ACG files complaint against ANA governor; hearing to be at Charlotte ANA show March 20th
kranky
Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
Barry Stuppler posted the following on RCC. Perhaps some of you can lend him a hand.
Accugrade (ACG) has taken offense to a client email, which was
forwarded to them by my client, communicating my opinion of
the accuracy of their grading. ACG has filed a formal complaint
against me with the ANA, stating that I have violated ANA’s
Member Code of Ethics. ACG states in the complaint that I
did not “refrain from making unjustified and/or false statements
or misrepresentations.”
Diane Hager of ACG has been granted a hearing at the
upcoming ANA National Money Show in Charlotte, NC.
This hearing will be open to the public. Mrs. Hager seeks my
expulsion/resignation as an ANA Governor. The hearing is
scheduled for 4:00 pm Thursday March 20th, 2003, at
the ANA Board room in the Charlotte Convention Center,
501 S. College Street, Charlotte, NC. It will be an open
hearing with the ANA Board of Governors listening to
witnesses and reviewing evidence presented by each side.
I can use your help. Please send me any firsthand information
regarding your experiences with ACG’s grading accuracy,
polices, procedures, or any notable communications with ACG
or its principals. If you would like to be witness at the hearing
or provide a notarized statement please contact me ASAP as I
must prepare a witness and document list immediately. If you
have comments about the upcoming ACG/Stuppler ANA hearing
at the Charlotte ANA and wish to post them on RCC, please feel
free to do so. For obvious reasons I will not reply to any email
on rcc, just to emails or calls directly to me.
Thank you,
Barry Stuppler
barry@coinmag.com
Accugrade (ACG) has taken offense to a client email, which was
forwarded to them by my client, communicating my opinion of
the accuracy of their grading. ACG has filed a formal complaint
against me with the ANA, stating that I have violated ANA’s
Member Code of Ethics. ACG states in the complaint that I
did not “refrain from making unjustified and/or false statements
or misrepresentations.”
Diane Hager of ACG has been granted a hearing at the
upcoming ANA National Money Show in Charlotte, NC.
This hearing will be open to the public. Mrs. Hager seeks my
expulsion/resignation as an ANA Governor. The hearing is
scheduled for 4:00 pm Thursday March 20th, 2003, at
the ANA Board room in the Charlotte Convention Center,
501 S. College Street, Charlotte, NC. It will be an open
hearing with the ANA Board of Governors listening to
witnesses and reviewing evidence presented by each side.
I can use your help. Please send me any firsthand information
regarding your experiences with ACG’s grading accuracy,
polices, procedures, or any notable communications with ACG
or its principals. If you would like to be witness at the hearing
or provide a notarized statement please contact me ASAP as I
must prepare a witness and document list immediately. If you
have comments about the upcoming ACG/Stuppler ANA hearing
at the Charlotte ANA and wish to post them on RCC, please feel
free to do so. For obvious reasons I will not reply to any email
on rcc, just to emails or calls directly to me.
Thank you,
Barry Stuppler
barry@coinmag.com
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
0
Comments
Was it worth the $3000? I'm just curious.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
It's not the fact that the guy is an ANA governor. The same could happen to ANY member. The vast majority of dealers are members. It can't be good for the hobby if a new person asks about the relative merits of different slabbing outfits, and no ANA member can offer an opinion without risk of expulsion.
I think this hearing has the potential to be a major milestone regardless of the outcome. It could be very, very good or very, very bad.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
K S
the accuracy of their grading"
Interesting. If in fact all Mr. Stuppler did was communicate his opinion about the accuracy of ACG's opinion, that shouldn't be to much of a
problem for Mr. Stuppler in the eyes of the ANA.
If the ANA is a good and responsible organization, they not only should exonerate Mr. Stuppler (again, if all he did was communicate his
opinion about the accuracy of ACGs grading) but they should be organizing to help whoever it is that ACG has sued.
adrian
As a member of the board of governors, it's the responsibility of that person to guide the ANA in a way that best suits the ANA. If accepting a donation from a questionable entity isn't in the best intrests of the ANA, then vote against it. Otherwise, be prepared to accept what comes with the donation.
Cheers,
Bob
Hopefully that small of a gift won't influence them. My suspicions are that it will not.
Taking money from someone doesn't mean you approve of their activities, howeveer, if I were President of the ANA i would avoided the
potential appearance of impropriety (to at least some) by placing a full page disclaimer in the monthly ANA journal that states that while
the ANA is accepting a $3000 donation, it doesn't condone the activities of ACG.
adrian
Taking money from some does imply an approval or tolerance of their actions. Unless of course, you happen to be a lawyer.
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
Freedom of speech...Freedom of Opinion.
Now, if he was speaking as a representative of ANA instead of in his personal business as a dealer, all bets are off.
HA HA HA
When you play with a snake you get bit.
<< <i>The ANA accepted a gift of $3000?
Hopefully that small of a gift won't influence them. My suspicions are that it will not.
Taking money from someone doesn't mean you approve of their activities, howeveer, if I were President of the ANA i would avoided the
potential appearance of impropriety (to at least some) by placing a full page disclaimer in the monthly ANA journal that states that while
the ANA is accepting a $3000 donation, it doesn't condone the activities of ACG.
adrian >>
SNAKE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!
Kranky, as abe pointed out it will probably hinge on the capacity in which Mr. Stuppler expressed his opinion, that of just a collector or everyday Joe or that of THE ANA Pres.
On one hand, I feel sorry for Mr. Stuppler having to go through this. On the other hand, he is an ANA governor, and in some way has contributed to the ANA being a spineless organization, unwilling to protect and educate the uninformed collector/consumer from being taken by bottom-feeders.
Remember the photo opp with the 2 ANA executives wearing wigs to mock Diane Hagar? Could someone repost that image? The ANA did that as a way of subliminally saying "yeah ACG, we will take your money that comes from ill-gotten gains, but we are going to wear these wigs as a way of saying that we are not taking this seriously". Besides, who could take a $3000 donation seriously? I still can't believe that ACG went through the trouble of making a jumbo sized blow-up of the check. How embarrassing!!!!
With all of that said and done, I must add the following: I will only buy an ACG certified coin if I am depressed and I need a really good laugh. They always seem to cheer me up! I also like to read their ads in Coin World. The 5th grade level grammar and punctuation is always good for a laugh and subsequent uplifting of one's spirit. So are their claims: "not one MAJOR complaint in 20 years". Yeah, whatever Alan, have another hit on the old pipe, right after Marion Berry passes it to you.
My .02 -- an easy way to support Mr Stuppler's assertion would be for him to simply survey current and past ebay auctions of Accugrade slabbed coins. He could compare the Accugrade images to similar coins from other grading companies, also from ebay.
My point is this: much of the anti-ACG crusade comes from the images of their coins sold at ebay and at various internet coin sites. Even from those images, it is often easy to see how ACG has graded inaccurately. It should be easy to make a case from internet images alone.
And then the case is: Hey, look. I was right. I was so right that the flaws in ACGs grading are even visible with internet images!!
Plus, doing this allows Mr Stupper to point out that a lot of newcomers (to the hobby) are in danger of being cheated, because the newcomers might (unknowingly) rely on the internet image alone.
As an ANA member, I absolutely agree that one of our Governors has every right to comment critically on practices in the coin collecting industry. In fact, I would be more worried if a Governor knew of such and then suppressed such information. That would be a better cause for his/her resignation, I think.
This is a good battle. Worth the fight. Good luck, Mr Stuppler.
Maybe I haven't been on RCC as long as you think I have, or I just missed the posts to which you refer. I read the newsgroup sporadically and don't read everything.
All I can add is that if some of the ANA powers that be were more vocal and addressed the issue, perhaps Barry Stuppler wouldn't now be defending his ANA membership.
I do think it's great that you are providing your evidence, and I look forward to seeing what you have up your sleeve, when the time comes.
an abreviation for "rec.collecting.coins". It is a internet usenet group. Open to all.
Tom
<< <i>(sorry, folks, but what is 'RCC'?) >>
The Usenet newsgroup, rec.collecting.coins. It's been around since 1995 or so, and being unmoderated, sometimes gets off topic and a little "rougher" than here.
Have you ever bought an accugrade coin thinking it was ok, only to later have people in the know RIP it apart? Even if you can say no, there are probably 1,000 coins or more on ebay at any given time that should motivate us to welcome this opportunity to bash the crap out of Accucrap.
THE TRUTH IS A DEFENSE TO THEIR ACCUSATIONS. THEY WANT THE TRUTH. LET'S GIVE IT TO THEM!!!
Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.
- André Gide
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
being evidence in lawsuits filed by ACG. It's called "judicial notice." But i'll Fratt law expound on that.
A negative finding could also have a major chilling effect on what people say about ACG.
It could also energize ACG to go after people who criticize them in ways that are not wise. If their revenues are down and they can blame you, they might.
I remember not too long ago some one poo pooing my exhortation to be careful what you say or be prepared to spend thousands defending yourself.
Remember, all it takes is about 5 sheets of paper and $200 and you get to find out just how expensive hiring a lawyer can be.
adrian
Do you think i would even have a chance? (I do have a pretty good background in business and law.)
adrian
Borderline opinions and slander are two different things, right ANACONDA!!
NEVER LET HIPPO MOUTH OVERLOAD HUMMINGBIRD BUTT!!!
WORK HARDER!!!!
Millions on WELFARE depend on you!
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
Rock-on lava!!!!
<< <i>"SNAKE FOR PRESIDENT!!!!!!"
Do you think i would even have a chance? (I do have a pretty good background in business and law.)
adrian >>
I think that they (ANA) need some new blood in there that will take a stance on things and take some action and just plain make a difference. I don't think you'd be leary of exchanging verbal (or courtroom) barbs with anyone..
In my Yoda voice....."Lots of intestinal fortitude have you"
The outcome of this hearing will be interesting. I hope some members can attend and post something immediately afterwords!
<< <i>male camel toe >>
HOLY CR#P THAT IS FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's the one with the least amount of facial hair.
Dwood, thanks for helping me lose my breakfast.
I can't stand ACG, have owned and immediately sold one of their slabs, and never will own (or hold) another one. I think that's fairly common knowledge.
My comments weren't aimed at ACG. They don't merit much comment in my book.
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
call me stupid but all along I thought one of you did a couple of cut/paste jobs to it??
Sorry about that. I really should have given some warning
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
Anaconda, did you read my earlier post to this thread? I am glad to see that an accomplished lawyer with amazing coins is actually agreeing with me. I close my eyes and see several behind the scene meetings at the ANA HQ regarding the $3000 donation. Someone jumps up and says, "I've got it! Let's use part of their donation to buy wigs so that we can mock them". I bet that the ANA didn't dress up like Dwight Manely when he donated several MILLION dollars to the ANA. Again, the ANA had to accept the donation.
It would be poetic justice if the ANA uses ACG's money on all of the toilets in the new building. I would suggest that they even make brass plates that say "this crapper compliments of ACG". What do you guys think???
<< <i>Goose, seriously wigs were added to two of the people, I won't spoil the fun and will let you figure out which ones. This image was the handiwork of Phil DeMayo, a regular poster on RCC. >>
sigh...........you guys had me thinking that my thinking was all wrong.