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Question on the ethics of cracking out

dweeberlorddweeberlord Posts: 47
in U.S. Coin Forum
I was reading the thread on the largest increase from a crack-out. I have a question: Do you feel it is ethical to crack out a coin you feel is undergraded and simply call it what you think it is? This assumes you are being honest with yourself and also have the expertise to grade this coin. This also assumes you would sell the coin either sight-seen or with a return policy. I ask because I like the high profit of getting an upgrade but hate dealing with the politics, cost, and wait of the grading companies.

Comments

  • paigowjohnnypaigowjohnny Posts: 4,257 ✭
    Why not....remeber the grading services are all just OPINIONS as well.
  • CAlcazarCAlcazar Posts: 18
    Certainly,

    Since in your scenerio you would be simply passing your own personal judgement on what you think the coin would grade at based on your personal experience. I think that as long as you provide a suitable picture where the buyer could take your opinion at face value and not simply rely on your opinion there is nothing wrong with giving a coin whatever grade you wish.

    A smart buyer will draw there own conclusions either way based on a good photo and bid according to their own ideas about the grade.
    << There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. >>


    - Mary Wilson Little



    << To understand what you're saying would imply I give a damn >>

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  • DHeathDHeath Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
    Nothing wrong with it, but you would do well to see what a PCGS MS64 is worth when compared to a Dweeberlord MS65.image

    Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
    and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is definitely ethical to crack out a coin and sell it at its true grade. The trouble is a lot of Classic coins in slabs would sell at a LOWER grade in that case.

    Come on guys! The graders at the services are not gods and they are far from perfect. I can grade better than most of them, and they people know me at the shows will attest to that.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • BustmanBustman Posts: 1,911 ✭
    You are better off selling the coin as a "VERY high end 64, could upgrade to 65" coin rather than cracking it out and selling it raw. I'll take a high end graded coin over a raw one on ebay anyday.
  • coppercoinscoppercoins Posts: 6,084 ✭✭✭
    Then there are others of us who look at the coin itself and don't pay attention to the grade on the slab. If the coin is worth the money it's a done deal regardless of what the plastic says - but I've had a really hard time finding any plastic that is priced for the coin - they're priced for the plastic.

    Strong case in point is the box full of slabbed "MS66" cents I went through....only a small fraction were actually MS66, and none of them were worth the money even at a discount.
    C. D. Daughtrey, NLG
    The Lincoln cent store:
    http://www.lincolncent.com

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    http://www.cdaughtrey.com
    USAF veteran, 1986-1996 :: support our troops - the American way.
    image
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    It is not unethical, however, since I got a couple of over graded raw coins on eBay, I simply will not waste my time bidding on BU, Gem BU, Unc, etc... Most raw coins are overgraded, and you can not see hairlines in the photos, or the photos are taken at angles to highlight the best attributes of the coins. I personally would rather pay more for an MS64 PCGS graded coin, than an "In my opinion" this is a MS65 or better. Many of those MS 65 or better are AU coins.

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Just because a grading company says one thing does not mean it's wrote in stone. But you had better grade it correctly if you do it yourself. If you are an ANA member you have to extend your return policy to 30 days if the buyer wants to get it graded and if it doesn't grade out at your assigned grade I'm sure you will catch some flack about selling "overgraded coins."
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,304 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You are better off selling the coin as a "VERY high end 64, could upgrade to 65" coin rather than cracking it out and selling it raw. I'll take a high end graded coin over a raw one on ebay anyday.

    From a marketing prospective, I agree completely.

    Then there are others of us who look at the coin itself and don't pay attention to the grade on the slab. If the coin is worth the money it's a done deal regardless of what the plastic says - but I've had a really hard time finding any plastic that is priced for the coin - they're priced for the plastic.

    Sometimes when some of my customers call me up about a coin, we can describe the coin to in the finest detail and yet can't recall the slab brand or the grade on the slab. Slabs to me are mostly marketing tools and assurances that the coin is genuine.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Bill,

    Yes these are marketing tools. However, at least you get a guarantee on the grade with PCGS, so there is at least a way to recoup on an overgrade.

    You should by the coin and not the holder. But I am more willing to accept consensous grading than the grade by "so-and-so" on a raw coin that I purchase sight unseen. It is a totally different thing if I can see the coin first hand. In this case, it would not matter if it was raw. I gladly buy raw coins all the time at shows or from dealers. Again, it is the sight unseen stuff that I trust the holder more than someone's opinion.

    I may miss on wonderful coins on eBay, but I just won't buy raw unc coins. I was stung twice--no more.

    Tony

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think it depends on the circumstances. If you buy an MS 62 that you purchase because you believe it is a 63, crack it out and resubmit the coin in the same condition in which it was purchased to TPG Company X and they grade it a 63, I don't think there is an ethical issue. Basically you have used your knowledge and skill and made a decision that worked.

    Now, lets change the facts... you buy a slabbed AU50 1895-O Morgan... a really nice original and decide to crack it out, enhance it by dipping and then resubmit it and it comes back AU 55 and then you flip it for a quick $300 profit. I have major problems with that.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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