<< <i>Several people have already pointed this out, but with high mintage figures and lots of people keeping the coins in pristine condition, there are likely millions of each of these coins out there in MS69 condition. In fact, for most dates, more than half the coins submitted to PCGS have graded 69 (and only a very small percentage have been submitted). >>
jgrech- You are mistaken about the percentage of coins submitted making MS-69. The vast, vast majority of coins submitted are submitted in bulk, usually 500 coins or more. They are submitted with the stipulation that only MS-69, or higher, are to be holdered. If someone submits 2,000 coins and 200 of them make MS-69, then Populations for total submitted will rise by 200, not 2,000. The other 1,800 coins are not reflected in the Population report.
There are not large numbers of people collecting these coins. Each year a new coin is issued and a few more people start collecting them. At some point demand is likely to be higher than supply.
The price behavior that you have seen gets back to the nature of the modern coin market, which starts continuing and never ending debates on these boards. I advise caution when buying modern coins. Many people take strong issue with me on that.
Unlike most modern coins, the silver bullion coins do not circulate. And unlike other mass-produced modern coins, the mint makes an effort to produce silver eagles that are well struck and attractive. Therefore the VAST majority of silver eagles are in Mint State, and there are many high grade Mint State coins around that have not been certified. If the prices get high the profit motive prompts people to look their silver eagles over and send them in for grading. The more coins that are sent in, the more MS-69s and the like that will come on the market. More coins on the market often translates into lower prices.
My advice is collect these pieces for fun and not profit. Therefore it’s not a good idea to put more money into these coins than you are willing to lose.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If we all took the time to actually read the threads before responding we might see that the threads originator is actually Bulloncoins. There are those with a vested interest in the classics and they slam all moderns at all times regardless of issue or content of the thread.
They have vast amounts tied up in classics and it is apparent their motives are suspect in some cases.
I tend to agree with that last one. I mean if there are so many perfect coins out there waiting to be slabed, and they are graded too liberal, then where are the ms70's?
Travis
-------- Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue tied and twisted Just an earthbound misfit, I
MS-70 is a controversial grade because some people believe that nothing is perfect, or at least it won’t remain perfect for very long because it is bound to tone or tarnish eventually.
The silver eagles are very popular collector coins. There are many people who maintain sets and eagerly await the new year so that they can add new coins to their collections. Many of these collectors like to keep them in albums of some sort and don’t buy slabbed coins. That makes for quite a difference in price since common date and the current year’s silver eagles usually sell for $7 or less. It's not unusual to see collectors going though rolls of silver eagles at dealers' tables to find the best pieces.
Collecting silver eagles in slabs for competition in the registries is a whole different market. It’s more volatile because these coins are priced far beyond their bullion value, and their value is tied to collector demand. As I said before the pool or supply of available Mint State coins is pretty large because these coins do not circulate, and they are generally well struck by the mint. Those factors add to market volatility
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I agree. But in all of the 18 years of these wonderful modern coin productions....Not one pcg ms70?( At least I don't see a value for one in any of the charts.) They must not be that liberal in their grading. I saw an ms70 in another grader's slab on Ebay, but I have to stick with PCGS.......
Travis
-------- Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies Tongue tied and twisted Just an earthbound misfit, I
Collecting silver eagles in slabs for competition in the registries is a whole different market. It’s more volatile because these coins are priced far beyond their bullion value, and their value is tied to collector demand. As I said before the pool or supply of available Mint State coins is pretty large because these coins do not circulate, and they are generally well struck by the mint. Those factors add to market volatility >>
This, of course, applies equally well to the coins in which the author has a financial stake. His coins are priced well beyond their bullion value and their value is tied to demand. It is curious that the author finds it necessary to slam anything modern at any opportiunity. It is fascinating he should cast stones at the integrity of those who would dare to enjoy col- lecting these coins or to buy coins they feel might increase in price if they are moderns. It is surprising that he is immune to anyone else's opinion even when it is backed by logic and facts. It is sad that he has so little constructive to say.
I keep two nice sets in Intercept Shiel albums. All of my stuff is raw. I just collect for the fun of it, hoping that my kids will enjoy them later on. I always thought it would have been neat if my granddad had left some older coins, so I am trying to do just that. If you hang around here, you will probably feel guilty that you have not gotten started on a JFK set, or a Frankie set, so you might as well start.
Bullioncoins, the fact that PCGS doesn't slab Silver Eagles as PF-70 or MS-70 is just a big scam. They are manipulating the market for current and future gains. I will probably get slammed for saying this, but I just can't hold back any longer. Come on now, can you tell the difference between a PF-70 coin and a PF-69 coin? How about PF-68 and PF-69? It's kind of a trick question, since such lofty grades are really just a matter of opinion. Personal opinions also change from day to day, so a PF-69 on Monday could possibly be a PF-70 the next day to the same professional grader.
I saw David Hall's ad in Coin World a few weeks ago. It was all about modern coins...mostly Silver Eagles in PCGS slabs. Not one single PF-70 or MS-70 coin, but a lot of 68's and 69's. This is also to trick the collecting community into thinking that NOT EVEN Homerun Hall can get a PF-70 in a PCGS holder. Human nature tells most people to send in their bullion coins (silver eagles) to get slabbed. If you send in 20 coins, maybe 1 could come back as a 69. Send in 1000 and you may just get a 70, which is probably worth about $5000. The irony is that they are all the same "coins": minted on polished planchets under tightly controlled conditions in a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility. The funny thing is that even if Homerun Hall would have sold every coin in the ad, it would not even cover the cost of the full page spread. Illogical.
If PCGS slabbed more Silver Eagles as PF-70, the market would be diluted to the point that less people would send in their "coins" for certification. The risk/reward potential would be minimized. Get it? Too many PF-70's on the market and the value of a 70 is minimized....so why gamble on sending in 100 coins for certification? It's really embarrassing how many people are falling for this gimmick. It's cartoon-like in nature.
Bottom line - the majority of the ASE MS coins in MS69 are simply "party bag and wedding coins" (see the Legend thread on moderns, if you do not know what I am talking about). Yes, there are a few better MS dates (no question), but most of the dates are a "dime a dozen" in MS69 fresh from the roll. For example, I had 5 or 6 fresh rolls of 1988 Eagles sitting here and I cracked the first roll looking for perfect coins. No totally perfect coins, but virtually every coin was MS69 quality. I added 5 coins to an order to PCGS and got back 5 PCGS-MS69 coins. I didn't even bother looking at the other rolls, as I got tired by the experience and realized I didn't need to slab 100 MS69 coins. It's that easy for many of the dates. FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, HOWEVER, THEY ARE SELDOM SEEN IN TRUE MS70 GRADE.
So, IMHO, the dropping price of ASE MS69 coins is absolutely no reflection on the modern coin market as a whole, or a reflection on otherwise scarce MS Modern coin issues. It is simply a reflection of the fact that those particular ASE coins can be produced faster than buyers can be produced - hence falling prices. If hundreds of new buyers enter the market any time soon, IMHO, the trend might possibly adjust the other way, but, I certainly wouldn't hold my breathe. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
wondercoin, you send in 5 silver eagles and you got 5 MS-69 coins in PCGS holders. Hmmm. What did that cost you? $15 per coin? Aren't these $7 coins? Why? You fell for PCGS' scam also. You pants are around your ankles and you did not even know that they unbuckled your belt.
The funny thing is that even if Homerun Hall would have sold every coin in the ad, it would not even cover the cost of the full page spread. Illogical.
Illogical only if you make the assumption that he only had one of each to offer.
It took me to Pappadeau's(spelling), where I got the best food I have ever had, period!!!
The last I heard, the Pappas family had over 80 restaurants in the Houston area. They have Italian, Tex-Mex, seafood, cajan, BBQ and an upscale steak house. All of them incredibly tasty. They expanded to some of the other major Texas cities (although with fewer locations). Their only out-of-state locations (last I heard) were in Atlanta. Definately a treat if you have time to stop in at one. Karin and I used to go regularly and split an entre--still plenty for both of us and often a little left for a doggie bag.
Wayne, I considered that Homerun had several of each, but he described each listing as if it were unique. Thanks to your post I just realized that he probably had 100's of each grade. In fact, he probably slabbed each coin as the orders came in:
"yeah, grading room, homerun here, I just got an order for another 200 1986 eagles in 69. Could you whip up some slabs for me? Thanks, kiddo. I'll make sure that you get another 100,000 shares of company stock in your Christmas stocking this year"
Welcome bull, I love the sae series. But I bought like 200 in 1996 the year my son was born. I went through them and came up with 15 I thought would be graded 69 and 5 I thought would be 70. coins were bought in Albany in march 1996. then put away till I opened them to start selling, and get graded. Boy was I disapointed, 1 came back 69, 10 WERE 68, 8 WERE 67 AND ONE WAS 66. AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU THE 69 HAS A TIC ON ONE OF THE RAYS OF THE SUN THAT IT DIDN'T HAVE WHEN IT WAS SENT IN. So you be the judge, And have fun.
I saw your note about Silver Eagles. I believe that you are mistaken about pricing on pr70 dcam's. The market is about $3000 for a PR70 from PCGS.. There was no Silver Eagle PCGS PR for $1000 on ebay. You must have been looking at the Bi-centennial.
Welcome to the forum: When silver eagles first came out, critics of the series said that they would never amount to anything more than bullion slugs of silver. These same so called experts are now critics of quality pieces that reside in 69 and 70 holders. They claim that there is no difference in quality and they are overpriced. These so-called experts do not know how to grade and obviously they were proven wrong the first and will be proven wrong again.
Comments
<< <i>Several people have already pointed this out, but with high mintage figures and lots of people keeping the coins in pristine condition, there are likely millions of each of these coins out there in MS69 condition. In fact, for most dates, more than half the coins submitted to PCGS have graded 69 (and only a very small percentage have been submitted). >>
jgrech- You are mistaken about the percentage of coins submitted making MS-69. The vast, vast majority of coins submitted are submitted in bulk, usually 500 coins or more. They are submitted with the stipulation that only MS-69, or higher, are to be holdered. If someone submits 2,000 coins and 200 of them make MS-69, then Populations for total submitted will rise by 200, not 2,000. The other 1,800 coins are not reflected in the Population report.
coin is issued and a few more people start collecting them. At some point demand
is likely to be higher than supply.
...and welcome to the boards.
The price behavior that you have seen gets back to the nature of the modern coin market, which starts continuing and never ending debates on these boards. I advise caution when buying modern coins. Many people take strong issue with me on that.
Unlike most modern coins, the silver bullion coins do not circulate. And unlike other mass-produced modern coins, the mint makes an effort to produce silver eagles that are well struck and attractive. Therefore the VAST majority of silver eagles are in Mint State, and there are many high grade Mint State coins around that have not been certified. If the prices get high the profit motive prompts people to look their silver eagles over and send them in for grading. The more coins that are sent in, the more MS-69s and the like that will come on the market. More coins on the market often translates into lower prices.
My advice is collect these pieces for fun and not profit. Therefore it’s not a good idea to put more money into these coins than you are willing to lose.
see that the threads originator is actually Bulloncoins. There are those with a vested interest
in the classics and they slam all moderns at all times regardless of issue or content of the thread.
They have vast amounts tied up in classics and it is apparent their motives are suspect in some cases.
--------
Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes
from the circling skies
Tongue tied and twisted
Just an earthbound misfit,
I
">my registry set
The silver eagles are very popular collector coins. There are many people who maintain sets and eagerly await the new year so that they can add new coins to their collections. Many of these collectors like to keep them in albums of some sort and don’t buy slabbed coins. That makes for quite a difference in price since common date and the current year’s silver eagles usually sell for $7 or less. It's not unusual to see collectors going though rolls of silver eagles at dealers' tables to find the best pieces.
Collecting silver eagles in slabs for competition in the registries is a whole different market. It’s more volatile because these coins are priced far beyond their bullion value, and their value is tied to collector demand. As I said before the pool or supply of available Mint State coins is pretty large because these coins do not circulate, and they are generally well struck by the mint. Those factors add to market volatility
--------
Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes
from the circling skies
Tongue tied and twisted
Just an earthbound misfit,
I
">my registry set
<< <i>
Collecting silver eagles in slabs for competition in the registries is a whole different market. It’s more volatile because these coins are priced far beyond their bullion value, and their value is tied to collector demand. As I said before the pool or supply of available Mint State coins is pretty large because these coins do not circulate, and they are generally well struck by the mint. Those factors add to market volatility >>
This, of course, applies equally well to the coins in which the author has a financial stake.
His coins are priced well beyond their bullion value and their value is tied to demand. It is
curious that the author finds it necessary to slam anything modern at any opportiunity. It
is fascinating he should cast stones at the integrity of those who would dare to enjoy col-
lecting these coins or to buy coins they feel might increase in price if they are moderns. It
is surprising that he is immune to anyone else's opinion even when it is backed by logic and
facts. It is sad that he has so little constructive to say.
Turn on your pm!
I keep two nice sets in Intercept Shiel albums. All of my stuff is raw. I just collect for the fun of it, hoping that my kids will enjoy them later on. I always thought it would have been neat if my granddad had left some older coins, so I am trying to do just that. If you hang around here, you will probably feel guilty that you have not gotten started on a JFK set, or a Frankie set, so you might as well start.
Tom
I saw David Hall's ad in Coin World a few weeks ago. It was all about modern coins...mostly Silver Eagles in PCGS slabs. Not one single PF-70 or MS-70 coin, but a lot of 68's and 69's. This is also to trick the collecting community into thinking that NOT EVEN Homerun Hall can get a PF-70 in a PCGS holder. Human nature tells most people to send in their bullion coins (silver eagles) to get slabbed. If you send in 20 coins, maybe 1 could come back as a 69. Send in 1000 and you may just get a 70, which is probably worth about $5000. The irony is that they are all the same "coins": minted on polished planchets under tightly controlled conditions in a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility. The funny thing is that even if Homerun Hall would have sold every coin in the ad, it would not even cover the cost of the full page spread. Illogical.
If PCGS slabbed more Silver Eagles as PF-70, the market would be diluted to the point that less people would send in their "coins" for certification. The risk/reward potential would be minimized. Get it? Too many PF-70's on the market and the value of a 70 is minimized....so why gamble on sending in 100 coins for certification? It's really embarrassing how many people are falling for this gimmick. It's cartoon-like in nature.
Bottom line - the majority of the ASE MS coins in MS69 are simply "party bag and wedding coins" (see the Legend thread on moderns, if you do not know what I am talking about). Yes, there are a few better MS dates (no question), but most of the dates are a "dime a dozen" in MS69 fresh from the roll. For example, I had 5 or 6 fresh rolls of 1988 Eagles sitting here and I cracked the first roll looking for perfect coins. No totally perfect coins, but virtually every coin was MS69 quality. I added 5 coins to an order to PCGS and got back 5 PCGS-MS69 coins. I didn't even bother looking at the other rolls, as I got tired by the experience and realized I didn't need to slab 100 MS69 coins. It's that easy for many of the dates. FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, HOWEVER, THEY ARE SELDOM SEEN IN TRUE MS70 GRADE.
So, IMHO, the dropping price of ASE MS69 coins is absolutely no reflection on the modern coin market as a whole, or a reflection on otherwise scarce MS Modern coin issues. It is simply a reflection of the fact that those particular ASE coins can be produced faster than buyers can be produced - hence falling prices. If hundreds of new buyers enter the market any time soon, IMHO, the trend might possibly adjust the other way, but, I certainly wouldn't hold my breathe.
NumisED: YOU ARE TOTALLY WRONG!! I KNEW FULL WELL THAT THEY UNBUCKLED MY BELT!!
Wondercoin
Illogical only if you make the assumption that he only had one of each to offer.
WH
--------
Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes
from the circling skies
Tongue tied and twisted
Just an earthbound misfit,
I
">my registry set
The last I heard, the Pappas family had over 80 restaurants in the Houston area. They have Italian, Tex-Mex, seafood, cajan, BBQ and an upscale steak house. All of them incredibly tasty. They expanded to some of the other major Texas cities (although with fewer locations). Their only out-of-state locations (last I heard) were in Atlanta. Definately a treat if you have time to stop in at one. Karin and I used to go regularly and split an entre--still plenty for both of us and often a little left for a doggie bag.
WH
"yeah, grading room, homerun here, I just got an order for another 200 1986 eagles in 69. Could you whip up some slabs for me? Thanks, kiddo. I'll make sure that you get another 100,000 shares of company stock in your Christmas stocking this year"
--------
Howdy from Houston...
Can't keep my eyes
from the circling skies
Tongue tied and twisted
Just an earthbound misfit,
I
">my registry set
<< <i>OK...Slow learner got pm on.
21 posts on the first day. and it's still early. and your profile and PM are on.
We're gonna have another front runner here.
Prices go up and down....
As for whether I like SAE's or not myself......?? ;-)
Lurking with intent to loom
When silver eagles first came out, critics of the series said that they would never amount to anything
more than bullion slugs of silver.
These same so called experts are now critics of quality pieces that reside in 69 and 70 holders.
They claim that there is no difference in quality and they are overpriced.
These so-called experts do not know how to grade and obviously they were proven wrong the first and will be proven wrong again.
Enjoy the hobby,
Brian.
Your eagles look a little on the "well done" side.
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."