Hi, I just talked to my dad and mentioned your questions to him. He said that under the advice of his council he is not able to comment on any of this right now. -Andrew
Did Mr. Bowers have somewhat of a disdain for modern coins? If so, that might not have been too popular a view with Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall's company seems to have a lot invested in moderns (and not a whole lot of "classics") judging from the DHRC inventory I saw: 2 SLQs 2 seated halves 1 Barber half 1 Saint-Gaudens $20 no Liberty $10 2 Liberty 5 cents
72 Lincoln cents with memorial reverse (an MS68 1985 cent was priced at $595) 4 SBAs 76 Jefferson nickels 91 Roosies 131 Washington quarters 25 Frankies 47 Kennedy halves 13 Ikes 6 "Sacs"
Approximately 185 modern commemoratives or bullion coins--- 650 out of 838 items were post-1930 designs if you include Memorial reverse Lincolns.
Mr. Hall also seems to favor investing in coins (as Mr. Bowers also once trumpeted, but I've not seen Mr. Bowers say too much about coin investment in recent years).
You don't have to feel that QDB is worthy of the kind of affection normally reserved for gods and demigogues, but you should at least question the veracity of an unverified post claiming that QDB is soliciting money for a legal defense fund.
And, frankly, I'm surprised that Placid would even post that without any attribution whatsoever.
Suppose I posted an unverified, unattributed snippet of an email message claiming that you and Placid are really members of the Patriots Movement, would you hope that people question that before jumping on the bandwagon?
EVP >>
I thought it was pretty obvious it was a joke post That is why I put seriously in the next line. I posted it to reinforce what most already know, do not belive everything you read on a message board.
I think Dave Bowers often has said to this day, the generalization that a carefully assembled collection, held for a number of years, can prove to be a fine investment. However, he always did couch this with the caveat that perhaps the better investment is in the enjoyment of collecting.
I know this, many of the key dates I often wanted to buy - but couldn't afford - have gone up in price. Isn't that always the way?
On the flip side, I remember vividly as an 18-year old collector in 1989 bemoaning the high price of a gemmy 1935 Connecticut Half - a coin I considered beautiful but surely couldn't afford. Times change, and the nice example I have now certainly cost me a lot less than it would've in that overhyped market. Good thing I didn't have the money!
<< <i>No such requests have ever been made. -Andrew Bowers >>
It is my hope that some who have posted here are enjoying the taste of their feet firmly emplanted in their mouths.
Andy
We are finite beings, limited in all our powers, and, hence, our conclusions are not only relative, but they should ever be held subject to correction. Positive assurance is unattainable. The dogmatist is the only one who claims to possess absolute certainty.
No fawning here.David Bowers is a class act.I've bought from Bowers and Merena and the quality of service i received,in my opinion,is second to none in the coin business.His "Rare Coin Review," excellent,excellent publication.I'm just another little guy in the coin "industry" but QDB actually took some time once to personally answer me after i had written to him.
David Bowers,class act,I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>You want him? You can have him...as far as I'm concerned he's just another overinflated ego in the coin industry. Why in the hell is everyone fawning all over him? His ego is bruised so now his little world is shattered. He'll just take his ball and go play elsewhere. Just an opinion from this humble collector.
Cheers,
Bob >>
Hi ouhaul. I was saddened to read your comment about Mr. Bowers. Perhaps I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say.
Concerning Mr. Bowers statement, you said, " His ego is bruised so now his little world is shattered." It is my sense that when life altering things happen to us or others it is never little. No man's world is "little" to himself. How can another man's world be "little" and my own world be "large?" I've heard it said that when my neighbor is unemployed it's a recession, but when I'm unemployed it's a depression. I don't agree with that concept at all. My neighbor's sorrow is MY sorrow.
Dosen't sorrow and saddness deserve comfort rather than a kick in the head? Whether or not Mr. Bowers has any "dough" is irrelevant. Judging from his statement, you can sense the upheaveal in his life and he appears to be sad and out of sorts. Sorrow carries the same weight for ALL. Sorrow and saddness (along with death) are the greatest equalizers of ALL men. Perhaps the only ones! Sorrow has no respect of persons. It matters not if he is a rich man, poor man, or anything in between man.
I think it is better to pick up ANY man when he is down. It is better to comfort someone who is hurting. When we do, their newfound joy will become our own joy. I respectfully suggest this because I have read some of your excellent posts on this board and I was surprised that this particular one seemed so out of character.
Last thought; a very cruel philosopher once wrote; "that which is about to fall deserves to be pushed." I couldn't possibly disagree more with that statement and that cruel philosopher. I'm certain you that you would disagree with it too. Thank you outhaul.
<< <i>Did Mr. Bowers have somewhat of a disdain for modern coins? If so, that might not have been too popular a view with Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall's company seems to have a lot invested in moderns (and not a whole lot of "classics") judging from the DHRC inventory...
...Mr. Hall also seems to favor investing in coins (as Mr. Bowers also once trumpeted, but I've not seen Mr. Bowers say too much about coin investment in recent years). >>
It seems highly unlikely a knowledgeable and competent numismatist would be canned for not liking a segment of the hobby. He's had this dislike for at least a decade so it's a rather odd time to act on it if this were a factor. As far as the CU's businesses there will no doubt, be classics sold for the foreseeable future. As long as there is a market for something there will always be those to supply it. It certainly doesn't seem conspiratorial that a company would try to get in on the hottest segment of the market.
David Hall has no problem making money on any segment of the hobby. But, from what he has written, he does not seem overly enthused about moderns from a personal point of view.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
With all the new collectors in the hobby since the state quarter program began, it is no wonder that one of the biggest coin dealers (David Hall) would give the people what they want. That's just a matter of supplying the market to meet its demand.
i don't see that the multimillionaire rare coin brokers are doing a service to the hobby.
This is the statement i was alluding to. i'm not challenging QDB's knowledge in any way. I'm not familiar with what he's done and have no reason to doubt that he's done incredible work in his field. I was, however, addressing the elitist sentiment that if you're able to afford a $1,000,000 coin then you must be some kind of scholarly numismatist. The man who learns the history of coinage, collects affordable pieces, and passes knowledge to his kids is expected to honor some middleman as a "numismatic deity" because he bought an expensive coin. that's the elitist attitude I was refering to - some associate money with knowledge. People don't buy coins, money does.
Quite frankly, I don't understand why so many people are bashing QDB... It's one thing not to equate him with the likes of Gandhi or Mother Theresa, but another thing entirely to cast aspertions about his character or the kind of person he is.
The vast majority of those who offered harsher commentary than a mere "he's no Christ" sentiment should be ashamed for impugning a person of whom they've no real knowledge.
You people are pathetic. You represent some of the worst of humanity the way you carry about and viciously attack others for no good reason whatsoever. Go look in the mirror and get a glimpse of the kind of character before you. You are hateful, hurtful little people who will say or do anything with little regard for anyone else.
In 20,000 years since we've left Africa, we've come so far and yet moved not at all.
Best of luck with you in the great beyond. However you will be judged, remember that you will be judged.
Best of luck with you in the great beyond. However you will be judged, remember that you will be judged.
..........how in the heck did we make it to quasi-religious referencing?????
just because people have differing views of the same happening doesn't make them good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent. they just have a different prspective. what's that old saying about opinions???
if those are the reasons he is spoken of so highly then that's true - he embodies what is truly important about the hobby.
i still don't believe i've made any negative statements about the man though. the only point i made concerning him was that there are plenty of others that could use monetary support more than he - which is true.
there are plenty of others that could use monetary support more than he - which is true
Sure, that is true. But, why did you say that? It's not like he's asking for help. In fact, he's said nothing controversial; the most news worthy that he said was that his termination took him unexpectedly.
Suppose, out of the blue, I posted something to the effect that you are soliciting donations to help you build your coin collection because you are too poor. How would you feel if I did that, knowing that it's completely untrue and also casts you in a potentially negative light?
strange how philanthropy is often extended to those who need it least. maybe we could all pitch in to help QDB make his yacht payments? i'd hate to see the poor guy go without at least 6 summer homes.
that was moreless a "by-the-way" statement. my intent was to address outhaul's concerns about coins becoming an industry. i think you'll see that all my follow-up posts deal with dealers/middlemen potentially ruining hobbies (now there's a can of worms). as far as QDB soliciting money or whatever, i never even hinted at that - i don't know where it came from.
i don't think that statement casts a negative light on QDB. if anything, it casts a doubt on the true intentions of those who would "donate" to him.
PS - anyone who'd like to make a contribution to my coin-collecting fund, donations are graciously accepted!
I have all the confidence in Mr. Bowers that he will end up serving the numismatic community again in some capacity. I am certain you havent heard the last of him.
My goodness... its not like he worked in the mailroom. He is one of the top, if not the top, numismatist in our hobby today. He will be just fine (after the legal mess, that is).
Comments
Can you verify a few questions for your Dad?
1) The services of John and Chris were terminated by the CEO of Collectors Universe,Michael Haynes.
2) Your Dad was really hurt by this action because after all John and Chris were.....like family
3) Collectors Universe tried to give your Dad more money to keep your Dad employed at Collectors Universe
Stewart Blay
-Andrew
2 SLQs
2 seated halves
1 Barber half
1 Saint-Gaudens $20
no Liberty $10
2 Liberty 5 cents
72 Lincoln cents with memorial reverse (an MS68 1985 cent was priced at $595)
4 SBAs
76 Jefferson nickels
91 Roosies
131 Washington quarters
25 Frankies
47 Kennedy halves
13 Ikes
6 "Sacs"
Approximately 185 modern commemoratives or bullion coins--- 650 out of 838 items were post-1930 designs if you include Memorial reverse Lincolns.
Mr. Hall also seems to favor investing in coins (as Mr. Bowers also once trumpeted, but I've not seen Mr. Bowers say too much about coin investment in recent years).
<< <i>Pushkin,
You don't have to feel that QDB is worthy of the kind of affection normally reserved for gods and demigogues, but you should at least question the veracity of an unverified post claiming that QDB is soliciting money for a legal defense fund.
And, frankly, I'm surprised that Placid would even post that without any attribution whatsoever.
Suppose I posted an unverified, unattributed snippet of an email message claiming that you and Placid are really members of the Patriots Movement, would you hope that people question that before jumping on the bandwagon?
EVP >>
I thought it was pretty obvious it was a joke post
I posted it to reinforce what most already know, do not belive everything you read on a message board.
I know this, many of the key dates I often wanted to buy - but couldn't afford - have gone up in price. Isn't that always the way?
On the flip side, I remember vividly as an 18-year old collector in 1989 bemoaning the high price of a gemmy 1935 Connecticut Half - a coin I considered beautiful but surely couldn't afford. Times change, and the nice example I have now certainly cost me a lot less than it would've in that overhyped market. Good thing I didn't have the money!
<< <i>No such requests have ever been made.
-Andrew Bowers >>
It is my hope that some who have posted here are enjoying the taste of their feet firmly emplanted in their mouths.
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
David Bowers,class act,I wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>You want him? You can have him...as far as I'm concerned he's just another overinflated ego in the coin industry. Why in the hell is everyone fawning all over him? His ego is bruised so now his little world is shattered. He'll just take his ball and go play elsewhere. Just an opinion from this humble collector.
Cheers,
Bob >>
Hi ouhaul. I was saddened to read your comment about Mr. Bowers. Perhaps I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say.
Concerning Mr. Bowers statement, you said, " His ego is bruised so now his little world is shattered." It is my sense that when life altering things happen to us or others it is never little. No man's world is "little" to himself. How can another man's world be "little" and my own world be "large?" I've heard it said that when my neighbor is unemployed it's a recession, but when I'm unemployed it's a depression. I don't agree with that concept at all. My neighbor's sorrow is MY sorrow.
Dosen't sorrow and saddness deserve comfort rather than a kick in the head? Whether or not Mr. Bowers has any "dough" is irrelevant. Judging from his statement, you can sense the upheaveal in his life and he appears to be sad and out of sorts. Sorrow carries the same weight for ALL. Sorrow and saddness (along with death) are the greatest equalizers of ALL men. Perhaps the only ones! Sorrow has no respect of persons. It matters not if he is a rich man, poor man, or anything in between man.
I think it is better to pick up ANY man when he is down. It is better to comfort someone who is hurting. When we do, their newfound joy will become our own joy. I respectfully suggest this because I have read some of your excellent posts on this board and I was surprised that this particular one seemed so out of character.
Last thought; a very cruel philosopher once wrote; "that which is about to fall deserves to be pushed." I couldn't possibly disagree more with that statement and that cruel philosopher. I'm certain you that you would disagree with it too. Thank you outhaul.
matteproof
<< <i>Did Mr. Bowers have somewhat of a disdain for modern coins? If so, that might not have been too popular a view with Mr. Hall. Mr. Hall's company seems to have a lot invested in moderns (and not a whole lot of "classics") judging from the DHRC inventory...
...Mr. Hall also seems to favor investing in coins (as Mr. Bowers also once trumpeted, but I've not seen Mr. Bowers say too much about coin investment in recent years). >>
It seems highly unlikely a knowledgeable and competent numismatist would be canned
for not liking a segment of the hobby. He's had this dislike for at least a decade so it's a
rather odd time to act on it if this were a factor. As far as the CU's businesses there will
no doubt, be classics sold for the foreseeable future. As long as there is a market for
something there will always be those to supply it. It certainly doesn't seem conspiratorial
that a company would try to get in on the hottest segment of the market.
i don't see that the multimillionaire rare coin brokers are doing a service to the hobby.
This is the statement i was alluding to. i'm not challenging QDB's knowledge in any way. I'm not familiar with what he's done and have no reason to doubt that he's done incredible work in his field. I was, however, addressing the elitist sentiment that if you're able to afford a $1,000,000 coin then you must be some kind of scholarly numismatist. The man who learns the history of coinage, collects affordable pieces, and passes knowledge to his kids is expected to honor some middleman as a "numismatic deity" because he bought an expensive coin. that's the elitist attitude I was refering to - some associate money with knowledge. People don't buy coins, money does.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
Wow - that describes Q David Bowers to a T.
The vast majority of those who offered harsher commentary than a mere "he's no Christ" sentiment should be ashamed for impugning a person of whom they've no real knowledge.
You people are pathetic. You represent some of the worst of humanity the way you carry about and viciously attack others for no good reason whatsoever. Go look in the mirror and get a glimpse of the kind of character before you. You are hateful, hurtful little people who will say or do anything with little regard for anyone else.
In 20,000 years since we've left Africa, we've come so far and yet moved not at all.
Best of luck with you in the great beyond. However you will be judged, remember that you will be judged.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
..........how in the heck did we make it to quasi-religious referencing?????
just because people have differing views of the same happening doesn't make them good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent. they just have a different prspective. what's that old saying about opinions???
al h.
All I know is the HepCat can write a dang good book!
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
i still don't believe i've made any negative statements about the man though. the only point i made concerning him was that there are plenty of others that could use monetary support more than he - which is true.
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
there are plenty of others that could use monetary support more than he - which is true
Sure, that is true. But, why did you say that? It's not like he's asking for help. In fact, he's said nothing controversial; the most news worthy that he said was that his termination took him unexpectedly.
Suppose, out of the blue, I posted something to the effect that you are soliciting donations to help you build your coin collection because you are too poor. How would you feel if I did that, knowing that it's completely untrue and also casts you in a potentially negative light?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
strange how philanthropy is often extended to those who need it least. maybe we could all pitch in to help QDB make his yacht payments? i'd hate to see the poor guy go without at least 6 summer homes.
that was moreless a "by-the-way" statement. my intent was to address outhaul's concerns about coins becoming an industry. i think you'll see that all my follow-up posts deal with dealers/middlemen potentially ruining hobbies (now there's a can of worms). as far as QDB soliciting money or whatever, i never even hinted at that - i don't know where it came from.
i don't think that statement casts a negative light on QDB. if anything, it casts a doubt on the true intentions of those who would "donate" to him.
PS - anyone who'd like to make a contribution to my coin-collecting fund, donations are graciously accepted!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!
I have all the confidence in Mr. Bowers that he will end up serving the numismatic community again in some capacity. I am certain you havent heard the last of him.
My goodness... its not like he worked in the mailroom. He is one of the top, if not the top, numismatist in our hobby today. He will be just fine (after the legal mess, that is).
WWQ
Can I panhandle with you?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
go find your own streetcorner!
2 Cam-Slams!
1 Russ POTD!