#2 MS Kennedy and #3 MS SBA sets Stolen! / UPDATE! BREAKING NEWS!!!

Dabigkahuna · February 9, 2003 3:52AM

Please read,

I am posting this for a fellow member and collector.

" I can't post this message myself, as PCGS does not support my Mac on AOL. (Thanks Larry for doing this for me)."

#2 MS Kennedy and #3 MS SBA sets stolen

This past Friday our coin collection was stolen out of our home. This collection included the #2 MS Kennedy set, the #3 SBA set and MS69 sets of gold and platinum. Among the other coins were PR69DC Susies and Kennedys and a very special PR65 no date Kennedy on a quarter planchet.

We are devastated as this collection was our hedge against the souring economy. Back in August we purchased our first home and we have a hefty mortgage. These coins were our insurance that we would be able to meet that mortgage during these tough times. I’m self employed and work has not been coming in as it has in the past. To put it mildly, we are screwed. I need all you collectors and dealers to be on the lookout for my sets. I have the serial numbers for all but a few of these coins and since some are very very rare in their grade, I hope we can find a trail to the perpetrators and to the recovery of my sets.

For anyone who can help, I can provide a list of the coins and their serial numbers in pdf format, or I can paste it into an e-mail. If you can help and want the list, please e-mail me at: JWR1234@aol.com
Also, any advice on how to find these coins would help--who to contact, other coin bulletinboards, etc.

Thanks in advance,
John Ryan

UPDATE!! 3/4/03................

John asked me to to post this latest news on the stolen sets. I will post to the end of the tread to bring it up top.

braddick · February 9, 2003 3:55AM

Here is a LINK to the MS Kennedy set, if that is at all helpful.
http://www.pcgs.com/new_set_registry/display_coins.chtml?regsetid=5592&rank=2&alltime=yes

Dabigkahuna · February 9, 2003 3:58AM

Pat,

Thanks for the link!

braddick · February 9, 2003 4:00AM

Some of those Kennedies have no place to hide- like the pop two 1992-D.

I can't imagine any Dealer being offered these without it raising serious suspicions.

I hope the word also gets out to the Trades.
CoinWorld and Numismatic News will pick up this story in a heartbeat if notified.

wondercoin · February 9, 2003 4:16AM

If I am not mistaken, the SBA set also had (2) PCGS-MS68 1979-1980 coins in it. I have also seen those coins and have a pretty good mental picture of them. They have NO WHERE TO HIDE.

Larry - tell John I will also keep a careful eye out for any of the coins.

Wondercoin

supercoin · February 9, 2003 4:31AM

Man, sorry to hear that John.

Ditto what Pat said -- let Coin World and Numismatic News know.

Some of those are pretty specialized items, so hopefully you've got a good chance at getting them back.

LincolnCentMan · February 9, 2003 4:53AM

Man, that's TERRIBLE!!!

David

gmarguli · February 9, 2003 5:16AM

I would remove those sets from the registry. If someone goes to register one of the coins, it will give them an error message and they might keep the coin "private".

If they don't get the error message and the coin gets registered, maybe PCGS can keep a look out for anyone registering these cert numbers?

It might be a way to get a few of them back.

kranky · February 9, 2003 5:18AM

What a terrible thing! I hope they can be rounded up soon.

Does anyone know if Coin Net and CCE will put out alerts on stolen coins? That would get the word out fast.

pontiacinf · February 9, 2003 5:23AM

Ive offerd my services to your Friend and fellow board member...I hope we see this stuff before someone gets spooked and cracks em.

this is a wakeup call for me...DOCUMENT EVERYTHING

cladking · February 9, 2003 5:41AM

I can only imagine how badly this hurts. I hope they are returned.

Doesn't the ANA have a stolen coin registry?

quattrocoins · February 9, 2003 5:46AM

What Greg said makes mega sense. This should be an added bonus to the Set Registry. If a reported stolen cert. # gets registered, the computer should set-off horns and sirens!!!

jmho

Good luck, John.

Don

kieferscoins · February 9, 2003 5:59AM

Sorry to hear. Send a release to Coin World and Numismatic News. They usually are pretty good about trying to get the word out, even if the article is very short. They always include contact info if anyone see's any of them.

Cameron Kiefer

KlectorKid · February 9, 2003 6:15AM

Why did they have a 2nd and 3rd place reg. in their house sitting around? Was it in a safe? If it was not put away than I cant really feel sorry for them, its like not wearing pants and going to pick up your daughter friends you know something bad is going to happen. Either way it really is to bad.

littlewicher · February 9, 2003 6:18AM

<< <i>If it was not put away than I cant really feel sorry for them >>

How can you say that? People just don't have the right to walk in to other people's houses and take whatever they like, no matter where it was stored. People work hard for their assets. I feel sorry for them. It's too bad we have scums in our world, that profit off other people's hardwork.

leothelyon · February 9, 2003 7:04AM

Sorry to hear about your misfortune. What are the chances the crooks know exactly what they got. The culprits may very well be people you have invited into your house or have bragged to about your collections. There's also the possibility the crooks have lurked these boards who have figured out when you work and where you live. It's a very unfortunate thing to happen.

Leo

slugfootball · February 9, 2003 7:06AM

Hello John,
Send me a list of the coins (serial #'s) and we'll keep an eye out in So. Cal. !!!

Mike Keller

leothelyon · February 9, 2003 7:13AM

It might be a good idea to be careful in what we post as these crooks may be lurking these threads.
There's no sense in eduacting them.

Leo

gmarguli · February 9, 2003 7:39AM

The culprits may very well be people you have invited into your house or have bragged to about your collections. There's also the possibility the crooks have lurked these boards who have figured out when you work and where you live.

That's why you don't keep expensive coins in your home. You keep them in a bank safety deposit box. The lesser value coins you keep in a home safe.

If you insist on keeping expensive coins in your home, then get an insurance policy and don't complain when they get stolen and you get a check instead of your hard put-together collection.

FrattLaw · February 9, 2003 8:34AM

Just out of curiosity as well as it might help to know in regards to recovery, what part of the country did this take place in? ie, state, county ect would be helpful.

Will keep an eye out for you,

Michael

Dimetime · February 9, 2003 9:13AM

I agree. Can you give us a little more info about how this happened. Coins in a safe? Time of day? State?

Monstavet · February 9, 2003 9:23AM

I am terribly sorry to hear about this...I know I contributed at least one coin to that JFK set and it was a beauty. Keep an eye out on Ebay, Yahoo, Teletrade, etc.

Wouldn't homeowner's insurance cover at least some of these losses?

DId you have an alarm system? Have the police been notified?

Remember when MoneyLA's PR70 Washie showed up on Teletrade? Board members were on that like a hobo on a ham sandwich! We'll keep an eye out for 'em!

tompkins · February 9, 2003 9:28AM

I just don't see how ANYONE can take the attitude that someone deserves this because they kept their collection in the house!! Shame on those (gmarguli and KlectorKid) who have said this in one form or another. I choose to eat my dinner on the 65 year old expensive china my mother gave me, using her expensive silver ware. These are things of value that are also utilitarian, and they certainly aren't going to be locked in a safety deposit box in between meals!! Similary, some may chose to enjoy their coins.

When I was a teenager (some 40 or so years ago) we kept the house and the cars unlocked. The neighbors could come and go; and my brother and I could come and go into the neightbors houses---and nothing was ever stolen. One neighbor even had an open pool available for the neighborhood to use. It is an unfortunate shame that we need to be more careful these days. but that doeesn't change the fact that we have a RIGHT to the enjoyment of our own property, and it's pretty hard to enjoy if it spends all its time locked up in the Bank. My heart goes out to John and I sincerely hope his collection is located intact and returned.

Pete

gmarguli · February 9, 2003 9:36AM

tompkins, you are mistaken. I did not in any way, shape, or form say he deserved this for keeping the coins in his house.

Here is what I said: "That's why you don't keep expensive coins in your home. You keep them in a bank safety deposit box. The lesser value coins you keep in a home safe.

If you insist on keeping expensive coins in your home, then get an insurance policy and don't complain when they get stolen and you get a check instead of your hard put-together collection."

I thought I was rather clear. You don't keep expensive coins at home. Period. A home is a lot easier to steal from than a bank safety deposit box.

And if you insist on keeping them at your home, you need an insurance policy AND you have to accept the fact that if something does happen to them, that you get a check and not your coins back. Personally, I'd rather have my coins than an insurance check. It's that simple.

tompkins · February 9, 2003 9:48AM

Greg;
My apologies! i read the thread rather quickly, and I guess I really only read the first sentence and glossed over the rest. I stand by my statement that it is unfortunate that we have to take these steps today to enjoy our own property. But as I re-read your post, there is really nothing in it I disagree with.

Again, my apologies for mis-characterizing it.

Pete

MacCoin · February 9, 2003 9:58AM

that really sucks. sorry to hear about your lost sets.

twodollardon · February 9, 2003 10:48AM

If anyone hasn't priced home owner insurance for coins, I have. Not affordable at all. You can figure .40-.50 on the $. That made my decision for me.

Sorry to hear about the lose no matter where it was.

KolectorKid: "If it was not put away than I cant really feel sorry for them, "

I HOPE SOME DAY I CAN RETURN THE SAME COMMENT.

Some folk's may have larger collections than would fit in a shoe box! !

Don

wondercoin · February 9, 2003 11:11AM

I was asked by John Benbow to post here when his coins were stolen about a year ago. Last I heard, they were not yet recovered. I believe these coins and John Benbow's coins should come off the pop report (especially the "pop 1" or "2" coins) so that even a small town dealer can see they do not show up in the PCGS system if they come into his shop for sale. I can assist PCGS with identifying many of the stolen Benbow coins and John Ryan also has his sets registered, so that would be easy as well.

Bear in mind, some of these coins simply can not come out of the holder and get resubmitted. First, even if the coins regraded in the same grade, some of the coins are pop 2 and pop 3 and would still stand out like a sore thumb if they were attempted to be sold. Second, if the coins regraded lower, a $6000 coin becomes a $200 coin. It is very likely these coins will be peddled in the PCGS holders, so everyone should be on high alert. Wondercoin

cosmicdebris · February 9, 2003 11:17AM

Sorry to hear this. I will keep my eyes pealed on eBay incase they show up there.

MoneyLA · February 9, 2003 2:15PM

I'm sorry this happened and like all of you I will be vigilent about any high grade coins coming to market.

Unfortunately, it is likely that the crook will try to sell these through some local, neighborhood coin dealer who might not know about this forum, or even follow the Registry.

However, we might get a lucky break and these rare coins might find their way to the top, public auctions. Remember that my stolen pr70 Washington showed up on Teletrade a few weeks after it was stolen from the mail.

And again, this is more reason to keep collections in a bank safe deposit box, and NEVER at home even in a home safe.

Regarding the statement about homeowners insurance: "Wouldn't homeowner's insurance cover at least some of these losses?" Most HO policies have low limits for collectibles, usually five-hundred dollars or less, UNLESS special additional coverage is purchased.

Don't forget that the owner can file a casualty loss claim on their federal tax return, but unfortunately, the tax deduction has a high "deductible" which I beleive is 10% or 15% of adjusted gross income. I would have to check the IRS to find the exact qualifications for such a property loss.

Be sure you have the proper police reports filed and copies in your files.

best of luck.

cheers, alan mendelson

Gilbert · February 9, 2003 2:21PM

May I suggest owner post certificate numbers in the forum. I for one would print the list out to have readily available for comparison. I can't help at all without knowing what I'm looking for. It would also help if owner or BigKahuna would post some location of theft information. Knowing the originating source is helpful, providing you want to recover.

Cocoinut · February 9, 2003 2:42PM

I hate to hear of this sort of thing, and my heart goes out to John, but as Greg stated, it demonstrates the possible consequences of keeping valuable coins at home. I have 3 medium-sized boxes, which cost me $52 each per year. It's a heck of a lot cheaper than a rider on my household insurance would be, but it's not without risk. The contents of safe deposit boxes are NOT covered by the bank's insurance. If a thief breaks into the safe deposit boxes of a bank, and steals your collection, there is no liability on the bank's part. Most insurance companies will offer a lower rate for coins stored in bank vaults, but it's still not cheap if you have a sizeable collection.

A digital camera is a smart investment. You can take decent pictures, and view your collection on your computer or television. Photos of even a fairly large collection can be burned onto a single CD. More importantly, you can create a record of every slabbed coin's grade and serial number, which helps track them down if they are offered to dealers. It would even be possible to make copies of a CD and distribute them to dealers in the area. Note: do NOT store the CD containing your photos in the same location as any "junk" coins you may keep at home.

Jim

khayse · February 9, 2003 11:04PM

> If you insist on keeping expensive coins in your home, then get an insurance policy and don't complain when they get stolen

> If it was not put away than I cant really feel sorry for them

You people are nutty like fruitcake. If the guy kept them on his
dining room table I would still feel bad for him if some worthless
thug broke in and stole them. Also I don't believe where he kept them
or whether they were insured has any bearing on him being able to
complain about the horrible loss he has suffered.

Larry, please pass along our sympathies to John.

-Keith H

GaCoinGuy · February 10, 2003 12:21AM

has anyone ever answered the Q as to what part of the country this happened? Some of the guys who go to lots of shows might come across them if they know to look for them.

I hate to think of anyone losing coins(or anything else) to a lowlife thief...........but at the same time, I like to look at my collection(such as it is) without having to run to the bank.

Hope they get recovered

grip · February 10, 2003 12:36AM

All I can say it's a dam shame.You may also want to contact local Pawn shops to alert them,that may be the first place they will go to dump them.Most pawn shops in my area are kinda shady,they will buy anything.It may help to post the certificate #'s.Al

Dabigkahuna · February 10, 2003 12:52AM

John is able to read the threads but his machine won't allow him to post. Apples and Oranges.

I have also forwarded any letters I have received onto John.

Here is a follow-up I just received from John.

The robbery occured in Santa Cruz county California Friday 2/7 in the late morning or early afternoon. I don't want to give out any more information at the present time. Thanks for all the support and ideas and with all the eyes out there, we may get our coins back. I've gotten some good ideas form all of you. Will keep ya posted.

John

DAM · February 10, 2003 3:16AM

Makes my gut ache to read about this.

When and if the person(s) are found, they cry a little to the judge and get a slap on the wrist. Good luck getting the coins back! Hopefully, you will be the exception to the rule ,and be made whole.

I agree with posting the cert numbers. Post them and email a copy to as many dealers as possible.

RGL · February 10, 2003 3:35AM

I certainly would notify every coin shop and pawn shop possible in the region and to make it worth their while to keep an eye out, post a reward, to boot. Send as may as you can identify a fax or e-mail with certification numbers and descriptions, etc. (And, a reminder to all, keep a data base of all purchases and cert numbers, etc., because not all coins are in our registry sets, I imagine, so it would not yield all of your numbers if something were to happen to our coins.) Good luck. Your ace in the hole is that thieves generally are dumb.

DRG · February 11, 2003 6:07AM

That Just sucks!!!!!

I will also keep an eye out.

I agree that this is NEVER deserved. I grew up in a home where the doors and windows were always open and when our home was burglarized our neighbors rightly were sad for us. While I now live under lock, key alarms, and personal security. It is not the way it should be.

Sorry John!

I hope this works out.

seth2720 · February 11, 2003 9:51AM

im sorry to hear that

KlectorKid · February 14, 2003 8:29AM

I knew I would flammed, I said if "they were not put away i dont feel sorry for them" That is carless on their part (They may have not even left them out) Its not their fault they were stolen but they could have prevented it. Yes I do know people have collections that wouldnt fit in a shoe box, mine doesnt I keep mine in a safe where people have to do alot of working to get my coins. Maybe they broke into a safe i dont know. Tompkins this isnt 40 years ago this kind of stuff will happen if you let it. I dont think they deserved it and their is nothing wrong with keeping stuff in you house, but if you dont keep things under lock and key this kind of stuff will happen.

DRG · February 25, 2003 5:14PM

PM Sent.

RegistryCoin · February 25, 2003 5:57PM

I'm glad to hear (assume) that nobody was hurt.

Dabigkahuna · March 4, 2003 9:42AM

UPDATE!!!
Here is the latest report from John on the stolen registry sets. This is very good news!

03/04/2003

Our county sheriff's department caught the punks who stole my coin sets. As of now I am not entirely sure what was recovered-the deputy said they found a lot of coins. These guys broke into houses in three counties (Santa Cruz, Monterey and Santa Clara). And there is a lot of stuff to catalog and photograph. In a brief conversation with the detective, it sounds like the SBA and Kennedy and Franklin collections may be in tack. The platinum and gold sets most likely have been broken out and may have been pawned. They found some empty broken plastic holders in the trash. I will have more comment on this when I know more. I really need to find out how/why they targeted us.

Thanks all--John Ryan

itsnotjustme · March 4, 2003 10:06AM

Good news. I hope all or most comes back unharmed to John.

Dabigkahuna · March 4, 2003 10:24AM

It' trully a shame some were broken out but it sounds like the sets are still together.

Isn't Santa Cruz one of Dirty Harry's hang outs?

raycyca · March 4, 2003 1:00PM

I'm glad to hear you'll (hopefully soon) will be getting your babies back! How about talking to some of the local police and see if they are coin collectors. If so, could they possibly arrange a little "quiet time" alone with the thieves, maybe with you and a few friends named Bubba? Only kinnding, but wouldn't it be nice? I hope you get your complete sets back, they are very hard to put together. Good luck! Ray

cladking · March 4, 2003 10:20PM

Very good news. I'm sure it's a tremendous relief. Keep us posted.

pontiacinf · March 4, 2003 10:24PM

OH I AM VERY GLAD TO HEAR THIS

that was worth the caps flame

DAM · March 5, 2003 7:04AM

I have been watching this thread in hopes of seeing good results. My stomach was in knots when you posted about the loss. I hope he gets everything returned safe and in it's original condition. It sounds like some of the coins may have already found their way into someone else's hands. I suppose losing a couple of coins is a small price to pay in the overall scheme of things. Perhaps he can recover some or all of his loss through some type of victim program in his area, if there is one.

khayse · March 6, 2003 7:25AM

Glad to hear much of the stuff was recovered.

-KHayse

#2 MS Kennedy and #3 MS SBA sets Stolen! / UPDATE! BREAKING NEWS!!!

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