If you have read correctly, my posts never laid blame on anyone. However, your post was interesting, very opinionated and missed the whole target of the argument.
Here is my response to teller's position the the US is like Nazi Germany.
TT said, "A country that is morally superior to others" Germany considered itself racially superior first and foremost. For them everything flowed from this presupposition. If you people can’t see that America IS morally superior to Saddam’s Iraq then you aren’t paying attention and are probably morally bankrupt yourself. There is right and wrong, there is good and evil, and there are those that are morally superior to others. That is fact of life whether you acknowledge it or not.
TT said, "A country that is THE major military might in the world" I will cede this
TT said, "A country that imposes it's will on others" All countries seek to impose their will and to support their national interest. It is called foreign policy. You must really hate Communists right? Oh I forgot communist revolution is liberation isn’t it comrade.
TT said, "A country that frenzies it's citizens into national pride" Get real. You can’t compare people flying the American flag on their house or car with Hitler youth marches or massive candlelight gatherings. Not even a close comparison. BTW, I don’t remember reading or hearing about any significant protest marches occurring in Nazi Germany, do you?
TT said, "A country that sees foreigners and thier opinions as foolish" This happens all the time and all over the world. This is not some behavior specific to Nazi Germany or the US or Europe. But in keeping with your position then you must also believe that Germany and France are also similar to Nazi Germany since they see us as foolish. Oh wait, that’s right, this argument only counts when used against the USA alone.
TT said, "A country whose leadership does not reflect the will of the people" Please provide quantitative and qualitative data to support this argument. I believe it false prima facia. Remember this, while a million people may have protested in the streets on Saturday, 279 million stayed home.
TT said, "A country that terrorizes it's citizenship with imminent attack" Well I can’t speak for those that exist outside the bubble that is my life but I haven’t run into too many Americans that have been ‘terrorized’ as you put it. This is a non-argument. Again, it is false prima facia. Per the Boy Scouts of America, "Be prepared".
TT said, "A country who will attack without provocation" You mean like the Soviet Union or FARC narco-terrorists right? There is a war on terror going on in case you'veev been asleep for a couple of years. In the case of Iraq, they have breached the CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT. Saddam cannot be allowed to transfer chemical or biological weapons to terrorist groups. If you cannot grasp this concept then you simply refuse to. Nothing I could say would change your mind.
I could make the comparison that a thrown rock is like a star. They both are hurtling through space, they are both spherical, and they both contain energy. But of course that comparison is weak just like yours. The thing is not how Nazi Germany and the US are similar but rather how they are different. That is what is important.
Do you even realize there are oil barricks in people's backyards here in Los Angeles? Why is using a few acres in the frozen tundra of Alaska worse then paying Terrorists with money that will come back to us in the way of Anthrax, Nerve Gas and/or missiles?
And please don't give me that garbage about it would take 8 years to benefit from drilling in ANWR. If we had started 8 or 9 years ago we would see the benefits NOW.
Or, I guess some people such as yourself would rather pay money to the Mid East Terrorists, huh?
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
If you are fearful of the federal budget deficit, then I pity you. You have no solace in Democrats, Socialists, or Communists. Right-wing Republicans are your only glimmer of hope, but even they don't call enough shots in Washington to affect the tax-and-spend nature of the "normal" politicians. And somehow, I don't picture you as a Right-winger.
You would never be happy in Canada or any western European nation. Mexico and Brazil are out, too. I think you are stuck being frightened for the rest of your life!
"The last thing we want to see is a smoking gun. A gun smokes after it's been fired…. If someone waits for a smoking gun, it's certain we will have waited too long."
JJacks -- no, no, I never made a determination about the morality of the situation. Drill away in Alaska, drill away in Iraq, drill away in Los Angeles, doesn't bother me. I was commenting that the environmentalist were holding up oil drilling and a war in the middle east might cause some to ease concerns over grizzly bears and bald eagles when US service men are being killed on foreign soil.
TT, yes very opiniated, experience is a dear teacher. Far too many people fear being judgemental, I don't. As for what you meant to convey in your posts, 70% of how something is interpretated is on the listeners or reader's side.
There is a lot of room up there. Most of the pollution that I saw was from Native Americans discarding gas cans on the ice after running their traplines with snowmobiles and refueling. They left them on the ice in the winter..some still partially filled with gas. This was 200 miles above the Arctic Circle.
GWB and his oil barrons have been pushing for increased drilling rights, they may now get them.
Sure makes it sound like you are against drilling in Alaska, doesn't it? Personally, I would love to reduce our reliance on MidEast oil, but we need all sides in the U.S. (dems and Repubs) to come to some agreements to do so. Maybe the Dems could find it in their hearts to allow oil drilling in Alaska for more environmental protections, elsewhere? Or, could it be they really don't want to U.S. to be able to reduce our reliance on Mid East oil?
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
TT said, "A country that frenzies it's citizens into national pride" Get real. You can’t compare people flying the American flag on their house or car with Hitler youth marches or massive candlelight gatherings. Not even a close comparison. BTW, I don’t remember reading or hearing about any significant protest marches occurring in Nazi Germany, do you
Actually, you are again incorrect. During post WWI, there was a serious depression in remaining Germany. With major portions of the nation ceded away, Prussia, Alsace, Arden, etc. The country was in the thoes of a major shame. In addition, the opposing allies forced major hardship on the country(just like Iraq and the sanctions) forcing the new government to pay for all war destruction, giving a breeding ground for nationalistic tendencies. The democratic elections in 1932 gave the NAZI party a foothold, where they had not been taken seriously in the past. In a matter of months, the German nation had now rallied behind a leader, who made the shame go away, and made the people find scapegoats for their problems(sounds very familiar), the rest is history. Of course there were rallies against the NAZI party early on, but by 1934, the die was cast, and the pollical leadership had quashed all opposition. The start was minor, the results were major.
**************
TT said, "A country whose leadership does not reflect the will of the people" Please provide quantitative and qualitative data to support this argument. I believe it false prima facia. Remember this, while a million people may have protested in the streets on Saturday, 279 million stayed home.
The lastest news polls put 'no war without UN' at close to 60%
This thread has reminded me of a story a friend told me. I think it went something like this!
A sign at a business establishment in Philadelphia, PA:
"WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 AL QAEDA TERRORISTS THAN WITH A SINGLE AMERICAN"
This sign was prominently displayed in the window of a business in Philadelphia.
You are probably outraged at the thought of such an inflammatory statement. One would think that anti-hate groups from all across the country would be marching on this business... And that the National Guard might have to be called to keep the angry crowds back.
But, perhaps in these stressful times one might be tempted to let the proprietors simply make their statement . . . We are a society who holds Freedom of Speech as perhaps our greatest liberty . . . And after all, it is just a sign.. You may ask what kind of business would dare post such a sign?
"The last thing we want to see is a smoking gun. A gun smokes after it's been fired…. If someone waits for a smoking gun, it's certain we will have waited too long."
I think that the whole reason that we haven't completely taken them out yet, is because of our independence on foreign oil. There are different kinds of fuel that are made from renewable resources, and they have been around for quite a while. The oil companies have a big say in the government, and they're the ones that are ultimately preventing us from further implementing a renewable fuel source.
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever. -Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
And who said morticians couldn't have a litte fun!!!
"The last thing we want to see is a smoking gun. A gun smokes after it's been fired…. If someone waits for a smoking gun, it's certain we will have waited too long."
I love how you avoid the actual argument (Re: Stalin). You did not asnwer my question. If a friend of yours from the past committed a crime today would be responsible in any way?
They are no advisers in Venezuela. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along or what.
You need to read something besides Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn.
Are you staunchly communist or am I misunderstanding?
Look, you won't change my mind and I doubt I could change yours so what is the point. I merely wanted to respond to your Nazi comparison. Good day.
edited to add: BTW, that's a nice move discarding my comments by simply saying 'weak or emotional'.
One major concept I realize, and conclude, especially on these forums, is that people in this country love to HATE. If it isn't your neighbor, it's your teacher. If it's not your family, it's your government. Blame, blame, blame. I hear on the radio all the time, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannety, Micheal Reagan, all they do is HATE, bring down, ridicule. I have yet to hear them say anything uplifting for this country. This is tantamount to rallying the troops, and going off for the kill. Those who say that foreigners hate US ideals and US way of life, they have a valid point.
The foreigners hate our money, how we stole it from the smaller countries, native americans, minorities.
The foreigners hate our family unity, at more than 50% divorce rate and highest teen mother, single mother rate of any western country.
The foregners hate our industry, how we send off jobs to China and cut our local labor employment by hiring undocumented workers.
The foreigners hate our religion, how we try to impose 'Christianity' on Moslems, Jews, Hindus, Arabs.
The foreigners hate our intellengence, how the US has one of the highest illiteracy rate of any western country.
The foreigners hate our military might, how this country can do what it wants without the rest of the world agreement. To heck with the UN, we're gonna kill.
I would love to hear the good virtues of America, but this leadership is killing them.
TRUTH
Bsqr,
Come on, I expected better. Painting the opposition a communist? Macarthism? Reaching for straws? Arguments stand on merits.
I don't want to keep commenting on this topic, but I think that your last post is one of the worst, most sickening posts I have ever read on these boards.
First off all, most if not all of what ever you stated there was going on before Bush ever became president (I know the liberals would like to blame Bush for killing native americans back in the 1600s however), yet you mock him as a terrible leader.
Second, whether foreigners hate our religion, our industry, our military, etc. is not important here. I may hate certain things about the French government, but I don't hijack their planes and go crashing them into their buildings. I don't get together with others who hate the French government to stockpile Anthrax and Nerve Gas, etc. I don't march on streets buring French flags. I understand that people are different, and not all French agree with their government, and the Middle East people should understand that not all Americans agree with the American Government. As hard as it may be for you to understand, no matter how badly some people may hate our government is absolutely 0% justification for killing innocent people in the U.S.
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
I'm glad I sicken you, it means you have understood a different point of view other than your own. As I understand it, the Iraqi's haven't killed any Americans, so why kill them? Simple question, which you cannot answer. By attacking me, it shows you are emotional on the subject. Maybe some emotion will make you think.
I'm emotional am I? Yeah, I guess it would upset me to see thousands of Americans killed. Maybe that wouldn't upset some people here. I guess some things are just worth fighting for.
So I guess what you are saying is wait until Iraq comes after us, and maybe kills thousands (or more) and then go take them out, huh? You know, if a guy walks into a bank with a loaded gun and starts shooting, but hasn't actually hit anyone yet, does the guard have to wait until some one is dead to start acting? If the police have a verifed tip that a group plans to bomb a building, do they have to wait for the deaths to pile up to do anything. I think you get my point.
It is 100% certain in my mind that given the right opprotunity Hussain would gladly kill as many Americans as he could. Maybe you don't agree. I can only hope you are right I guess, but I don't want to bet on it.
JJacks
Always buying music cards of artists I like! PSA or raw! Esp want PSA 10s 1991 Musicards Marx, Elton, Bryan Adams, etc. And 92/93 Country Gold AJ, Clint Black, Tim McGraw PSA 10s
I love the land, love the people, just sick of the hypocrisy of the nation's leaders and the henchmen, of any political party that runs the country who espouse our 'good' values and deride all others.
Yes!!!!!!!! We need to do it now. The European countries appeased Hitler and what did it get them? The french needed US to bail them out twice in the last century. Why do they forget thier own history, they are doomed to repeat it. It will be far less costly on the people of Iraq if we go in and take him out than if he was left free to destroy his own country. I do not want to HAVE to go in there because he did something else or helped it happen. We have the technology to go in there and do what we have to with far less collateral damage than has ever happened in a war in the history of the world. Yws there will be losses both ours and thiers. That is the cost of war. In the end we will prevail and he will be dead or in a prision. After we have taken care of him, others will follow. We will take care of them even swifter. Eventually there will be less and less like him to deal with. At that time is when people will begin to realize that we have done the right thing. Untill then we will be blamed for all that goes wrong. We must persever. We must not lose focus on our goals. We will win the war over tyrany.
DANIEL SOUKUP USAF RETIRED
United States Air Force Retired And Would Do It Again.
Let's not forget, without the French, there would be no Colonist victories during the American revolution and no USA today. In addition, the French helped the US with the War of 1812, whereby this young nation was almost defeated and Washington DC burned. Let's not think that the French just 'owe' us, but we 'owe' them.
<< <i>As hard as it may be for you to understand, no matter how badly some people may hate our government is absolutely 0% justification for killing innocent people in the U.S. >>
Exactly. Now...what did that have to do with Iraq?
BTW, there was a great many innocent people killed in Afganastan last fall. Was there justification for that?
<< <i>Germany considered itself racially superior first and foremost. For them everything flowed from this presupposition. If you people can’t see that America IS morally superior to Saddam’s Iraq then you aren’t paying attention and are probably morally bankrupt yourself. >>
I hate to inform you that the "black and white" world you wish to live it doesn't exsist. There are many things wrong with this county (TT named a few) so how does that give us the right to run around the world stating how morally superior we are? There are MILLIONS around the world that appearently disagree with us. I guess they are all "morally bankrupt".
<< <i>The mad man? Are you speaking about GWBush? If so then I agree. We should not do it without U.N. backing. I don't like the way GW is acting, it seems so Un- American. We aren't suppose to be bullies! He needs to turn his attention to the Economy!!!!! >>
No i ment the mad man that is killing his own people GW is not killing his own people now is he?
Saddam is a madman and needs a bullett in HIS HEAD AND THATS MY FINAL ANSWER.
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
Yes, do it, do it now! Bush has to fight since he already spent all that money getting all the troops and equipment there. Bringing all that home will again require a lot of money and the shame, oh the shame....
The main reason all of this started is oil in any case. The gas over here in California is up to $1.85 per gallon for the cheapest grade. I think we should all go out and buy Hummer H2s. (What?, it's only a 6.0 Liter enjin.) This will tap the gas reserves and force his hand.
<< <i>Well, I am on a different side of this thread. I leave on March 6 to go over there.
Should we take Saddam out? Yes. He should not be left there to rule.
How does the world expect us to get him? Ask? No. We will have to go in there hard and fast as possible before he does anything stupid.
What am I going to expect to happen in Iraq? I expect Saddam to destroy his city by having us go in there to get him and fight our way to him. I expect him to destroy the oil fields and with massive environmental damage. I expect Saddam to cut off his food rations to his people so that they starve. I expect alot of Psychological Operation from Saddam to his own people so that they attack us. I highly expect a chemical/biological war on his part. What will this do ot the U.S.? The U.S. will be hard hit with the costs of humanitarian efforts to the Iraqi and surrounding people which would prevent more casualties of war due to disease, famine, ect.
So, in my opinion. We have to act now and fast before something else happens and that is a risk the U.S. Govt. and I will have to take. >>
I Thank you.
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
Saddam is a killer and seems to be power hungry, but that is the situation to be dealt with by his own countrymen, or until his chemicals or toxins are proven to be used in an act of terrorism on Americans (which has never happened yet).
Imagine our bombs dropping in on a family of Iraqis eating dinner. The bomb destroys the home, kills the father and maims the mother. A child loses both arms and eyesight. Another child skin is seared from the heat. Their bodies lay twisted amongst the rubble half of them dead the other half broken and bleeding and in agonizing pain. Till the END OF TIME that family will never be the same, Never to have their father back, brother or sister. Their relatives will have crushing anger and pain at losing family members.
War is not some abstraction, it is people who feel, hope and love just the same as we do. It is their lives who are ended and their family who copes with the devasting loss.
Yes, if pulling out all our troops and nuking the heck out of the country means "attack!"
mo <><
"Repent, for the kindom of heaven is at hand." ** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! ** Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY 28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST TEMECULA, CA 92590 (951) 757-0334
Of course the only problem is that our nation has some corny law on the books about not taking out leaders of foreign governments.
Actually, I don't think this a law. It is an executive order, and can be revoked or suspended as easily as it was made.
That being said, I doubt any sitting president would cavalierly play around with an executive order; it would set a very bad precedent.
BTW, as a liberal, my vote on the matter of going to war with Iraq to bring about a regime change is: YES. I am tired of having to explain myself. This is a fractious issue, and I am gratified that the citizenry of my adopted country would consider the matter of war and peace significant enough to express themselves. There is a time when war is appropriate, or at least the credible threat of it, and when it is the least of all other evils.
To want peace is great; to want it at any price is not a good thing. The new members of NATO know this, because they were victimized by Chamberlain's appeasement policy. It may be that the threat posed by Hussein to us is currently not great, but why not take action simply because it is the humanitarian thing to do? It is humanitarian to bring freedom to the Iraqi people; it is humanitarian -- sort of -- to bring stability to a region rife with conflict.
If the liberals don't want to go to war for the right reasons, then they should not be liberals because it is hypocritical to say you want peace only when it doesn't affect you.
Well, if I were living in Los Angeles, Seattle, or San Francisco instead of Memphis, I’d be in the streets demanding that George the Younger start focusing on the most serious and immediate danger to the US, North Korea’s nuclear capability and its missile(s) that can strike the West Coast. N. Korea is a 100% paranoid and crazy state that is, in my opinion, the most serious and immediate threat to the US.
George the Elder blew a magnificent US/UN military victory in Iraq ten years ago. He turned victory into defeat and is responsible for where we are today (along with Clinton who essentially did nothing as usual, and Ronald Regan who armed Iraq to the teeth in the first place during his “we’ll cozy up to anybody, even the worst monsters, if they are against Iran policy”).
So George the Younger seems more concerned with fixing is father’s greatest blunder than in dealing with the most immediate problems and threats facing the US, both domestically and internationally. I personally don’t believe one American life is worth losing over Saddam – why can’t he just be “taken out”.
And what about Asama Bin Laden – he was directly responsible for the loss of thousands of American lives – Bush seems to have forgotten about him in his ardor to get Saddam. Also, lets stop hearing these silly arguments about how bad Saddam is. Probably at least half the world’s leaders are dictators, many brutal murderers and torturers – China, in terms of numbers, is a shark compared to the Saddam sardine – but that seems to be OK, even though all the US appeasement in the world hasn’t made the Chinese keep the N. Koreans in check.
My opinion, Saddam is a little fish, not worth one American life. The N. Korean leaders are a bunch of crazies that we should really be worried about – listen up LA, SF, Portland, Seattle. And lets stop trying to fix George the Elder’s blunder in Iraq, at least not until something is done about the killer Bin Laden.
Let's set the PCGS US Coin Forum AT Police on Saddam - he'll give up, go crazy, or shoot himself within a month.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
EVP....great post. I never expected to see Neville in this thread.
SBelle, N.Korea is a serious threat to it's neighbors. The leadership there realize they are in a precarious spot. They have one or two nuclear weapons. Not enough firepower to defeat an enemy. Just enough to p.ss an enemy off, and assure their destruction. They fear our pre-emption, so they are threatening verbally. The real threat they represent is their ability to manufacture additional weapons in the near future and distribute them to rogue groups or currently non-nuclear nations. We will have to reckon with them soon enough. My guess is, right after the Iraqi action. It sure resembles the Cuban missile crisis to me. I hope it can be managed diplomatically. If not, many many lives will be lost.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Let's not forget, without the French, there would be no Colonist victories during the American revolution and no USA today.
TRUTH >>
Let's look at a brief history of French Warfare...
Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years of French history, France is conquered by, of all things, an Italian.
Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
The Dutch War - Tied.
War of the Augsburg League / King William's War / French and Indian War - Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Francophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The war also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome," and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."
French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!)due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany's first occasion to play the role of "drunk frat boy" to France's "ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night."
World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel song.
War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.
Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare: "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
Andy
We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
<< <i>I hate to inform you that the "black and white" world you wish to live it doesn't exsist. There are many things wrong with this county (TT named a few) so how does that give us the right to run around the world stating how morally superior we are? There are MILLIONS around the world that appearently disagree with us. I guess they are all "morally bankrupt". >>
There are many things wrong with this country but it is still the best dam country in the world! Why shouldn't we be able to state what is right and just. The truth is the truth and if other peoples of other nations don't have the courage to rise up and free themselves from a bunch of tin horn dictators, then to hell with them; unless they mess with us then really to hell with them. As for the French, they can kiss my a$$, the lilly livered chicken sh^ts. We pulled their a$$ out of 2 major jams and as far as I'm concerned, the UN can pack up shop out of NY and take up residence in Paris; letting the Frenchies pay the dues. We'll see how long the UN stays in business.
I was in downtown Cleveland Saturday and saw a large parade of the obnoxious protestors with their Bush is a Moron and Listen to the French posters. I was sickened to my stomach, my neck turned violently red, and I had to greatly restain myself from turning my SUV into their path. It made me ashamed to be an American.
Ditto ClausU , the UN should pack their bags and move to Paris, they understand each other. Too bad such a lovely country, but they'll never learn. I've long parted with anything French except French Kissing .
<< <i>or until his chemicals or toxins are proven to be used in an act of terrorism on Americans (which has never happened yet). >>
Are you willing to sit idly by and wait for this to happen? How many US citizens must die to make sure that we are SURE of this?
Andy
We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
Why do we need France on our side against Sadamm and Osama? So the French can show them how to surrender.
How many frenchman does it take to guard Paris? Nobody knows, its never been tried before.
What do you call 100,000 Frenchmen with their hands up? The Army.
Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney? Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.
Why do so many French men have moustashes? To remind them of their mothers.
Why did the French plant trees along the Champs Elysees? So the Germans could march in the shade.
dwood
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
<< <i>Why did the French plant trees along the Champs Elysees? So the Germans could march in the shade. >>
LMFAO!! That one's a classic!
Andy
We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
android. I wouldn't want to wait and see, but killing tens of thousands does not justify saving an American life on a "possibility".
Ironically, the nerve agent, radioactive material, or toxin used against us would probably come from a country that we ourselves have supplied.
Beyond the what if's and could be's there is a greater reaction that would be set in motion whether you believe it or not and that is the law of "as ye sow, so shall ye reap" May seem esoterical or religious, but it is neither. It is just what happens. Wait and see.
For the last few days, I've come home, turned on the Fox News Channel expecting to hear we have started the cruise missle attacks. I kind of chuckle at the media talking heads that wring their hands and try to convince the public we will be drawn into a street battle in Baghdad. We will lose hundred and thousands of solders. Get real! When the missles fly, the tanks roll and bombs fall, those solders will lay down their weapons and head for the free food! When our forces converge on Baghdad, there will be absolutely NO reason for us to go in. We will have secured the oil fields, we will have secured his airfields, all his forces outside of Baghdad will have surrendered and all we have to do is lay seige to the city. One of his advisors or one of his generals will finish the job with a 9mm root canal.
I just hope President Bush has conviction enough to tell the French they will play absolutely NO role in Iraq. They can use those oil contracts as toilet paper! Or, do they even use that stuff?
Buy Halliburton, sell SLB (Schlumberger) !!!! No oil service contracts for the Frogs!
<< <i>Another child's skin is seared from the heat. Their bodies lay twisted amongst the rubble half of them dead the other half broken and bleeding and in agonizing pain. >>
The quote makes an excellent point. I have nothing but the greatest respect for the brave men and women in our Armed Forces who risk their lives to defend our sacred country. I have nothing but disgust for the "chicken hawks" and couch potato cowards who are willing to have others kill and maim for their own little real-life war game. Clinton was one of those cowards, Bush the Younger got out of any danger during Vietnam through his family's influence and got a cushy domestic National Guard desk job. McCain, Kerry, (yes, George McGovern who flew 35 bomber missions during WWII when the averge bomber crew's life expectency was 17 missions - yet remained silent about being a war hero during a presidential campaign while chicken hawk file-clerk Nixon shouted war, war!), these people will talk about the pain and suffering of war, and will think twice before starting wars that will kill innocents. But the chicken hawk cowards who want others to kill for them and die for their amusement, they disgust me, they are the great hypocrites. Each chicken hawk should go to Iraq and be ordered to kill a child with a knife - its no different than dropping a bomb on them - let these jingoistic cowards prove their courage, let them draw some real blood! The honorable man will avoid war until there is no choice, the coward will scream for war, as long as they only have to observe and shout.
So, honor our brave men and women in uniform, they are doing their job, they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Shun the chicken hawk cowards - they are lower than the roach and less than the least of men, yet they will shout the loudest, they will gladly sacrifice others for their own entertainment.
<< <i>DCAM, you're starting to scare me. Fox news? Frogs?
Have you by any chance been "Hannitized?" Maybe you're not so bad after all. >>
DanC- You've never read anything from me on this Forum to the contrary. My the way it is Bill O'Reilly. I watch Hannity & Colmes, yet they sometimes sound like my grandmother's henhouse! Very few on that show will show any consideration for the other panelists. Always interrupting one another and speaking over one of the other guests. Very bothersome.
Well - you've said several things lately I agreed with as astonishing as that may seem.
One thing I've never been able to figure out is what keeps Hannity from strangling "Eyebrow-boy" every time he tries to pull that Spock-like facial expression whilst trying to convince everyone he's such an intellectual.
I suppose so long as we both agree not to bury the hatchet in each other's heads - perhaps there's common ground out there somewhere.
Comments
If you have read correctly, my posts never laid blame on anyone. However, your post was interesting, very opinionated and missed the whole target of the argument.
TRUTH
Here is my response to teller's position the the US is like Nazi Germany.
TT said, "A country that is morally superior to others"
Germany considered itself racially superior first and foremost. For them everything flowed from this presupposition. If you people can’t see that America IS morally superior to Saddam’s Iraq then you aren’t paying attention and are probably morally bankrupt yourself. There is right and wrong, there is good and evil, and there are those that are morally superior to others. That is fact of life whether you acknowledge it or not.
TT said, "A country that is THE major military might in the world"
I will cede this
TT said, "A country that imposes it's will on others"
All countries seek to impose their will and to support their national interest. It is called foreign policy. You must really hate Communists right? Oh I forgot communist revolution is liberation isn’t it comrade.
TT said, "A country that frenzies it's citizens into national pride"
Get real. You can’t compare people flying the American flag on their house or car with Hitler youth marches or massive candlelight gatherings. Not even a close comparison. BTW, I don’t remember reading or hearing about any significant protest marches occurring in Nazi Germany, do you?
TT said, "A country that sees foreigners and thier opinions as foolish"
This happens all the time and all over the world. This is not some behavior specific to Nazi Germany or the US or Europe. But in keeping with your position then you must also believe that Germany and France are also similar to Nazi Germany since they see us as foolish. Oh wait, that’s right, this argument only counts when used against the USA alone.
TT said, "A country whose leadership does not reflect the will of the people"
Please provide quantitative and qualitative data to support this argument. I believe it false prima facia. Remember this, while a million people may have protested in the streets on Saturday, 279 million stayed home.
TT said, "A country that terrorizes it's citizenship with imminent attack"
Well I can’t speak for those that exist outside the bubble that is my life but I haven’t run into too many Americans that have been ‘terrorized’ as you put it. This is a non-argument. Again, it is false prima facia. Per the Boy Scouts of America, "Be prepared".
TT said, "A country who will attack without provocation"
You mean like the Soviet Union or FARC narco-terrorists right? There is a war on terror going on in case you'veev been asleep for a couple of years. In the case of Iraq, they have breached the CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT. Saddam cannot be allowed to transfer chemical or biological weapons to terrorist groups. If you cannot grasp this concept then you simply refuse to. Nothing I could say would change your mind.
I could make the comparison that a thrown rock is like a star. They both are hurtling through space, they are both spherical, and they both contain energy. But of course that comparison is weak just like yours. The thing is not how Nazi Germany and the US are similar but rather how they are different. That is what is important.
edited to bold that last bit.
FrattLaw,
Do you even realize there are oil barricks in people's backyards here in Los Angeles? Why is using a few acres in the frozen tundra of Alaska worse then paying Terrorists with money that will come back to us in the way of Anthrax, Nerve Gas and/or missiles?
And please don't give me that garbage about it would take 8 years to benefit from drilling in ANWR. If we had started 8 or 9 years ago we would see the benefits NOW.
Or, I guess some people such as yourself would rather pay money to the Mid East Terrorists, huh?
JJacks
If you are fearful of the federal budget deficit, then I pity you. You have no solace in Democrats, Socialists, or Communists. Right-wing Republicans are your only glimmer of hope, but even they don't call enough shots in Washington to affect the tax-and-spend nature of the "normal" politicians. And somehow, I don't picture you as a Right-winger.
You would never be happy in Canada or any western European nation. Mexico and Brazil are out, too. I think you are stuck being frightened for the rest of your life!
So please, don't align me with the terrorists.
Michael
Michael,
I'm glad to hear that, but your comment:
GWB and his oil barrons have been pushing for increased drilling rights, they may now get them.
Sure makes it sound like you are against drilling in Alaska, doesn't it? Personally, I would love to reduce our reliance on MidEast oil, but we need all sides in the U.S. (dems and Repubs) to come to some agreements to do so. Maybe the Dems could find it in their hearts to allow oil drilling in Alaska for more environmental protections, elsewhere? Or, could it be they really don't want to U.S. to be able to reduce our reliance on Mid East oil?
JJacks
Get real. You can’t compare people flying the American flag on their house or car with Hitler youth marches or massive candlelight gatherings. Not even a close comparison. BTW, I don’t remember reading or hearing about any significant protest marches occurring in Nazi Germany, do you
Actually, you are again incorrect. During post WWI, there was a serious depression in remaining Germany. With major portions of the nation ceded away, Prussia, Alsace, Arden, etc. The country was in the thoes of a major shame. In addition, the opposing allies forced major hardship on the country(just like Iraq and the sanctions) forcing the new government to pay for all war destruction, giving a breeding ground for nationalistic tendencies. The democratic elections in 1932 gave the NAZI party a foothold, where they had not been taken seriously in the past. In a matter of months, the German nation had now rallied behind a leader, who made the shame go away, and made the people find scapegoats for their problems(sounds very familiar), the rest is history. Of course there were rallies against the NAZI party early on, but by 1934, the die was cast, and the pollical leadership had quashed all opposition. The start was minor, the results were major.
**************
TT said, "A country whose leadership does not reflect the will of the people"
Please provide quantitative and qualitative data to support this argument. I believe it false prima facia. Remember this, while a million people may have protested in the streets on Saturday, 279 million stayed home.
The lastest news polls put 'no war without UN' at close to 60%
*****************
Other responses are weak or just emotional.
TRUTH
A sign at a business establishment in Philadelphia, PA:
"WE WOULD RATHER DO BUSINESS WITH 1000 AL QAEDA TERRORISTS THAN WITH A SINGLE AMERICAN"
This sign was prominently displayed in the window of a business in Philadelphia.
You are probably outraged at the thought of such an inflammatory statement. One would think that anti-hate groups from all across the country would be marching on this business... And that the National Guard might have to be called to keep the angry crowds back.
But, perhaps in these stressful times one might be tempted to let the proprietors simply make their statement . . . We are a society who holds Freedom of Speech as perhaps our greatest liberty . . . And after all, it is just a sign.. You may ask what kind of business would dare post such a sign?
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
And who said morticians couldn't have a litte fun!!!
I love how you avoid the actual argument (Re: Stalin). You did not asnwer my question. If a friend of yours from the past committed a crime today would be responsible in any way?
They are no advisers in Venezuela. Do you just make this stuff up as you go along or what.
You need to read something besides Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn.
Are you staunchly communist or am I misunderstanding?
Look, you won't change my mind and I doubt I could change yours so what is the point. I merely wanted to respond to your Nazi comparison. Good day.
edited to add: BTW, that's a nice move discarding my comments by simply saying 'weak or emotional'.
The foreigners hate our money, how we stole it from the smaller countries, native americans, minorities.
The foreigners hate our family unity, at more than 50% divorce rate and highest teen mother, single mother rate of any western country.
The foregners hate our industry, how we send off jobs to China and cut our local labor employment by hiring undocumented workers.
The foreigners hate our religion, how we try to impose 'Christianity' on Moslems, Jews, Hindus, Arabs.
The foreigners hate our intellengence, how the US has one of the highest illiteracy rate of any western country.
The foreigners hate our military might, how this country can do what it wants without the rest of the world agreement. To heck with the UN, we're gonna kill.
I would love to hear the good virtues of America, but this leadership is killing them.
TRUTH
Bsqr,
Come on, I expected better. Painting the opposition a communist? Macarthism? Reaching for straws? Arguments stand on merits.
TRUTH
TT,
I don't want to keep commenting on this topic, but I think that your last post is one of the worst, most sickening posts I have ever read on these boards.
First off all, most if not all of what ever you stated there was going on before Bush ever became president (I know the liberals would like to blame Bush for killing native americans back in the 1600s however), yet you mock him as a terrible leader.
Second, whether foreigners hate our religion, our industry, our military, etc. is not important here. I may hate certain things about the French government, but I don't hijack their planes and go crashing them into their buildings. I don't get together with others who hate the French government to stockpile Anthrax and Nerve Gas, etc. I don't march on streets buring French flags. I understand that people are different, and not all French agree with their government, and the Middle East people should understand that not all Americans agree with the American Government. As hard as it may be for you to understand, no matter how badly some people may hate our government is absolutely 0% justification for killing innocent people in the U.S.
JJacks
I'm glad I sicken you, it means you have understood a different point of view other than your own. As I understand it, the Iraqi's haven't killed any Americans, so why kill them? Simple question, which you cannot answer. By attacking me, it shows you are emotional on the subject. Maybe some emotion will make you think.
TRUTH
If anyone has painted it is you, I didn't paint anything, so again you obfuscate. I asked a question that is all. Are you going to answer it or not?
Sounds like the you got a lot of HATE for America in you. How sad. I really do feel sorry for you. Living in a land you hate so much.
I'm emotional am I? Yeah, I guess it would upset me to see thousands of Americans killed. Maybe that wouldn't upset some people here. I guess some things are just worth fighting for.
So I guess what you are saying is wait until Iraq comes after us, and maybe kills thousands (or more) and then go take them out, huh? You know, if a guy walks into a bank with a loaded gun and starts shooting, but hasn't actually hit anyone yet, does the guard have to wait until some one is dead to start acting? If the police have a verifed tip that a group plans to bomb a building, do they have to wait for the deaths to pile up to do anything. I think you get my point.
It is 100% certain in my mind that given the right opprotunity Hussain would gladly kill as many Americans as he could. Maybe you don't agree. I can only hope you are right I guess, but I don't want to bet on it.
JJacks
TRUTH
It will be far less costly on the people of Iraq if we go in and take him out than if he was left free to destroy his own country. I do not want to HAVE to go in there because he did something else or helped it happen.
We have the technology to go in there and do what we have to with far less collateral damage than has ever happened in a war in the history of the world. Yws there will be losses both ours and thiers. That is the cost of war. In the end we will prevail and he will be dead or in a prision.
After we have taken care of him, others will follow. We will take care of them even swifter. Eventually there will be less and less like him to deal with. At that time is when people will begin to realize that we have done the right thing. Untill then we will be blamed for all that goes wrong. We must persever. We must not lose focus on our goals. We will win the war over tyrany.
DANIEL SOUKUP
USAF RETIRED
My first tassa slap 3/3/04
My shiny cents
Let's not forget, without the French, there would be no Colonist victories during the American revolution and no USA today. In addition, the French helped the US with the War of 1812, whereby this young nation was almost defeated and Washington DC burned. Let's not think that the French just 'owe' us, but we 'owe' them.
TRUTH
<< <i>As hard as it may be for you to understand, no matter how badly some people may hate our government is absolutely 0% justification for killing innocent people in the U.S. >>
Exactly. Now...what did that have to do with Iraq?
BTW, there was a great many innocent people killed in Afganastan last fall. Was there justification for that?
<< <i>Germany considered itself racially superior first and foremost. For them everything flowed from this presupposition. If you people can’t see that America IS morally superior to Saddam’s Iraq then you aren’t paying attention and are probably morally bankrupt yourself. >>
I hate to inform you that the "black and white" world you wish to live it doesn't exsist. There are many things wrong with this county (TT named a few) so how does that give us the right to run around the world stating how morally superior we are? There are MILLIONS around the world that appearently disagree with us. I guess they are all "morally bankrupt".
jom
<< <i>The mad man? Are you speaking about GWBush? If so then I agree. We should not do it without U.N. backing. I don't like the way GW is acting, it seems so Un- American. We aren't suppose to be bullies! He needs to turn his attention to the Economy!!!!! >>
No i ment the mad man that is killing his own people GW is not killing his own people now is he?
Saddam is a madman and needs a bullett in HIS HEAD AND THATS MY FINAL ANSWER.
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
The main reason all of this started is oil in any case. The gas over here in California is up to $1.85 per gallon for the cheapest grade. I think we should all go out and buy Hummer H2s. (What?, it's only a 6.0 Liter enjin.) This will tap the gas reserves and force his hand.
<< <i>Well, I am on a different side of this thread. I leave on March 6 to go over there.
Should we take Saddam out? Yes. He should not be left there to rule.
How does the world expect us to get him? Ask? No. We will have to go in there hard and fast as possible before he does anything stupid.
What am I going to expect to happen in Iraq? I expect Saddam to destroy his city by having us go in there to get him and fight our way to him. I expect him to destroy the oil fields and with massive environmental damage. I expect Saddam to cut off his food rations to his people so that they starve. I expect alot of Psychological Operation from Saddam to his own people so that they attack us. I highly expect a chemical/biological war on his part. What will this do ot the U.S.? The U.S. will be hard hit with the costs of humanitarian efforts to the Iraqi and surrounding people which would prevent more casualties of war due to disease, famine, ect.
So, in my opinion. We have to act now and fast before something else happens and that is a risk the U.S. Govt. and I will have to take. >>
I Thank you.
"The silver is mine and the gold is mine,' declares the LORD GOD Almighty."
Imagine our bombs dropping in on a family of Iraqis eating dinner. The bomb destroys the home, kills the father and maims the mother. A child loses both arms and eyesight. Another child skin is seared from the heat. Their bodies lay twisted amongst the rubble half of them dead the other half broken and bleeding and in agonizing pain. Till the END OF TIME that family will never be the same, Never to have their father back, brother or sister. Their relatives will have crushing anger and pain at losing family members.
War is not some abstraction, it is people who feel, hope and love just the same as we do. It is their lives who are ended and their family who copes with the devasting loss.
Tyler
mo <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
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Actually, I don't think this a law. It is an executive order, and can be revoked or suspended as easily as it was made.
That being said, I doubt any sitting president would cavalierly play around with an executive order; it would set a very bad precedent.
BTW, as a liberal, my vote on the matter of going to war with Iraq to bring about a regime change is: YES. I am tired of having to explain myself. This is a fractious issue, and I am gratified that the citizenry of my adopted country would consider the matter of war and peace significant enough to express themselves. There is a time when war is appropriate, or at least the credible threat of it, and when it is the least of all other evils.
To want peace is great; to want it at any price is not a good thing. The new members of NATO know this, because they were victimized by Chamberlain's appeasement policy. It may be that the threat posed by Hussein to us is currently not great, but why not take action simply because it is the humanitarian thing to do? It is humanitarian to bring freedom to the Iraqi people; it is humanitarian -- sort of -- to bring stability to a region rife with conflict.
If the liberals don't want to go to war for the right reasons, then they should not be liberals because it is hypocritical to say you want peace only when it doesn't affect you.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
George the Elder blew a magnificent US/UN military victory in Iraq ten years ago. He turned victory into defeat and is responsible for where we are today (along with Clinton who essentially did nothing as usual, and Ronald Regan who armed Iraq to the teeth in the first place during his “we’ll cozy up to anybody, even the worst monsters, if they are against Iran policy”).
So George the Younger seems more concerned with fixing is father’s greatest blunder than in dealing with the most immediate problems and threats facing the US, both domestically and internationally. I personally don’t believe one American life is worth losing over Saddam – why can’t he just be “taken out”.
And what about Asama Bin Laden – he was directly responsible for the loss of thousands of American lives – Bush seems to have forgotten about him in his ardor to get Saddam. Also, lets stop hearing these silly arguments about how bad Saddam is. Probably at least half the world’s leaders are dictators, many brutal murderers and torturers – China, in terms of numbers, is a shark compared to the Saddam sardine – but that seems to be OK, even though all the US appeasement in the world hasn’t made the Chinese keep the N. Koreans in check.
My opinion, Saddam is a little fish, not worth one American life. The N. Korean leaders are a bunch of crazies that we should really be worried about – listen up LA, SF, Portland, Seattle. And lets stop trying to fix George the Elder’s blunder in Iraq, at least not until something is done about the killer Bin Laden.
Let's set the PCGS US Coin Forum AT Police on Saddam - he'll give up, go crazy, or shoot himself within a month.
SBelle, N.Korea is a serious threat to it's neighbors. The leadership there realize they are in a precarious spot. They have one or two nuclear weapons. Not enough firepower to defeat an enemy. Just enough to p.ss an enemy off, and assure their destruction. They fear our pre-emption, so they are threatening verbally. The real threat they represent is their ability to manufacture additional weapons in the near future and distribute them to rogue groups or currently non-nuclear nations. We will have to reckon with them soon enough. My guess is, right after the Iraqi action. It sure resembles the Cuban missile crisis to me. I hope it can be managed diplomatically. If not, many many lives will be lost.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>Let's not forget, without the French, there would be no Colonist victories during the American revolution and no USA today.
TRUTH >>
Let's look at a brief history of French Warfare...
Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years of French history, France is conquered by, of all things, an Italian.
Hundred Years War - Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare: "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchman."
Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes the first and only country to ever lose two wars when fighting Italians.
Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots
Thirty Years War - France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.
War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
The Dutch War - Tied.
War of the Augsburg League / King William's War / French and Indian War -
Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties in a row induces deluded Francophiles the world over to label the period as the height of French military power.
War of the Spanish Succession - Lost. The war also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved every since.
American Revolution - In a move that will become quite familiar to future Americans, France claims a win even though the English colonists saw far more action. This is later known as "de Gaulle Syndrome," and leads to the Second Rule of French Warfare: "France only wins when America does most of
the fighting."
French Revolution - Won, primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.
The Napoleonic Wars - Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!)due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.
The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. Germany's first occasion to play the role of "drunk frat boy" to France's "ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night."
World War I - Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like to not only sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.
World War II - Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel song.
War in Indochina - Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with the Dien Bien Flu.
Algerian Rebellion - Lost. Loss marks the first defeat of a Western army by a Non-Turkic Muslim force since the Crusades, and produces the First Rule of Muslim Warfare: "We can always beat the French." This rule is identical to the First Rules of the Italians, Russians, Germans, English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese and Esquimaux.
War on Terrorism - France, keeping in mind its recent history, surrenders to Germans and Muslims just to be safe. Attempts to surrender to Vietnamese ambassador fail after he takes refuge in a McDonald's.
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
<< <i>I hate to inform you that the "black and white" world you wish to live it doesn't exsist. There are many things wrong with this county (TT named a few) so how does that give us the right to run around the world stating how morally superior we are? There are MILLIONS around the world that appearently disagree with us. I guess they are all "morally bankrupt". >>
There are many things wrong with this country but it is still the best dam country in the world! Why shouldn't we be able to state what is right and just. The truth is the truth and if other peoples of other nations don't have the courage to rise up and free themselves from a bunch of tin horn dictators, then to hell with them; unless they mess with us then really to hell with them. As for the French, they can kiss my a$$, the lilly livered chicken sh^ts. We pulled their a$$ out of 2 major jams and as far as I'm concerned, the UN can pack up shop out of NY and take up residence in Paris; letting the Frenchies pay the dues. We'll see how long the UN stays in business.
We should attack Iraq yesterday!
Ditto ClausU , the UN should pack their bags and move to Paris, they understand each other. Too bad such a lovely country, but they'll never learn. I've long parted with anything French except French Kissing
Marc
<< <i>or until his chemicals or toxins are proven to be used in an act of terrorism on Americans (which has never happened yet). >>
Are you willing to sit idly by and wait for this to happen? How many US citizens must die to make sure that we are SURE of this?
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
GREAT post! I'm still rolling!
A few French jokes found elsewhere:
How many Frenchmen died in WWII?
Not enough.
Why do we need France on our side against Sadamm and Osama?
So the French can show them how to surrender.
How many frenchman does it take to guard Paris?
Nobody knows, its never been tried before.
What do you call 100,000 Frenchmen with their hands up?
The Army.
Why don't they have fireworks at Euro Disney?
Because every time they shoot them off, the French try to surrender.
Why do so many French men have moustashes?
To remind them of their mothers.
Why did the French plant trees along the Champs Elysees?
So the Germans could march in the shade.
"France said this week they need more evidence to convince them Saddam is a threat. Yeah, last time France asked for more evidence it came rollin thru Paris with a German Flag on it." -Dave Letterman
<< <i>Why did the French plant trees along the Champs Elysees?
So the Germans could march in the shade. >>
LMFAO!! That one's a classic!
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
Ironically, the nerve agent, radioactive material, or toxin used against us would probably come from a country that we ourselves have supplied.
Beyond the what if's and could be's there is a greater reaction that would be set in motion whether you believe it or not and that is the law of "as ye sow, so shall ye reap" May seem esoterical or religious, but it is neither. It is just what happens. Wait and see.
Tyler
I just hope President Bush has conviction enough to tell the French they will play absolutely NO role in Iraq. They can use those oil contracts as toilet paper! Or, do they even use that stuff?
Buy Halliburton, sell SLB (Schlumberger) !!!! No oil service contracts for the Frogs!
Have you by any chance been "Hannitized?"
Maybe you're not so bad after all.
<< <i>Another child's skin is seared from the heat. Their bodies lay twisted amongst the rubble half of them dead the other half broken and bleeding and in agonizing pain. >>
The quote makes an excellent point. I have nothing but the greatest respect for the brave men and women in our Armed Forces who risk their lives to defend our sacred country. I have nothing but disgust for the "chicken hawks" and couch potato cowards who are willing to have others kill and maim for their own little real-life war game. Clinton was one of those cowards, Bush the Younger got out of any danger during Vietnam through his family's influence and got a cushy domestic National Guard desk job. McCain, Kerry, (yes, George McGovern who flew 35 bomber missions during WWII when the averge bomber crew's life expectency was 17 missions - yet remained silent about being a war hero during a presidential campaign while chicken hawk file-clerk Nixon shouted war, war!), these people will talk about the pain and suffering of war, and will think twice before starting wars that will kill innocents. But the chicken hawk cowards who want others to kill for them and die for their amusement, they disgust me, they are the great hypocrites. Each chicken hawk should go to Iraq and be ordered to kill a child with a knife - its no different than dropping a bomb on them - let these jingoistic cowards prove their courage, let them draw some real blood! The honorable man will avoid war until there is no choice, the coward will scream for war, as long as they only have to observe and shout.
So, honor our brave men and women in uniform, they are doing their job, they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice. Shun the chicken hawk cowards - they are lower than the roach and less than the least of men, yet they will shout the loudest, they will gladly sacrifice others for their own entertainment.
<< <i>DCAM, you're starting to scare me. Fox news? Frogs?
Have you by any chance been "Hannitized?"
Maybe you're not so bad after all.
DanC- You've never read anything from me on this Forum to the contrary. My the way it is Bill O'Reilly. I watch Hannity & Colmes, yet they sometimes sound like my grandmother's henhouse! Very few on that show will show any consideration for the other panelists. Always interrupting one another and speaking over one of the other guests. Very bothersome.
You're not so bad either.
One thing I've never been able to figure out is what keeps Hannity from strangling "Eyebrow-boy" every time he tries to pull that Spock-like facial expression whilst trying to convince everyone he's such an intellectual.
I suppose so long as we both agree not to bury the hatchet in each other's heads - perhaps there's common ground out there somewhere.
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Besides... I DO agree with his comments.
I suppose we could flame each other if it'd make you more comfortable... heheheh...
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter