Sales tax SOON on all your coin purchases over the Internet

relayer · February 7, 2003 1:41PM

Sales Tax

abuell · February 7, 2003 1:49PM

I always gladly pay the Oregon sales tax on everything that I buy, be it online or otherwise.

LucyBop · February 7, 2003 1:51PM

I loved the fact of no sales tax the 11 months I lived in Hillsboro Oregon..... I miss that....

coppercoins · February 7, 2003 1:54PM

So, I ask...How does this affect the sale of coins since I live in a state that has no sales tax on coins? Not at all because it's a tax-exempt item, or is it affected because it's an online sale, regardless of what's for sale?

Lakesammman · February 7, 2003 1:55PM

Doesn't look like much of a change - if a business has a presence in your state, they have to collect the tax. If they don't, they won't. They've been doing that for some time even with online sales. Many states like Wa. don't collect on coin/currency transactions anyway.

dbldie55 · February 7, 2003 1:56PM

According to that article, they will be required to charge sales tax in all states other than Alaska, Hawaii and Vermont. Makes no since that I should pay sales tax when I live in a state with no sales tax.

Guess I just won't buy from any of these vendors.

Placid · February 7, 2003 2:03PM

IN EXCHANGE for signing onto the agreement, the retailers will not be held liable for back sales taxes they may owe, according to people familiar with the agreement.
Those involved would not say which retailers agreed to the deal, but retailers including Toys “R” Us, Wal-Mart and Target recently posted new policies on sales taxes. Amazon.com, which has partnerships with Target.com, MarshallFields.com and Mervyns.com to sell items online, notified customers of the change through a posting on its site.

“Effective February 2, 2003, target.direct and marshallfields.direct will be required to charge sales tax in all states other than Alaska, Hawaii, and Vermont. The new collection requirements will apply to all orders shipped and charged on or after February 2, 2003, even if your order was placed prior to this date,” the posting said.
Many online retailers have avoided charging customers sales tax because companies are not required to do so unless they have a physical presence in a customer’s state. Americans are supposed to pay taxes voluntarily on items they order from Web sites and mail-order companies that are located outside the state in which they live. But very few people do.

Brick-and-mortar retailers have argued that the confusing online sales tax policy has put them at a disadvantage because many Web purchases have essentially been tax-free, a problem that could be rectified by the implementation of the new amnesty agreement.
“This is a demonstration of our ongoing belief that stores and online retailers should be treated equally,” Target spokesman Doug Kline said.
State representatives cheered implementation of the deal, which they see as particularly necessary in these rocky financial times.
“It is part of a major milestone in state tax consolidation,” said Diane Hardt, tax administrator for the Wisconsin Department of Revenue and co-chair of the Streamlined Sales Tax Project, which came up with the plan.

Meanwhile, there’s a move afoot in Congress to ban online sales taxes altogether. In January, Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., renewed their efforts to prohibit online sales taxes by introducing a bill that would turn the current moratorium into an outright ban. The moratorium on blanket Internet sales taxes expires in November.

Ok where does it say all internet sales will be taxed for all businesses?

Woodwind · February 7, 2003 2:04PM

<< I always gladly pay the Oregon sales tax on everything that I buy, be it online or otherwise. >>

I hear you on that. I have family in Oregon and my parents are planning on moving there after retirement. It's nice not to have to pay that sales tax. It catches me off guard to actually pay $9.99 at the register for something that costs $9.99.

relayer · February 7, 2003 2:29PM

Placid - you are correct. I've changed the "NOW" in the title to "SOON".

Placid · February 7, 2003 2:57PM

The moratorium on blanket Internet sales taxes expires in November.

If they don't renew it or make it permanent then november should be the earliest.

cacheman · February 7, 2003 2:58PM

Unfortunately we make up for the lack of a sales tax with the nations highest State income tax....don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be this way than dink with a sales tax. Either way, the State is going bankrupt just like the States with a sales tax. S

K6AZ · February 7, 2003 3:15PM

I got hit with this last week when I ordered some memory from Micron. On the checkout it mentioned the 38 states that it had to collect sales tax from. Not much of a big deal to me, since VA sales tax is 4.5%, but I am sure this is a bummer for those of you who live where the sales tax is oppresive, like NYC and CA.

gmarguli · February 7, 2003 3:46PM

Unfortunately we make up for the lack of a sales tax with the nations highest State income tax....don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be this way than dink with a sales tax.

I'd rather pay a high sales tax than a state income tax. At least sales tax is somewhat fair. You get taxed on what you buy. No one gets a free ride with it. You can't really cheat the government out of their tax money since you're paying it to a multitude of retailers. Income tax is just designed to see how they can screw you for being prosperous at you profession.

Thankfully, I live in CA so I get high sales tax and high income tax. However, it is needed for critical programs like deciding which hospitals to close, which political contributors to get "paid back", and giving illegal immigrants free food, housing, and medical coverage.

cacheman · February 7, 2003 3:50PM

<< and giving illegal immigrants free food, housing, and medical coverage. >>

And when they feel they've been screwed they move further north, i.e. Oregon...

hjohn74 · February 7, 2003 7:30PM

I buy most of my coins from DLRC, so I've been paying sales tax. I was thinking about moving to escape the taxes, but I guess this idea won't work now.

Fairlaneman · February 7, 2003 7:49PM

Yea that high Oregon Income Tax is always used effectively. Just yesterday I saw 5 people with 5 different trucks and 2 other pieces of equipment that were cutting down 2 spindly trees along I-405 here in Portland. My only thought is that we need a Sales Tax also so this can be turned into 10 people with 10 different trucks a few more pieces of equipment and then only cut down 1 spindly tree.

Taxes are needed but Crap when are these people going to learn how to use the Money ? My guess is Never in my life time.

Ken

dddangerousdan · February 7, 2003 8:10PM

<< Unfortunately we make up for the lack of a sales tax with the nations highest State income tax....don't get me wrong, I'd rather it be this way than dink with a sales tax.

I'd rather pay a high sales tax than a state income tax. At least sales tax is somewhat fair. You get taxed on what you buy. No one gets a free ride with it. You can't really cheat the government out of their tax money since you're paying it to a multitude of retailers. Income tax is just designed to see how they can screw you for being prosperous at you profession.

Thankfully, I live in CA so I get high sales tax and high income tax. However, it is needed for critical programs like deciding which hospitals to close, which political contributors to get "paid back", and giving illegal immigrants free food, housing, and medical coverage. >>

Greg don't fprget all the high quality electricity your gov. bought

DAN

Conder101 · February 7, 2003 10:23PM

Fairlaneman,
I didn't hear the results of the election last year but did they pass that socialized medicine bill last Nov (Free health care for all) that was going to result in the doubling of the state income tax? (Because the medical bills would have doubled the states annual budget.)

lathmach · February 7, 2003 10:51PM

No sales tax on coins in Michigan.

Ray

RKKay · February 7, 2003 10:56PM

In CA, on coins of $1000 or above, there is no sales tax. Will the application of sales tax via the Internet apply the same way, namely with the $1000+ exemption? Or does it mean that exemption is preempted?

RegistryCoin · February 7, 2003 11:08PM

In addition to one of the highest income taxes, Oregon also enjoys one of the highest property taxes.
No sales tax. But it's not even a "push" anymore.

BamaBoy · February 7, 2003 11:42PM

Once the sales tax is imposed, it is only a matter of time before the large cities try to get their share.

cacheman · February 7, 2003 11:51PM

<< In addition to one of the highest income taxes, Oregon also enjoys one of the highest property taxes. >>

Registrycoin is right on this one...I see a push for a sales tax coming but it won't be "instead" of income or property tax, but in "addition" to them.

Last year I paid out a little over $7000 in property taxes!!!! Scott

nwcs · February 7, 2003 11:53PM

I don't see how this will change much. Many coin purchases are from individuals or companies that likely won't be collecting tax. At worst, it will mean more attendance at local shows! And of course there is the BST board. I wonder, though, what the effect short-term will be on online sales?

ms71 · February 8, 2003 1:29AM

Easy answer. Everybody should move up here to New Hampshire. No sales tax, no income tax.

wallstreetman · February 9, 2003 1:26PM

Your better off with sales tax, that way you can get people passing through to help pay the property taxes!

oreville · February 9, 2003 2:32PM

Lets get something straight here. A lot of inaccurate information being stated here.

First of all, where you live and where you have the coins shipped to determines what sales rate you pay regardless of what sales tax rate the seller charges. You must notify the seller that your sales rate is x% if they insist on charging you sales tax.

If the seller insists on charging you sales tax and they are from another state and it is an internet sale there is no requirement for you to pay sales tax......yet. However, you ARE required to pay a USE tax equal to the sales tax rate on any purchaes you make from out of state.

So if you live in Massachusetts and work in New Hampshire having coins shipped to your office saves you a fortune in sales tax.

Another example, if you live in California and you buy under $1K in coins from any other state that purchase is free of any sales tax provided it is SHIPPED by common carrier (mail etc) to California.

Coppercoins asked:

<< So, I ask...How does this affect the sale of coins since I live in a state that has no sales tax on coins? Not at all because it's a tax-exempt item, or is it affected because it's an online sale, regardless of what's for sale? >>

Coppercoins..answer,,,NEVER TAXABLE to you as long as the coins are mailed to you regardless of what sales tax rate the shipper has in his home state and WHY???? once you ship across state lines the transaction is an interstate transaction and sales tax of the seller ceases to apply and the buyer's state takes over, no matter what even if there is a sales tax law imposed on the internet that copies the current non-internet sales tax rules in effect.

What has happened is that companies having locations in various states are starting to charge state sales tax in which the buyers live provided that the seller has a brick and mortar unit located in the buyers' state to protect the seller from past sales tax liabilities. Now, if coppercoins wanted to buy an item that is normally taxable in his state and used to pay no sales tax over the internet from a buyer located in another state............ that is the area that is slowly changing and may change even more so.

I used to buy office supplies free of sales tax from Reliable, Quill, Staples, etc. on line but no more. They now charge sales based on my home town sales tax rate. Why? They have warehouses in my state.

Trime · February 9, 2003 8:44PM

Oreville,
Thanks for the clarification. How does this effect the > $1000 coin purchase value sales tax exemption?

BillJones · February 9, 2003 9:30PM

I HATE sales taxes. I think they stink. The reason is that the law is unequally applied. Some dealers go to show after show, don't have resale numbers and never pay a dime. They have a distinct advantage over me because I obey the law.

I'll take an income tax over a sales or a value added tax anytime. If I make money then the government gets its cut. If I don't, they don't.

Some people think that a value added tax will make things better. They live in a fantasy world where they think the value added tax will REPLACE the income tax. Dream on!

First the VAT is a hidden tax that can be quietly raised without most people knowing it. Politicians LOVE that. Second, once the liberal politicians get their foot in the door with another revenue source, they will go back and revive or increase the cash flow from the old sources. Then we will have both taxes.

Never, never submit to new tax sources. Old taxes never go away; they are simply augmented by the new taxes.

nwcs · February 9, 2003 9:48PM

I definitely agree with your position against VAT. It's not the kind of tax we want -- just ask the Europeans. As for an income tax, it's only an acceptable tax when it's done fairly. Which is why I'm in favor of a flat % tax with no deductions. Streamlines the process saving billions in processing, the rich cannot find clever ways around it, and it is inherently more fair. But that's as likely as Congress managing money well.

BillJones · February 9, 2003 10:11PM

<<So if you live in Massachusetts and work in New Hampshire having coins shipped to your office saves you a fortune in sales tax. >>

Oreville, that strategy works until you get caught. If you buy an item outside of Mass. and pay no sales tax on it you are liable for it in the form of use taxes. In fact there is a line for it on this year's Mass. income tax form.

Chances are they won't get you, but if you are big fish or get too vocal about it, they could prosecute you. Just ask the ex CEO of Tyco. He got caught doing exactly what you are doing and now they are roasting him.

Besides if you have an invoice for $1,000 or more in coins or bullion there's not tax in Mass. Given that, how much are you really saving?

fcloud · February 9, 2003 10:13PM

Sales tax doen't bother me. What bothers me is the fact that when you add all the taxes together, my state, Wisconsin, is the third highest in the nation. There is no reason that we should be so high. A new gov was elected here, and he cliams he won't raise any taxes. Then he goes and increases license fees fishing, hunting, driving, boat registration, auto registration, etc... and whatever else they can find! For some reason they feel if they call it a fee, then the stupid public won't know taxes just went up again! They don't even have a clue that they have been chasing business after business out of Wisconsin, year in and year out. Who cares let them collect sales tax on purchases from out of state, maybe they will chase more people away and business away, and everyone can collect handouts, I think it is their goal anyway. I am just waiting for Wisconsin to take your entire paycheck, and then send you a stipens, so that everyone can be equal. (I hope I didn't just give them an idea.) Socializm doesn't work, but they keep trying! Currently no. 3 with a goal of no. 1!

baccaruda · February 9, 2003 10:37PM

Last year I paid out a little over $7000 in property taxes!!!!

omg - that's outrageous. my prop tax bill last year was $1,100. granted their's probably a huge difference between our "property", but still.

you should always lobby for a sales tax over property tax - that way people from out of state pick up part of the tab. take florida for example - they just gouge the crap out of tourists to pay their bills.

ScarsdaleCoin · February 10, 2003 12:02AM

More interesting that the sales tax is the fact that the IRS is watching ebay sales and will one day come down hard on all the sellers for not reporting income....watch and see....

oreville · February 10, 2003 12:08AM

Bill Jones: You are right. I never advocated bringing the coins back from New Hampshire to Massachussetts as once a collector does that he is then liable for the "use" tax the second he crosses the state line into Massachusetts.

I should have made that clear.

Besides, doesn't everyone keep most of their coins near their office so they can sneak a look at their local bank (safe deposit box) during lunch hour?

As long as the coins stay in the tax free state there is no liability to the other state.

Thanks for bringing up the needed clarification.

sinin1 · February 10, 2003 1:16AM

Something missing in this thread is the obvious -

The stores listed have stores in every state and by not charging sales tax, they were definitely breaking the rules - If you have a physical presence in that state, you must charge sales tax.

Not many coin dealers have a presence in more than a couple states, I am not sure what big dealers do when they travel to shows in another state - I think I know what the state the show is held in would like them to do ( collect sales tax and pay income tax for income received in that state).

I live in MN, and even professional sports players who come here to play are supposed to pay MN taxes on that performance in this state.

I feel it will be along time until sellers on eBay or Yahoo will be responsible for taxes on every location they sell to - and who would collect and enforce?

clw54 · February 10, 2003 1:22AM

<< In CA, on coins of $1000 or above, there is no sales tax. Will the application of sales tax via the Internet apply the same way, namely with the $1000+ exemption? Or does it mean that exemption is preempted? >>

I expect that exemption to change soon. It can be done without political risk because few people spend $1000+ on coins at a time.

meos1 · February 10, 2003 2:10AM

All;

I hear each and every one of you complaining about some form of tax or another. Lets get right down to business.

1. Government will never learn how to be a good steward of money they don't have to earn. Taxes are an allowance as far as the government sees it.
2. Get ready to fork over more cash so we can pay for wars and gas, and of course we will need to subsidize the oil industries because those hydrogen cars destroyed the market that Exxon, Modil and the other robber barrons dominated for nearly one hundred years.
3. The government does not care about you, get over it. You are to keep your head down and keep earning money so it can be taxed like mad. How else can we afford to give a tax cut on divedends.
4. Theres no avoiding dying... When you die they get more of your money. Kinda like asking Dad for your allowance the same day he comes home and announces "I got laid off today".
5. If your a christian and you follow the word of the Lord and go forth and marry... Well you guessed it. They are gonna tax you more heavily to pay for some pandering they are doing with a group of people who chose not to listen to the word of the Lord.
6. The government lies to you anyway. When my father joined the military one of the stipulations of his willingness to protect the likes of Bill Clinton was that with an honorable discharge he would be provided free medical care for the rest of his life. Well they forgot that promise, and when he died , you guessed it, they had thier hand out for payment on services rendered almost ten years ago. They told me they were running that far behind.

So the government has found a new way to milk you. It just a pull and tug at he same ol teet they have been attached to for years. We need real reform in Government ot just lip service.

Conder101 · February 10, 2003 6:30AM

Politicians, remember, the American revolution was fought over a tax rate of 3%.

Sales tax SOON on all your coin purchases over the Internet

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