[Pole question] Is pretty color worth multiples of greysheet ?
barberlover
Posts: 2,228 ✭✭
There is know right answer to this question, beauty is always in the eye of the beholder so this is seeking your opionions only.
For me, i have always felt pretty original color is worth an extra amount if the coin was graded properly technically [seperate from the color] and also has full original luster showing thru the toning, but not multiples of grey sheet price levels.
I don't want this opionion to be taken the wrong way, it is my opionion and nothing more. Here's a good example of what i mean. I paid 1150 dollars for an 1899 barber quarter in p.c.g.s. 65 thru a long beach auction last year, absolutley beautiful burn't orange toning on the obverse with copper and some grey on the reverse and full luster showing thru the toning, I think i paid a couple hundred to much but for that "look" i really couldn't let it go, but in todays color crazed market i wouldn't have a chance at this coin because if bid is around 800 it might bring 2 or even 3 thousand and at that level i would pass even though i do think original is worth more its not worth bidding a common date morgan worth 75 bucks up to 4 or 500 or a common date frankie up to 1000 because of color. Again this is just my opionion and am interested in hearing your take on this.
For me, i have always felt pretty original color is worth an extra amount if the coin was graded properly technically [seperate from the color] and also has full original luster showing thru the toning, but not multiples of grey sheet price levels.
I don't want this opionion to be taken the wrong way, it is my opionion and nothing more. Here's a good example of what i mean. I paid 1150 dollars for an 1899 barber quarter in p.c.g.s. 65 thru a long beach auction last year, absolutley beautiful burn't orange toning on the obverse with copper and some grey on the reverse and full luster showing thru the toning, I think i paid a couple hundred to much but for that "look" i really couldn't let it go, but in todays color crazed market i wouldn't have a chance at this coin because if bid is around 800 it might bring 2 or even 3 thousand and at that level i would pass even though i do think original is worth more its not worth bidding a common date morgan worth 75 bucks up to 4 or 500 or a common date frankie up to 1000 because of color. Again this is just my opionion and am interested in hearing your take on this.
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Comments
Brian.
I think the problem comes in when there is a perceived possibility that a grading service will "add a point for eye appeal," creating the possibility of an upgrade, thus, giving some validity to the "multiple(s)".
Of course I’d keep in mind that if I try to sell the coin some day, I might or might not find a buyer with the same appreciation for the coin’s appearance.
Dan
mcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu">dmcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu
are priced beyond the realm of reason. In many cases, coins of equal grade and color
may be purchased cheaper from dealers who specialize in such toned coinage. Another consideration
is the rarity of such toned coinage for a particular series. As an example, Kennedy Half Dollars
are rare with the bright translucent colors that you would see on a Morgan Dollar. Coins such as the
Superior Auction Toned Antietam Commem which went for a stunning 9500 plus 15% fee, may well
be unique for that particular bright and startling range of colors. I chased that coin up to 5000 dollars
which was well above the 1500 dollar estimate but failed. Desire, deep pockets and pride of ownership,
oftentimes overule economic considerations for resale in the frenzy of competative bidding. In a
number of cases, coins auctioned for excessive amounts of money are resold within a year for
a number of reasons at prices that may be 50% of their peak price. In other circumstances, prices that
may have seemed excessive, turns out to have been bargains. To some degree, pricing of toned
coins is tied to the emotional whims of the collecting public as well as cyclic waves of collector
interest and demand. It is my opinion , if you tie extremely high grade with magnificent color,
then you should pay what your pocket can tolerate. You may have to hold on to such a coin for a
number of years, to catch the next upward cycle of high prices , to get out at breakeven or a profit.
Beauty is sometimes a subjective passion not subject to the normal economic realities of the
coin market place.
Camelot
"Of course I’d keep in mind that if I try to sell the coin some day, I might or might not find a buyer with the same appreciation for the coin’s appearance."
Dan, That last part of your statement speaks volumes about what i'm trying to get at with this pole. Beauty, in art or paintings is truely in the eye of the beholder but the value of your coin is determined at 2 points in time point A. is when you buy the coin and point B. is when you sell the coin [if you do] Veiwing coins as art is fine as long as people get into higher prices with there eyes WIDE OPEN!!! Exellent point Dan. Thank you, barberlover
I usually buy these toned coins from someone I know and trust, and when they tell me they will make a strong buy back offer if I sell I believe them. Not because I'm naive, but because I've kept them to their word before.
I just bought a Gsa CC toned Morgan from Gsaguy. It wasn't cheap but was unusual for the toning it has and the higher grade. He loves the coin enough that he gave me a lifetime 100% buyback offer. I didn't ask for this offer, nor did I expect such a buyback offer.
Point is, when it's time to sell going to the right person is the major factor.
I think we have very similar tastes in coins and in prefering original color. If you ever come to Minneapolis i would love to show you my collection if my current situation doesnt force me to sell. Les
Will I pay those prices? No, because I think that market is driven by a fad. Yes, I think that coins with really great eye appeal are worth more, sometimes as much as 50% or even 75% more, but multiples of “bid” if the “bid” price is correct are not something that we will see in the long run for many of the coins that are bringing these prices today.
And that statement goes a thousand fold for artificially toned coins that have somehow slipped though the web. One problem with AT coins is that they are sometimes not stable. Today’s AT “stunner” could be tomorrow’s “god awful ugly” coin.
The grade of a coin is meant to establish it's condition and the price of a coin is a reflection of the condition since people are willing to pay more for a nicer specimen.
But a colorful MS62 is worth more than a dull MS62 even though it's in the same technical condition. So should sell for a multiple of the dull MS62. The question is what that multiplier should be, and that can only be decided by the buyer who wants it and the seller who doesn't.
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<< <i>Colorful coins are worth multiples now, but will they be ten years from now? >>
40 years ago I was taught that tarnished coins weren't worth much
Anybody remember paying $150.00 for a common "Brown Ike". Try getting $30.00 for it today. Now multiply that relatively small lesson by hundreds.
My broker used to call me about dot com stocks. "what does this company do?, is the product proprietary? do they have superstar management?'
The answer - "it doesn't matter - buying frenzy if sending these stocks to Pluto".
Of course, if you don't have enough thrust to get to Pluto you crash harmlessly back to earth, which may happen to "Monster Toned" coins.
Neil
the luster and detroyed it. Toninghas the range of bright colors gold, reds, Apple green, orange, light
lavender and even purple. Under such toning should be a deep luster that clearly shines up thru the
toned areas. The coin has what we call a bright lively look, instead of the dull, dark and lifeless look
of a dead husk of a coin. Toning is as different from tarnish as the dirt under ones fingernails is from
soil. Dirt is is lifeless while the soil is alive, it has the look and smell of life about it and is considered
an actual living entity.
Camelot
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WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
Colored coins are the rage in cycles, but top quality coins will always find a firm market. Now, if
one can buy nicely toned coins in high grade at some reasonable price , there is nothing wrong or
economically unsound about that either.
Camelot
<< <i>Toning is as different from tarnish as the dirt under ones fingernails is from soil. >>
Ladies and gentlemen, my nominee for poet laureate of the United States, our very own Bear, who produces high grade silk purses from decaying sows' ears!
Camelot
Yes, it's always nice to not lose money when one decides to sell, but owning the piece for me is sometimes more important. I do it for the enjoyment not investment. I feel too many folks get wrapped up in the investment part and worry about how cheap they can get something. This sometimes ends up with a collection that will indeed bring bluesheet (or less) prices when time to sell.
I look at it this way.... I go buy a new couch for my house, how much am I going to get for it if I sell it? Am I only going to lose maybe 20-30%? or am I going to be lucky if someone will haul it off. At least with coins, you usually can get a decent buyback price.
And again, if you know the right people to sell to you will do fine. And if it's the right seller they will also let you trade up a coin (for full value) that you bought from them to buy another coin from them.
As far as people jumping in to this market with their eyes closed and not doing their homework.... SHAME ON THEM.
Now for a kind of switch. Take some seated material (any denomination) I have seen alot of toned ones and washed out looking specimens. To me, anice white,full luster (not washed out) should carry a premium over a toned one. In my Very Limited experience the toned ones seem to be easier to find. Therefore white would be a condition rarity.
To those that think paying way more than sheet prices for toned material is crazy, and you love it because you think the blast white, dipped out, or NCS material you are getting cheap is a better deal, you might be in for an even bigger surprise when you go to sell your "Deals."
I know many dealers that you won't have to worry about them low balling you when you sell.... They won't even make an offer on it because they don't even want it.
And please don't feel I'm knocking these kind of coins, but there is a flip side to it all. Yeah, you can sell them on Ebay, but what if Ebay isn't around then.
Save your hard earned money for Morgans that are truly rare... look for the 1896-o, 1900-o and 1902-o micro o VAMS in AU or higher. Even a fairly nice 1901 shifted eagle in AU 50 can be purchased for significanly less than what some of these common date Morgans are selling for. There are others I should mention, but I think the point has been made... BTW, good luck in your search
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
If the coin is bought because someone really likes the coin, then throw out the sheet... a coin is what someone is willing to pay, and if they want to pay a large sum for what they like, then why not?
Jeremy
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
There is a coin in the Redbook that lists at $5.25 in proof 65. I had one in PCGS Proof 69DCAM, which actually is what many if not most of
them are accorded when sent in. A white coin in 69DCAM is probably worth $25 or less. I'm not sure. I paid $1,800 to a dealer for this
coin and sold it to a dealer for a profit. It had what most would call rather attractive toning.
The kinds of coins i really like don't come to me for greysheet bid, typically.
Why collect average coins? Treat yourself to the best. The best costs more. Boring average coins are a waste of money.
Figuring out what Monsters are worth....therein lies the challenge.
The biggest challenge, though, is finding them.
adrian
Just try and find another.
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