the dealer ahead of time, to see how long he plans to be at the show.
For those who don't know how empty the show might be if they go on a Saturday or Sunday - call the show promoter and ask. It is easy enough to avoid being disappointed, with a bit of planning. And, these days, with all of the negative publicity dealers have received for leaving shows early, it should hardly be a surprise anymore if someone goes to a show on a Saturday or Sunday and half of the dealers are gone.
Please don't get me wrong - I see the collector's side of this too. But there are two sides and it seems that many don't consider both of them.
If it isn't really a 4 day show then quit advertising it as such. Why should I have to call every dealer on the list to see if they plan on selling me a coin on Saturday or Sunday. Anyway I learned my lesson I was on a plane Saturday morning at FUN. If you want to discourage new collectors I can't think of a better way then to leave a show on Saturday. I would think that Saturdays and Sundays would be a good day for dealers to meet with potential customers, spend time etc and building relationships. Most of the dealers at Central States didn't want to bother asking questions about their coins. I was about to pop for 4 grand for an Indian Head Cent till the dealer made the comment to me, and I quote: If you are really interested in one of my coins please make an offer as I need to start packing up. I smiled and politely said, I was going to offer on the 1866 but just give me one of your business cards as I am too busy right now to decide, I will call you.
#1) Dealers get a discount if they stay until Sunday.
#2) Vest pocket dealers and collectors get to set up on empty tables Sunday (maybe with dealers who stay until Sunday first getting a choice to switch tables).
I understand people needing to get home. Why not just close the store on Monday? Stay until Sunday afternoon, go home Sunday evening then take a day or two off.
Your point is valid and I think most of us can see the dealers point of view. However, it still doesn't make it less painful for the collector who can't get to a show during the workweek, which is why I think we need innovative thinking to resolve the problem with solutions such as put forth by TDN and Anaconda. It would be nice if someone with the required clout (i.e. Pinnacle, Legend, etc.) could forward some suggestions to the appropriate bourse chairmen.
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<< <i>
Is it fair to require them to stay at a show longer? Shouldn't it be their right to leave when they choose, without penalty? Aren't they entitled to go home when they wish, to do more productive work, spend time at home with a family, or do whatever they want? Please try to put yourselves in their position.
>>
Be careful now.....you're almost starting to make it sound like every other sales job in the world.
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EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
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On one hand, you have the right to do what you want to do. On the other hand, the show sponsor wants his show to be a success, too. Is a show a success just based on dealer to dealer transactions, or are retail sales important also? Would you be successful if no new collectors come into the hobby, and the number of collectors just keeps dropping? You should have an interest in increasing demand for coins, i.e., stimulating interest in the hobby. This includes being available for the public, meaning weekend shows.
Are the dealers placing too much emphasis on wholesale trading? If so, maybe "dealer day," before the show, should be eliminated.
<< <i>Please try to put yourselves in their position. >>
Mark...this is why I will never work in retail......
A dealer...by buying a table space...makes a commitment to stay for the whole show in my mind. A poor dealer who's been away from the wife and kiddies for 3-5 days and wants to go home....well no sympathy from a Navy guy who's deployed and gone to sea too many times to count...it's the profession we've chosen.
The customer is always right...even when he isn't.
What is it with Sunday? Why are you guys so concerned about a day when most of you don’t even bother to go to the show? I’ve been going to coin shows for 30 years, and Sunday has always been a quiet day. It’s always been a day when many dealers have left. It’s nothing new.
I regularly take a table at the Bay State Show in Boston. Usually Sunday backs up against the Nashua, NH show. I could stay set up in Boston at no addition charge or drive to Nashua and pay for a table there. I ALWAYS opt to go to Nashua. Why? Because I have sat at the Boston show on Sunday and done very little or NO BUSINESS. I have sat for several hours on Sundays and NOT sold one penny’s worth of merchandise. Why should I be required to waste my time and money for that?
If Sunday is so important, then come out and spend some money on that day. If you are not willing to support the show on Sunday, then quit carping about it.
TRUTH
Dave
BTW Nashua does not back up to this week’s Bay State Coin Show, so I will be at my table on Sunday.
Profits may be greater through sales to other than those on the bourse floor, so by late Fri./early Sat., some/most dealears, and a lot of collectors, are done. Therefore, weekend sales are becoming unnecessary, and now, avoided.
Cutting the (extra) "dealer-only" days, may be the answer.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
sounds like a good way to tell the collecting public that the merchandise remaining after "Dealer Day" is leftover overpriced junk.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
If a given show begins on a Thursday, many dealers arrive Wednesday (or even earlier) to do business before the show, or, at the very least, to be there for the beginning of the show. A number of these dealers are real people, with real families, just like the collectors. If they leave a show on a Friday or a Saturday, it means they have probably been on the road and away from their families for between 3 and 5 days. It also means they have paid the fee for the bourse table and for a number of nights at a hotel.
I certainly don't want to keep a dealer away from his family. The easy answer to this problem is for the dealer to not attend the show. As a caring customer, I think I will refuse to buy from any dealer that attends the show on Saturday or Sunday and has a family.
I'm sorry, but I don't care if you're away from your family for a few days. You picked the job. You picked the show. You agreed to the terms. Stick to them or don't go to the show. If you want to spend more time with the family, then don't go to the show at all. Or is this a "having your cake and eating it too" type of situation?
Is it fair to require them to stay at a show longer? Shouldn't it be their right to leave when they choose, without penalty? Aren't they entitled to go home when they wish, to do more productive work, spend time at home with a family, or do whatever they want? Please try to put yourselves in their position.
Their right? You make it sound like we are putting a gun to their heads. They signed up for the show knowing it ran 4 days. If they didn't want to commit to this, then they didn't have to sign up. If you choose not to be there for the run of the show (your choice), then don't sign up for the show to being with.
For those who are upset about going to a show to see a particular dealer and learning that he has already left, there is a pretty easy solution - call the dealer ahead of time, to see how long he plans to be at the show.
Even easier solution. Make a note of that dealer and next show tell him that you refuse to do business with him because he leaves early. If enough people did this, then maybe more dealers would stay.
For those who don't know how empty the show might be if they go on a Saturday or Sunday - call the show promoter and ask. It is easy enough to avoid being disappointed, with a bit of planning. And, these days, with all of the negative publicity dealers have received for leaving shows early, it should hardly be a surprise anymore if someone goes to a show on a Saturday or Sunday and half of the dealers are gone.
Better yet, call the promoter and tell them how pissed you are that all the dealers are leaving a day and a half early and that you won't be back again.
Please don't get me wrong - I see the collector's side of this too. But there are two sides and it seems that many don't consider both of them.
I see the dealers side, but it's a little hard to have sympathy for them when they knew the terms of the job and then start whining about those terms.
This Long Beach could have been a two day show. Given the number of dealers gone on Saturday afternoon, I would guess that Sunday the place was deserted.
By the time Saturday and Sunday roll around, the majority of dealers and collectors are gone or wishing they were gone.
Why not have a two day show on Saturday and Sunday or Friday and Saturday?
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
You said (and others have voiced similar sentiments) "I'm sorry, but I don't care if you're away from your family for a few days. You picked the job. You picked the show. You agreed to the terms. Stick to them or don't go to the show. If you want to spend more time with the family, then don't go to the show at all. Or is this a "having your cake and eating it too" type of situation?"
Many of these shows don't include "terms" requiring the dealers to stay for a certain length of time. I'm not advocating that dealers break the terms of contracts that include mandatory attendance through a certain day/time. I'm merely saying that a dealer should be free to leave when he/she chooses, when there are no "terms' in the contract. Likewise, collectors are free to boycott those dealers if they so choose.
PS - it was still good to meet you at the show.
1) let's not forget that dealers attend many, many shows throughout the year. What is one afternoon to a show attendee might be 40 to them.
2) the airlines have made many, many cutbacks in flights. Where in the past it used to be a simple matter to choose a convenient flight allowing the dealer to stay thru closing time, now they may have no choice but to leave early. Having to spend two hours at the airport because of security issues also forces them to leave even earlier. 45 minute cab ride to LAX because of traffic? Even earlier.
3) an extra day is $300-400 in extra expenses. If the dealer doesn't consistently make double that in profits, they will leave early.
4) Sunday is often a day for worship and family. Does signing up to be a coin dealer mean giving up one's faith? Further, many customers are in church and not at the show. Low attendance means losses means leaving early - see number 3 above.
I have worked at a lot of Trade Shows over the years. About 50% require the company to stay through the final exhibiting hours or there are repurcussions. Some don't let you exhibit the following year. Another one is you move to the back of the list in getting booth space next year. You are then stuck in some out of the way corner with 25% of the traffic at the front. When these rules are in place, 99%+ of exhibitors stay until the end.
Hey, I didn't like working Thurs - Sunday at 3:00pm either, but as was stated many times above, it's the job.
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
One alternative, if you have a business partner, is to have one person attend the first half and the other attend the second half.
NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Type collector since 1981
Current focus 1855 date type set
Most of the dealers who leave large shows early are national dealers. They attend 30+ shows a year, many of the major shows are two weeks because of the pre shows and auction schedules. They work 12+ hour days during the show and get to go back and list their purchases and do their accounting and maybe see their young children/spouse. Their job doesn't end when they leave the show - it's just starting.
Don't like dealers leaving early? Deal with your feelings.... it's not going to stop unless there is some very large financial incentive for them to stay. Requiring them to stay on Sunday is not the answer - even the ANA figured that one out!
I like TDN's original thought, sounds like some nice incentive. I'd have to say I'm with the dealers on this though. They pay for the table, they can work whatever hours they like. It's thier business, if they make bad decisions they will have to live with them. I find it hard to believe that some of you would stop doing business with a dealer just because he left a show on Sunday or late Saturday. Working retail sucks, it really does. 33% of all customers suck a$$, to put it bluntly. 10% you would invite over for supper later. The rest are tolerable, sometimes just barely.
There might be a reason I don't work retail anymore, but I just can't put my finger on it.
If you KNOW the dealers cut out on Sunday, don't depend on anyone else to fix the problem for you, go early when most all the dealers are there. Problem solved.
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If the promoters of the show don't care enough to make certain requirements of the dealers, then sure the dealers have the right to leave. If enough do leave, then the customers will follow. At some point many customers will figure that if they can't get two days of the show (Sat & Sun) then they might as well not go at all. Then we'll see dealers packing up early on Friday since Saturday no one comes. A giant vicious cycle.
Again, I really want to point out that what I found really disturbing was that dealers were packing up two hours into the Saturday show. That's five and a half hours before the show ended on that day.
I saw one dealer packing up half way thru Saturday. Did he do this because he didn't want the additional expense of the hotel or his flight was booked at a certain time? I doubt it since he lives a few minutes from the show. Maybe next time I am in his shop I will ask him about this.
I see no reason why the show promoter can't institute a rule requiring every dealer to remain at his table until the end of the show on Saturday. No packing up until the show officially ends.
I can understand that Sundays aren't a good day for many people, but that doesn't mean you should be racing out the door on Saturday.
i think those small "one day" shows on sunday cater to the normal collector who has to work during the week. i don't think the large shows are concerned with those who actually have to work for a living.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
However, I did do some business with forum member Strat and a few others.
I've worn both shoes (collector and dealer), both sides have merit to their arguements, both sides are right, and both sides are wrong.
GSAGUY
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