Long live the coin dealers?

tradedollarnut · February 23, 2003 12:21AM

The king is dead - long live the king! Are coin dealers done for - is there any use for them anymore?

It used to be that the coin dealer served as a source for new coins and the place for you to sell your coins. He also served as a source of knowledge and perhaps even a friendly person to discuss coins with. It seems to me that all those functions have been surpassed by other means.

The most popular source for coins these days is auction. More and more collectors are buying direct from auction than ever before. More and more coins are being sold in auction than ever before. I compare the thickness of my auction catalogs from even 5 years ago to now and they've more than doubled in size. There are also more auction companies in business, in addition to ebay. Dealers are having to resort to a game of chicken with collectors on the outstanding coins - thus driving up prices in auction to beyond what is reasonable. How long will it last? Eventually, the collector will assert himself and truly cut out the dealer completely.

Dealers used to serve as a source of liquidity, but each of these auction companies is more than willing to give even the smallest collector an advance against their coins.

With the advent of these chatrooms, collectors now have an almost infinite source of knowledge at their fingertips. We can discuss a coin's attributes at length and have 100 opinions within a day, or we can commiserate in private in less than a minute with an expert half the world away.

So I have to ask - is the coin dealer dead? Long live the auction?

stujoe · February 23, 2003 12:30AM

I'd still take a good local dealer or show where I can see the coin in person over the unknown auction seller on Ebay. However, because of the internet and forums like this, collector to collector transactions are certainly on the rise. I see those as very benefitial to my buying.

ANACONDA · February 23, 2003 12:34AM

The dealer is indeed dead. The internet has allowed us to do away with him. Now us collectors can go to eBay and trade amongst ourselves
without the dealer.

Yeah!!!!

anaconda

LucyBop · February 23, 2003 12:36AM

<< <i>The king is dead >>

Elvis is not dead!!!! I have him in hiding!

dragon · February 23, 2003 12:38AM

TDN,

Did you by chance run this post by Laura for approval before you posted it??

ms71 · February 23, 2003 12:44AM

The personal-service dealer will never be gone. I just can't see the range of material he does, and a lot of collectors (most of us on relatively modest budgets) will very seldom get involved in the "big-name" auction game. Sure there'll be a lot of eBay activity, but there's no beating seeing a coin in person first and having a good knowledgeable dealer on the lookout for what you want to see.

coinguy1 · February 23, 2003 12:45AM

TDN,

For now, at least, I will keep silent on this subject, so that I am not accused of making self serving statements.

Hopefully, some of those who have dealt with the company I work for and/or other dealers, can provide their take on it.

However, due to your affiliation with Legend, I think you would be in an excellent position to give BOTH points of view on this subject.

originalisbest · February 23, 2003 12:47AM

I wouldn't think so TDN, at least not at my collecting level. I like nice coins alright, but the kind I'm able to typically buy ($500 or much less, $500 is a big chunk of change to me) aren't likely to be found plated in slick catalogs, alas.

IrishMike · February 23, 2003 12:48AM

Someone try to convince the collectors who show up once a month at our local show, who don't have, don't want and don't need internet access. I don't travel to many shows and dealing with reputable dealers who have screened coins for me has without a doubt been one of the hi-lites of this hobby to me.

MacCoin · February 23, 2003 12:51AM

a trip to the dealer is one of my favorite things I love to go to coin shows. but the real deal is I can buy on ebay anytime I want but it just ain't the same as haveing a coin in your hand and talking to a dealer you trust. to me the dealer is still the king. long live the dealers.

agfox · February 23, 2003 12:52AM

Dealers will never die. I've shot at adrian, like what, 10 times now. He just won't stay down..

I expect dealers to have the higher quality pieces available when possible, and advice I can use, and believe. I want a good dealer. Ebay is a fantastic place to play. I can pick up common dates a plenty, learn so much on AT, pick and choose who can edit a picture best. Oh wait a second. Maybe I do want to see that coin in hand first...

Dealers won't die, but the prices will go up.

Bear · February 23, 2003 1:00AM

I strongly disagree with the premise of this thread. The good dealers are a prime essential in building

top grade collections of rare coins. They do in fact have sources of supply, they do represent me

at auctions in bidding on my behalf on coins we both deem suitable for my collection. Also, dealers

which have earned my confidence are an invaluable source of information and advice on the direction

my collecting takes as well as discussing the merits of every coin I purchase, A good dealer will talk

you out of a purchase as many times as recommend one because they understand the quality and

characteristics of the coins you wish to collect. It is true, some may be most successful on eBay

bidding on pictures of coins, but when it comes to ultimate grade, expensive coins, many of us

prefere a second opinion by a trusted dealer. The key equation in a sound bussiness relationship,

is the knowledge that both parties over the long run will benefit equally from that relationship.

Neither will seek unfair advantage at the expense of the other and honesty, decency and openess

shall prevail on both parties end. I for one, even with 30 years experience in collecting, would feel

at a great loss indeed, without my 4-5 key dealers.One can only measure worth as viewed thru

our own eyes. Dealers serve a good and necessary function for all the average collectors who have

neither the time, resources or ability to perform the same role for themselves. eBay is a most valuable

tool , and I have indeed bought coins on web, but the really good stuff that will bulge your eyes

and drop your jaw in amazement , I have always obtained from a dealer. They will send coins

on approval, will work out payment plans and will actively seek coins that will appeal to your own

personal tastes. I say long live the dealers, they are here to stay.

As a matter of fact, my regular dealers are all regular contributers to the Forum and none of

them have ever let me down or delivered less then what they promised or what I expected. Bear

dwood · February 23, 2003 1:02AM

I'd give up my Rolex long before I'd ever give up my dealer.

No way. Dealers live on!

WACoinGuy · February 23, 2003 1:10AM

I agree the dealer still plays an important role. When I go to a dealer I trust, I'm typically assured that I'm getting a good quality coin. And being able to see that coin under magnification and under proper lighting is something you can't get on E-Bay. I'll spend $500 or more at a dealer without much thought, but get nervous if an E-Bay auction is heading above $100. Though the prices on E-Bay seem to be better, overall, I'm happier with the quality of coins I get from dealers.

ms71 · February 23, 2003 1:24AM

One note that might be made - you can find a dealer you can trust on the net, even on eBay (duvallgold comes to mind). Sure, most are "merchandisers", but there are some good guys out there who have gone online.
True, it's a lot slower & more laborious process weeding out the jerks online. At a show, you just pass on by the guy who looks like he's ready to tear off your head & crap down your windpipe, or the guy who spends most of the show with another dealer buddy at his table with coins spread out all over making deals and won't deign to glance at you or, horrors, show you a coin. Online it involves paying shipping, waiting, maybe waiting some more, receiving the coin only to be very disappointed, packing & a trip to the post office, paying shipping again, and waiting for the refund. Sorting out online dealers one at a time this way is no fun (and fairly expensive).
Long live the dealer with the knowledge & inclination to provide REAL personal service (so often you get one attribute but not the other). And DON'T gripe about having to pony up a reasonable amount for the service. It can add a great deal to your enjoyment of the hobby.

Edited for spelling.

ARCO · February 23, 2003 1:27AM

The dealers in my area get people who come in for appraisals nearly once a day. They have estates contact them, and people unfamiliar with coins to the degree of posters on this board, who drop in because the dealers have a physical presence that has been there for 30 years.

Who out there knows that you or I could sell those person's coins for more profit. How could they find us in a geographical area with millions of other people, when we don't advertise and put out a welcome mat like a dealer?

The sophisticated, advanced collector now has other avenues to buy and sell coins. The general populace still utilizes dealers. I must admit that the vast majority of better coins are in the hands of advanced collectors, and the dealers must sift through a lot of junk to find some good deals.

I went in on Thursday and bought $650.00 worth of coins from a local dealer because they have thousands of coins to choose from, and because when they have an original piece I am not fighting with 100 other EBAY snipers to buy it at double retail. While I was there I spoke at length with the senior grader for about an hour and learned many aspects of the inner workings of the slabbing game, grading, pricing, etc that dealers have mastered.

Perhaps with time, as the old time collections are sold off, the local dealer will have a harder time of it. Then again, I look at dealers who have adapted like David Lawrence rare coins and wonder if the internet hasn't opened up the whole of the world to them.

Tyler

Gilbert · February 23, 2003 1:29AM

This satement

More and more collectors are buying direct from auction than ever before. More and more coins are being sold in auction than ever before. I compare the thickness of my auction catalogs from even 5 years ago to now and they've more than doubled in size. There are also more auction companies in business, in addition to ebay.

does not automatically translate to

The most popular source for coins these days is auction.

TDN, please, please do not take this statement personally, but just about every time I get past your "checkbook," you remind that I will never get past that "fat green line." If that was to obscure, the vast majority of collectors are "everyday joes" who rely on "everyday joes." One more time, You have too much money and SEEM to be unable or unwilling to envision, or recall (if ever) how the average collector collects.

Hey, if I'm way off base, then I apologize for probably expecting too much from my fellow man.

tradedollarnut · February 23, 2003 1:37AM

Gilbert: have you never heard of putting forth a concept 100% opposite to what you believe in order to start a discussion about the attributes? I own a minority share in Legend - do you really believe that I think the day of the dealer is done? No, I don't. But it's obvious that many on this forum do and they go out of their way to say so every day.

It's too bad you can't get past my collecting budget... occasionally I have good advice and experience to relate.

Bear · February 23, 2003 1:43AM

TDN, I suspected that your motive was opposite of your origonal premise, but in case

I was wrong, I thought it best to stay silent and let the thread run its normal course.

MacCoin · February 23, 2003 1:44AM

<< <i>One note that might be made - you can find a dealer you can trust on the net, even on eBay (duvallgold comes to mind). Sure, most are "merchandisers", but there are some good guys out there who have gone online. >>

it just ain't the same as looking into a persons eyes and hearing them speak

gsaguy · February 23, 2003 1:56AM

I said for years that I thought the internet would dramatically alter the coin business. Of course, it obviously doesn't take a rocket science to figure that out (since I'm a case in point).

Having said that, I believe that those who can see the future, who are not afraid of change but are challenged by it, will not only survive but prosper.

GSAGUY

EVillageProwler · February 23, 2003 1:56AM

The good dealers are invaluable; the bad ones can go away. Look at some recent examples of large collections with marginal material: Michael Hering (and his ED's), Morris Silverman (and his dollars), Ashland City (and his type material). (This is not meant as a slap against Heritage; there are several others whose names I currently forget not auctioned off by Heritage that also are uneventful when viewed in person!)

A successful collector needs to have good dealers who are willing to build a collection worthy of praise!

EVP

DesertLizard · February 23, 2003 1:57AM

The coin dealer as the crotchy shifty man with a small shop in a B class location is almost gone. Look at how many coin shops exist today vs. just 5 yrs. ago. High rents, slabbing and online auctions have done him in.

Ebay is changing the face of collecting. How many dealers who do well do you know who do not have an online presence? Buying or Selling.

Forget my opinion, Steve Ivy said at the Santa Clara show he expects 75% of sales will occur online by 2008. Notice how even the auction rooms are emptier? Not fewer bidders but many bid online now. Where is the dealer in this equation?

OK, the death of the dealer is not totally there and probably won't be for certain coins, like those going $50k+. Who wants to buy high end pieces without the input of a pro? But how many dealers can survive selling to that market? And when that market shrinks during a downturn do you want to be caught with that inventory?

If anything, collectors are benefiting from slabbing, online auctions and the death of the "old time" dealer.

Gilbert · February 23, 2003 1:58AM

Gilbert: have you never heard of putting forth a concept 100% opposite to what you believe in order to start a discussion about the attributes?

Yes. I just would have posed a question rather than assertions. (Of course, I had to rely on grammatical presentation to conclude they were assertions.)

I own a minority share in Legend - do you really believe that I think the day of the dealer is done? I really can't say. I assume you probably do most of your business at auctions, but apparently, I misconstrued that too.

It's too bad you can't get past my collecting budget... occasionally I have good advice and experience to relate.
I don't intend to NOT evaluate any advice you offer because of how it may be presented, based on your apparent experience.

I was merely trying to point out how I perceived SOME of your posts.

I also acknowledge that you didn't outright "body slam" me for expressing it either. Thanks.

EVillageProwler · February 23, 2003 2:03AM

I also acknowledge that you didn't outright "body slam" me for expressing it either.

Whatcha gonna do when the Hulk-ster runs wild on you?!???!!!

Bear · February 23, 2003 2:04AM

Desert Lizard - I think your premise that dealers only deal in 50,000 dollar coins is wrong.

also 99% of us on the Forum would not and could not indulge in such monetary fantasy. Most dealers

worth their salt have excellent on line sites to sell their coins. They are also available by phone to

discuss those coins. I prefer dealing with a trusted dealer even on 300 dollar coins and up.

Even the biggest dealers make their bread and butter on mid priced coins in the 500 to 5000 dollar

range.

cladking · February 23, 2003 2:14AM

The role of dealers has been evolving because of the internet, but it's not going
to go away. There will always be a demand for someone to locate and sell de-
sired coins. there will always need to be a liason between the hobby and the
general population and there will always be a demand for supplies and less ex-
pensive coins which are not as compatable with internet trade. Many of the shops
seem to be getting increasing business and as the hobby's bull market gathers steam
this is likely to continue at least in the short term.

Of course even the brick and mortar dealers are often gaining an internet presense.

fantasiize · February 23, 2003 2:19AM

In my opinion, dealer survival is evolutionary through the years.

The arrogant ones that do not care about the industry but rather just their interests are/will be gone (check out a particular dealer's site, pull up $ denominations and see if they at least categorize SBAs or Ikes - now, please note that I said categorize, not have inventory in). Does this mean that Ikes and SBAs did not exist/occur ? Usually, those type of dealers are only interested in going out to the "dollar tree" and cut as many dollars as they want.

On the other side, true service-oriented, numismatic enthusiasts that look to help, educate and oh yes, make a profit along the way will continue to survive.

crito · February 23, 2003 2:21AM

Dealers who specialize are still a valuable resource. For the average type collector or buyer of "generic" material, eBay is probably better/ faster/cheaper. When I'm looking for a specific coin, in a specific condition, a "specialist" can save you a lot of time and grief, for which I'm more than willing to compensate them.

jeffnpcb · February 23, 2003 2:52AM

No, the local dealer is not dead!! I visit my dealer once too twice a week. Checking in on your favorite dealer, you can stay on top of more current events, pick up some new coins that are only available from major wholesalers [ ASE's, mint and proof sets, etc.] or the U.S.Mint if your inclined to order. You can make that decision in person making a purchase than waiting out the delivery of auctions and long distant dealers.
Yes, they are still needed! Being around will be in your hands!

DennisH · February 23, 2003 2:54AM

I believe that one VERY good thing about eBay and other non-dealer sources of coins is, the dealers who aren't worth a darn in terms of ethics, personality, etc. will be left to die on the vine as collectors learn they don't have to tolerate them.

Dealers who remain, however, will be the good ones who have earned our trust, respect and friendship by treating us the same way.

-- Dennis

paigowjohnny · February 23, 2003 2:58AM

My humble observation...I live in what most would call a big city...San Diego. In that big city are several "brick and mortar" coin shops. Of all the shops, maybe 1 or 2 have the combination of (1) quality problem free coins I want/need and (2) reasonable prices. By reasonable prices, I mean something remotely close to retail trends prices ( I'm all for the dealer making an honest buck). All of the others have, in my opinion, one or more of the following flaws...

a. not a very diverse inventory/lack of good dates
b. very high prices, even when dealing down...
c. over graded/cleaned/overdipped/problem coins
d. crappy customer service
e. unreasonable "buy" prices on your stuff

I think there will always be a place for the Legends, Pinnacles, David Lawrences, Heritages, et al. of the world...but I don't know how these "mom and pop" places stay alive any more...what with the internet and eBay. I wish there were more successful "small" shops...I love walking into coin shops...but it's getting tougher....

Baley · February 23, 2003 3:20AM

paigowjohnny, what are your 2 favorite San Diego shops? I've bought from San Diego Coin and Bullion on Clairmont Mesa, they're pretty nice, and also at the Old Coin Shop on El Cajon, but didn't like them as much, they wear guns and are kind of abrupt to someone new, at least they were to me.

but to answer the original inquiry by TDN, I've only been into a coin shop once since I started buying coins on eBay, 2 years ago. since then I've been very much happier with the selection, and value, offered online, as well as the prices i realize when I go to sell by the same venue, so i consider eBay my "preferred" coin dealer, and it lets me even do business with larger out of town dealers.

now when I was a kid, we had a local coin shop my dad would take me to, and I'd spend saturday mornings buying circulated coins for my 20th century type set (the older ones I couldn't find in circulation), and I remember those days very fondly, it was the owners who taught me my first lessons (some inadvertently, heh) steered my interests towards gem bu silver coins and nice circulated earlier type, I will be sad to see the days of the brick and mortar coin shop end, but don't see how they can stay in business with the overhead of a store front combined with the narrower wholesale/retail spread squeezing their margins.

For more esoteric or elusive coin locating, a specialized broker dealer with connections might add value, but I'm having a hard time seeing what value a retail coin dealer's glass cases add to my coin purchases.

paigowjohnny · February 23, 2003 3:35AM

Baley...PM'd you with some thoughts...

TheNumish · February 23, 2003 3:49AM

I am almost a full time coin dealer. I have a regular job 20 hours a week. I feel like I am a new breed that doesn't have a store or set up at many shows. I sell most of my coins on ebay or directly to people I've met on line. I try to give my customers good deals and do my best to accurately describe my coins. I don't sell off brand slabs and trust my customers. My experiences have been nothing but positive. Never had a charge back on pay pal and only had one small check bounce. I'm happy and I think most of my customers are happy. I hope I can keep doing this the rest of my life.

Seems to me many collectors, several who are vocal on the boards, have a deep rooted resentment toward dealers. Admittedly some dealers are scum and should go to jail. That said I feel most dealers are good people just trying to make a living like everyone else. I just wish they could just stop crying about the bad guys and remember not everyone is tryng to take their last penny. There are a lot of good people out there to deal with and I hope this never changes.

michael · February 23, 2003 2:56PM

for me from my experience

a really good dealer thast you can trust and have a realtionship with that really knows coins and has been dealing full time for many many years and goes to all the shows and to all the auctions and knows all the players and has 100% intergrity

is for the most part the best way to acquire grest! coins the one in a million coin

as with anything else there are always exceptions to the rules

sincerely michael

Zerbe · February 23, 2003 10:38PM

TDN, I admit to bidding at the big auctions via the internet, for coins that would fill my Registry sets, sometimes spending six figures, but I have shifted away in the last 6 to 12 months.
I noticed too many coins I "won" were bid higher than they were worth. I went "wild" a few times, but quickly realized that, for some reason, my perception of buying a coin for less at an auction, was not being realized. I used to think, that mostly dealers bought the auction coins and they would then sell to the public at a profit. I thougtht I could eliminate the dealer profit by bidding on the coins myself, but I found that other internet collectors as well as collectors on the floor were paying "anything", just to obtain certain coins.
We have all seen the results of some of these surprisingly, shocking high prices realized.
I am back now to having a trusted dealer examine the coins and bid for me. The small percentage I pay the dealer, is worth getting a quality coin at a sane price. There will always be a need for a good dealer.
One last point; I am only an hour away from RARE COINS OF New Hampshire, B&M and Brett Leifer Rare Coins, and these dealers have been of great benefit to me, in many ways.
I only wish I could convince Legend and Pinnacle to relocate to New Hampshire.

Does Laura ski???

keoj · February 23, 2003 10:43PM

Great question and thread. Just to weigh in with another view on this one.

I think that in the next few years, many dealers will be dead. The reason is the same as Anaconda pointed out....the internet. The internet has allowed of better communication, and hence, a more perfect market. I make that statement in the most general way as I've seen this more perfect market bid relatively common coins up to stupid levels (but remember, it took at least 2 bidders to get them to that point). Back to a more perfect market. As a result, margins will be squeezed and only the smart will survive (and I expect will continue to do well). An appropriate analogy is the effect of the internet on new car sales. Everyone is armed with excellent information and can cut a good deal and margins on this area of business have gone down. The smart ones have gone with improved customer services and creative trade in services.

A recipe for the dealer of the future? Well, having great exposure on the internet is the first requirement. Improved customer service is another. Willingness to maybe take trade-ins at reasonable levels is another or other customer oriented ways of creating a more dynamic market. (This is one of my pet peeves...how many folks out there have bought a coin from a dealer and then watch the dealer dis the same coin when it comes time to sell.)

keoj

g097103 · February 23, 2003 11:06PM

I don't think the local dealer will completely disappear. The ones such as mine who understands that he is a vendor and
provides customer service will survive and do well. I often have mixed feeling about going to shows, the dealers seem
to forget that they are vendors and there is another one who can take my money just as easily. I think the prima
dona vendors will die off as the internet makes more choices available. Granted I'm not a $50,000 buyer but I do and
will buy.

smprfi · February 23, 2003 11:07PM

No I don't think so.Nothing like walking into a coin shop or show and seeing a coin in person.You also have the benefit of someone learning what you like and their help in finding what you want.

dakra · February 23, 2003 11:27PM

My 2 Cents... I found it disheartning when I drove around town looking for area dealers and finding only 2 of 5 were still in existance but one was renovating. The one dealer who did have a shop, I was unhappy with... The search went on.

In my opinion, Ebay has hurt the dealer but even though I buy coins from Ebay and from other collectors... I still need that Coin Dealer who runs a shop. I like the feeling of being able to handle the coin before I buy it.

Atleast in my area, there doesn't seem to be as many dealers as there once was but going to that coin show this past Sunday... made me feel good to know they are out there!

-Dave

DeepCoin · February 23, 2003 11:57PM

The rise of the Internet has been both good and bad for dealers IMHO. Those who have adapted have discovered that it is an excellent way to stay in touch and to reach out to collectors who have specific needs.

Those who have not seen the paradigm shift will be run over by those who are using technology in order to better serve their customers. The use of data bases for want lists and being able to fulfill the specific (and sometimes very narrow) collecting interests of a variety of collectors is the hall mark of those who will thrive in the new environment.

What eBay has done is invigorate those who have felt ripped off by low prices being offered for their coins. The little guy now has an alternative to selling his coins to the local dealer if he wants to do some work. IMHO this has been a boon to the hobby for a couple of reasons. If you feel that you can get most of your money out of a coin if you upgrade, you are more prone to buy an upgrade as the cost is less. The more important part is not feeling taken by what you feel are excessively low offers for your coins. This is all perception, I understand a bricks and mortar dealer needs to cover overhead, make a profit... ect. But the ablility to sell your own coins really has opened up things, again IMHO.

There will always be a place for the dealer, he may just be operating a bit differently these days and some who have not changed will probably become marginalized and we may see some fall out (if not already at the mom and pop level).

ScarsdaleCoin · February 24, 2003 1:04AM

You have some interesting points...but "good" coin dealers will still be here for a long time.....yest there are many auctions out there, yes many ebay sites, and yes many more people getting burned ...a good dealer is still a great source for getting a collector the coins wanted!

redhott · February 24, 2003 4:04AM

I expect full service coin dealers to thrive like they haven't for a good many years.

The mid to late 1970's run-up in bullion changed things. Before that, a coin shop was a coin shop. The run-up brought with it a whole new breed of "coin dealers" who were just as interested in buying bullion, watches and jewelry, or grandma's sterling. Suddenly the Yellow Pages' listings for coin dealers contained names never before heard of. Visits to those new "dealers" was an eye opener. I'll never forget being told: "We don't have any coins here, we only buy." Obviously, after visiting several coin dealers, even a new collector will realize there's a difference between a shop that offers full service coin dealing and a shop that exists to buy. However, when grandma liquidates her late husband's collection because all the grand kids are girls who don't care about coins, she probably will never know there's a difference if she hits the "buying" shop first. You better believe that when it comes to small local dealers, the "buying" shop who always pays in cash, even for $20K worth of Saints, can make more profit for less effort, than a full service dealer, no hands down.

This change made it much more difficult for the full service dealers, as it removed from their reach some of the "gravy," as well as reduced the variety of inventory which they could show to new collectors. That variety of desireable coins became a new source for the national auctioneers, and increased the number of auctioneers as well. [Today's parallel with eBay is astounding, when you consider it.] Many full service dealers were forced to adapt to even stay in business, much as the online world is forcing another wave of adapting. Back then, the opportunities for adaptation were limited, many old timers were set in their ways, so were not good enough at salesmanship to make up for the lost profit. For financial reasons, the changes of the '70s also made it near impossible for a new, young dealer to successfully start up that new full service dealership at a new location.

At the same time, the rising prices and influx of new money into coins made possible a dramatic increase in the number of super-dealers doing business nationally. These became the dealers who no longer had the motivation or inclination to search every wheatie bag, as the old time coin shop would. While the changes brought about by the big run-up were destructive to the hobby because they brought about fragmentation, the changes brought about by the online world are much less destructive, as the cost of entry into the online business is within the reach of any full service dealer needing to adapt. It's now fairly easy for full service coin dealers to offer more services than ever before, and at this time I imagine they're limited only by their imagination. The state quarter program that brought about enormous new interest in coin collecting boosted the number of dealers needed to service them. The online world has enabled former collectors to step in and become part of the dealer fraternity, as unwelcome as they may be.

Historically, such rapid change and simultaneous diversity, coupled with easier access has been nothing short of revolutionary, regardless of the field. I'm expecting to see great things happening among the truly knowledgeable full service dealers. I've never felt so confident.

dorkkarl · February 24, 2003 4:09AM

<< <i>Are coin dealers done for - is there any use for them anymore? >>

huh? don't think so. coin-dealer wannabe's - i have no use for. actually, call me nutty, call me crazy, call me dorky! but imo, there are only perhaps a couple hundred real coin-dealers in the country today. the rest are wannabe's (not that i don't do biz w/ wannabe's...)

K S

Elcontador · February 24, 2003 5:06AM

I didn't have a chance to read the whole thread, but I'm with EVP on this.

Some auctions houses take the position "you won it, it's yours" re slabbed material. I will not bid on an auction coin unless someone I trust has looked the coin over. Even then, two people whose judgement I trust have in the past had differing opinions on a coin which interested me.

I will not buy a coin sight unseen unless I have a no questions asked five to ten day return privilege, period.

Anyone who has a different position re sight unseen coins has gotten or will get a rude awakening. I never get a coin from certain auction companies because as Zerbe said, some people with deep pockets go ape**** and bid up the coin far more than it is worth.

As I don't have the time to personally inspect all auction coins which may interest me, I don't mind paying a dealer a commission to find a coin
which I otherwise might miss.

satootoko · February 24, 2003 5:13AM

<< <i>The ones such as mine who understands that he is a vendor and provides customer service will survive and do well. >>

How does one go about finding this kind?

I've visited every shop in my phone book and either found small stock, unfriendly dealer, or lack of interest in helping a new customer.

Aside to Smprfi - You sure picked up that new sig line quick. I just cut that out of this morning's paper to put on my refrigerator!

MrKelso · February 24, 2003 7:49AM

The local dealer is dead here in New Jersey. Years ago they were a dime a Dozen, Now i have to travel one hour by car or one day by stage coach to visit a coin dealer.

Bear · February 24, 2003 7:56AM

Mr Kelso, many legitimate and fine dealers have excellant web sites, good pictures

and good service. To get the coins I need, I have developed a relationship with a number

of dealers on this Forum and have not been dissappointed. They have a no questions asked return

policy and a wide selection of coins. Use your computor and enjoy the hobbu.

MrKelso · February 24, 2003 8:24AM

Good advise bear,
But i think we loose the human to human thing by doing it all on the PC. I work in the PC industry and i always say that i would rather have 2 little old ladies with a roladex and a typewriter to help me then one person with a pc. Chances are i will learn something from the Ladies about history about there families and grandchildren.

Going to the dealer, even if it is far away to me is always best. I can sit around the counter and look at pieces of Golden History pluck down my money have a nice chat and learn a few new things, make new friends and go home happy.

Buy via the Internet is ok sometimes but for the most part i will alway love the trip to the dealer. It is So sad that there are no more dealers in my area, at one time years ago there were about 15 dealers. So i drive about an hour to see a dealer and i am happy. I must visit the dealer down by Airplanenut that is a 35 minute ride.

Bear · February 24, 2003 8:28AM

Thats why we have phones and dealers have toll free numbers. I chat with the dealers all the time

on the phone and thru PMs.

Long live the coin dealers?

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