A LETTER FROM BOWERS ABOUT TERMINATION
tgilliams
Posts: 1,969
Dave Bowers writes: "I am writing to state that I am
overwhelmed and amazed by the calls and e-mails I have
received regarding the sudden termination of my employment
by the new CEO (Michael Haynes) of Collectors Universe,
who arrived on the job on January 1. I have had offers of
money, assistance, help with moving, loans of books, and even
lodging—you name it! I never expected to have such an
outpouring from many of the largest “names” in numismatics,
including quite a few competitors! Indeed, my e-mail file from
well-wishers could well form a nucleus for a book, “Who’s
Who in American Numismatics.” All of this is inspiring and
wonderful to me, and I am extremely grateful. Please pass
my appreciation along to the many NBS members who have
been a part.
As mentioned in my earlier note to you, my research and
writing should be okay in the future — except that my library
of thousands of items is packed in two hastily rented premises,
and it will be some time until I can sort everything out and
determine my legal options. All of this happened unexpectedly
and, as you might expect, has caused many sleepless nights.
Ditto for my other top staffers, Christine Karstedt and John
Babalis.
My spirit and my enthusiasm for numismatics and the people
in it are as bright as ever. I do not yet have a business identity
or telephone, but my contact information is:
Q. David Bowers
P.O. Box 539
Wolfeboro Falls, NH 03896-0539
e-mail: qdbarchive@metrocast.net
--
overwhelmed and amazed by the calls and e-mails I have
received regarding the sudden termination of my employment
by the new CEO (Michael Haynes) of Collectors Universe,
who arrived on the job on January 1. I have had offers of
money, assistance, help with moving, loans of books, and even
lodging—you name it! I never expected to have such an
outpouring from many of the largest “names” in numismatics,
including quite a few competitors! Indeed, my e-mail file from
well-wishers could well form a nucleus for a book, “Who’s
Who in American Numismatics.” All of this is inspiring and
wonderful to me, and I am extremely grateful. Please pass
my appreciation along to the many NBS members who have
been a part.
As mentioned in my earlier note to you, my research and
writing should be okay in the future — except that my library
of thousands of items is packed in two hastily rented premises,
and it will be some time until I can sort everything out and
determine my legal options. All of this happened unexpectedly
and, as you might expect, has caused many sleepless nights.
Ditto for my other top staffers, Christine Karstedt and John
Babalis.
My spirit and my enthusiasm for numismatics and the people
in it are as bright as ever. I do not yet have a business identity
or telephone, but my contact information is:
Q. David Bowers
P.O. Box 539
Wolfeboro Falls, NH 03896-0539
e-mail: qdbarchive@metrocast.net
--
PCGS sets under The Thomas Collections. Modern Commemoratives @ NGC under "One Coin at a Time". USMC Active 1966 thru 1970" The real War.
0
Comments
For some life lasts a short while, but the memories it holds last forever.
-Laura Swenson
In memory of BL, SM, and KG. 16 and forever young, rest in peace.
Cheers,
Bob
i don't think anybody is really fawning over QDB. just offering support to the recipient of what appears on the surface as a sudden and senseless corporate decision. i tend toward cynicysm myself, but having been caught with no safety net in a layoff i relate to what's transpired at CU.
Mr. Bowers has obviously influenced our hobby. if you're a part of that, he's affected you whether you're
aware of it or not. i feel certain his contributions to numismatics are securely entrenched for generations and he'll surface again somewhere soon. to that end, i wish him and his well.
al h.
I am totally aware of the impact QDB has had on the hobby. I also think that this may play out in a legal battle. QDB was the one who influenced my decision to get into collecting years ago. However, you get to the point in this and any other industry where it becomes a battle of the titans. I do, however, feel a modicum of compassion for him, and ANYONE, who is suddenly and unjustifiably terminated from their job. But, at the risk of getting totally flamed here, I really don't think QDB is hurtin' for dough...at least I don't think I'll be seeing him banging his tin cup outside of Quincy Market anytime soon
Maybe I'm wrong, or just out of step, but I detest looking at this as an industry. And I can't help but hold in even the tiniest bit of contempt those who were influential in that move. Coins should simply be a hobby. Coin supplies and literature are the industry. Or am I just waxing nostalgic?
Cheers,
Bob
i don't think so. i was going to comment on that point from you first post because i have a bit of difficulty with that phrase, also. i'm glad to know you were being facetious!!!! i think the hobby has just gotten to the point where it generates so much cash flow that someone coined the phrase and it stuck. as you said, an industry would be supplies or the actual minting process and all involved with that, because the word relates to manufacturing. maybe some collectors really think they are "making" a coin when they get it in a holder. i sure hope they don't, but.........
al h.
outhaul - as far as the "industry" goes, i saw it happen with baseball cards years ago. in about 1984 no one gave 2 craps about baseball cards - except for little kids who loved baseball. they were cheap and fun to collect. 2 years later the companies realized that if they controlled the supply of cards they could create an artificial shortage of their product. dealers realized the huge profit potential. baseball cards were no longer traded by little kids but by speculators buying 1,000 sets a time and never opening the boxes (so not to hurt the value). now there's 100 different companies making 100 different subsets each and the price of a pack of cards has gone from 25¢ in my day to $5.
so now, baseball cards are "collected" by people who likely know nothing about baseball and most likely have never even looked at the cards they have, holding them only for future financial gain. it is officially an "industry" now.
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BTW, there is WAY to much fawning over certain individuals in this forum.
Thanks for weighing in! I know exactly what you mean about baseall cards. Leave it to the adults to totally screw up a nice productive hobby for kids. They did the same with Beanies.
Kaleidoscopic: I know it probably cuts a few people to the quick, but hey...that's the way it goes. Sorta like when I found out my favorite baseball hero (Mickey Manlte) was a fall-down drunk. Boy did that hurt...but it was reality.
Cheers,
Bob
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now a bunch of b*stardized sublets of the same new companies putting out cards. Chase cards are problems also.
edited for spelling
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
the thing about baseball cards is that it's no longer "collecting", it's "scratch and win" - the perfect hobby for the instant profit ADD modern collector.
no longer is it about putting together an entire set. now it's about opening a pack and getting the "gold-foil-leaf autographed game-worn-jockstrap card with super hologram photo" and flip it for an instant $100 profit. toss the rest of the cards in the trash.
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Meanwhile, continue to rip on successful people you probably know nothing of personally. Sure it hasn't really ever worked for anyone yet, but perhaps you'll prove the exception to the rule and somehow feel better about yourself because of it. Not to mention the great karma you're building up; so by all means - continue.
Read the posts on this forum and you will see that to many this former hobby is about trying to make bucks. When we are not flaming each other we are talking about upgrading, sniping, and out foxing someone else.
It is unfair to blame the entrepreneurs for giving you (we?) what we want. If you are serious about keeping this a hobby and "collecting the coin not the slab" stop all this cracking and resubmitting stuff buy a few more books and enjoy your collection.
Bye the way,
As far as I can tell DH is not doing so well recently in his industry. He has fiduciary responsibilities to his stockholders. He must make business decisions. Based on the past track record they may not always be perfect.
Somehow , I wish both he and Dave Bowers luck.
who's bashing anybody? successful? please.
the ones who support and further the hobby are those who would collect the common coins, put together sets, enjoy the history with their kids, and pass the hobby to them - those are the "heroes" who will never get recognition here. i don't see that the multimillionaire rare coin brokers are doing a service to the hobby.
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Don't get me wrong, I always have compassion for people who lose etheir jobs. But, there probably were 50,000 people last month who also were let go, and I venture to say that QDB will be able to hold up better than most -- perhaps better than all.
So, don't feel too sad for David -- hold your grief for those who fired him. He'll be around long after they are fortgotten for anything of significance except for firing him.
Cheers,
Bob
i agree gemtone. the poor guy who lost his job making 1/1000th of what QDB made - who's sending him money for lodging?
equate this to the shuttle disaster. flags at half-mast, the prez making speeches, moments of silence, flowery remembrances. that's all fine, but no one acknowledges the guy who died in a factory building steel for the shuttle - working the unglamorous, low-paid job.
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Cheers,
Bob
As an employer, though, I can understand that sometimes hard decisions have to be made. Getting rid of someone that is high profile, but not doing his job is something that just has to be done sometime, and the boss has to do it.
This is not to say that Dave wasn't doing his job. I have no way of knowing.
CU must have thought that though or why else dump him?
I really doubt we'll ever find out the why of his termination, though.
Ray
Hi,
Thank you for the kind words.
If you wish to donate money to my legal fund or just because you love me you can at the address below.
Q. David Bowers
P.O. Box 539
Wolfeboro Falls, NH 03896-0539
e-mail: qdbarchive@metrocast.net
Seriously there is a post in the q&a section here.
but back to Mr. Bowers-----is he really sending out these e-mails or are you guys busting our collective chops???
al h.
Whether Bowers was or was not earning his keep or will miss his salary from B&M is not the point. Someone of his stature in the world we all collect in deserved better treatment. There are ways to keep individuals associated with a firm short of terminating them.
but when the sob stories come about about a mutli-millionaire receiving money for his lodging and legal expenses, it's hard for average joe citizen to shed a tear for the guy.
i wish him the best of luck, regardless.
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With our hobby currently facing credibility challanges from the CoinDocs and RentASlab third party grading services, I think it harms us all when one of the beacons of our hobby is chucked out this shabbily. Regardless of how ruthless or difficult he may be as an individual or dealer (and I have no knowledge one way or another) his lifetime contributions have improved our hobby a great deal. I wonder how many of the rest of us will be able to say the same thing at the end of our careers?
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
QDB has indeed been treated shabbily. However, numismatics at their level is an industry and big business. This is the real world...Who has the signature line, "It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear." I think that would be appropriate in this case.
Cheers,
Bob
You are out to lunch. Your insults are disgusting, and it is obvious you are an idiot who is new to the coin business. You should go
back to collecting cards.
Rusty
Do you think they would really let go someone who is such a great asset to the Company? Unless a top executive is adding to the bottom line, there generally is no reason to have them around. Pretty presumptuous to say that he unjustifyably lost his job. I dont know the reason why he was let go, but I am sure there was a good one!
Cheers,
WWQ
I also believe that Mr Bowers as great as he may be just didn't provide enough to this company to support his salary! That's why IMO he is no longer an employee!
Don't Cry for him because he is smart enough to move on to bigger and better things just like CU will move on to bigger and better things!
So origionalbests you can keep sucking up to the Wigs if you like but once againg IMO it's falling on deaf ears.
There I said it
Chris
i'm not putting anyone down, but there's a sentiment that it takes a superior human being to buy an expensive coin. i disagree, it takes a rich one.
the poor man with no coins can be just as well studied and knowledgable as the man with $50 mil in rare coins. coin collecting is rather an elitist club.
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<< <i>people can give their money to whomever they want. who cares?
but when the sob stories come about about a mutli-millionaire receiving money for his lodging and legal expenses, it's hard for average joe citizen to shed a tear for the guy.
i wish him the best of luck, regardless. >>
Thought you was talking about Clinton for a minute there!
<< <i>Do you think they would really let go someone who is such a great asset to the Company? Unless a top executive is adding to the bottom line, there generally is no reason to have them around. Pretty presumptuous to say that he unjustifyably lost his job. I dont know the reason why he was let go, but I am sure there was a good one! >>
You are absolutely correct. There may well indeed be a good reason for terminating QDB's employment. We may find out, we may not. Bottom line is everything at their level. I just won't be holding my breath for the answer...I'm just going to keep putting my set together.
Cheers,
Bob
and women. There are many possible reasons for the firing which could be justi-
fiable and I have little doubt that QDB and company's actions were equally justifiable.
Even if there were a great deal of animosity precipitated by these changes it would
not necessarily follow that either party was in error.
Mr Bowers has published articles recently which could be considered highly critical of
the grading companies, the registries, the grading system employed, and the custo-
mers of the grading companies. This is not to say he may have been fired for what
he believes and writes, merely that peoples actions are based on what they believe
and that the fit between QDB and CU apparently disintegrated.
You don't have to feel that QDB is worthy of the kind of affection normally reserved for gods and demigogues, but you should at least question the veracity of an unverified post claiming that QDB is soliciting money for a legal defense fund.
And, frankly, I'm surprised that Placid would even post that without any attribution whatsoever.
Suppose I posted an unverified, unattributed snippet of an email message claiming that you and Placid are really members of the Patriots Movement, would you hope that people question that before jumping on the bandwagon?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
-Andrew Bowers