How can you tell that this has been cleaned?

MtMan · February 7, 2003 4:14AM

I was drooling over this coin but was a little hesitant to pick it up given that it had been branded "cleaned". Can anyone tell me what gives it away that it has been cleaned? Is there anything that can be done to remove the cleaned look over time without introducing wear? I've heard of leaving a coin on the windowsill or wearing it in your shoe for a week but I can't think it would be productive to do the latter with a coin that supposedly has uncirculated details : )

http://www.heritagecoin.com/common/auctions/viewlot.asp?s=314&l=6184&zoom=1&SID=F71E1C5A5B6C4E1783A3A7BEC1FBE767#Photo

MtMan

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 4:16AM

linkified

KlectorKid · February 7, 2003 4:17AM

My guess is there are hairlines all over the coin that are not shown by the picture.

airplanenut · February 7, 2003 4:18AM

My guess is there are a few hairlines... looks like it was light (hence the very small downgrade) and it has probably toned over.

Jeremy

KlectorKid · February 7, 2003 4:21AM

For your other question you cant help that coin. If you wear it down it wont be unc. anymore if you leave it on a windowsill it will retone but to an expert will still be "cleaned". It is a nice coin if you want it buy it, you can get it cheaper and after time it wont look cleaned unless closly examined, might get a good price on it.

BillJones · February 7, 2003 4:21AM

It looks like it's been "fried" by too many dippings or one harsh dipping. It appears to have Mint State sharpness, but the luster is gone because the chemicals etched it away.

It's a shame that collectors have to be so fickle. First they want "white" coins. Then they want "killer toning." In the process of going from one to the other to satisfy their whim, at lot of coins get runined forever.

This is why it's usually best to leave coins alone.

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 4:23AM

Mt,

IMO the word "cleaned" looks very ugly on a slab. people think it's worthless. if you like it get it off ebay for a tiny fraction of an "uncleaned" price, crack it out and enjoy it!

clw54 · February 7, 2003 4:27AM

Yeah, people used to like shiny coins so people whizzed them. Now people want colorful coins so people find ways to make them colorful. There will come a day when people will want coins that haven't been mucked with and there won't be any, at least not uncirculated.

paigowjohnny · February 7, 2003 4:28AM

I think Bill Jones is right here...may not have a single hairline on it, but the dipping killed the luster.

I have a 91-CC Morgan that just got bagged by PCGS for cleaning.....not a hairline in sight, but the luster, although present, is "subdued"....probably the result of some moron overdipping it...

MtMan · February 7, 2003 4:43AM

I'm a bit new to this but it seems like this coin has some luster. How can you tell if a coins luster has been subdued due to dipping, light wear or toning? Is it something you have to have the coin in your hand to detect? Even though this seems to be a good picture It's just hard for me to tell what the problem is.

Thanks everyone for your input and advice. Thanks for posting a real link barracuda.

MtMan

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 4:49AM

lustre is hard to pick up from a scan.

i have a 1934 Peace dollar i got from ebay that is extremely beautiful, 1 little tiny tick mark on the reverse. the obverse is an incredible strike for a peace dollar (though more common to the 34s). the coin looks like it's been dipped to death though, very little lustre remains.

guess what? the grading services can kiss my butt because i love it anyway.

mr1931S · February 7, 2003 4:54AM

could have hairlines that cant be seen in the images...ANACS netted to 55 which is kind of low if the coin has been only subjected to light cleaning.The net 55 grade suggests to me that the cleaning is kind of harsh otherwise this coin,which appears to have very little or no actual wear and is a decent strike, would be a 58.

does look kind of "washed out" (from dipping) and the dark areas (uneven toning)at the top on each side indicate to me that the coin was dipped and not properly rinsed...improper rinsing has spoiled many an otherwise nice, even though dipped, coin.looks like a case of someone who didn't really know what they were doing once attempted to improve this coin's appearance.

Leftcoast · February 7, 2003 4:58AM

dorkkarl · February 7, 2003 5:00AM

heritage digi-pics are just awful. no way to tell from that scan exactly what the problem is.

don't get so caught up in whether it's cleaned or not. if your drooling all over it, you must really like it, so get it, & enjoy!

K S

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 5:01AM

cat got your tongue leftcoast?

Leftcoast · February 7, 2003 5:04AM

Wrong @%$# button

So can anyone give me the scoop on cleaning the little white spots on 1994 Silver eagles?

braddick · February 7, 2003 5:06AM

It can't be that bad of a cleaning or ANACS wouldn't have netted it from MS to AU55 (it would have been AU50).

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 5:09AM

you can't do it leftcoast - if you figure out how tell the rest of us.

supposedly those irritating "milk spots" became part of the coin when struck and are a permanent part of the coin. probably half my BU SAEs have the affliction.

Julian · February 7, 2003 5:12AM

Like many of the other respondents, I too think that you should go after the coin. The services are selectively cranky about cleaned coins. Many, many encapsulated coins have been cleaned and enhanced, even. The bottom line is buy it if you like it and do not worry about the services' opinions. It is your collection and your money.

Leftcoast · February 7, 2003 5:13AM

How does it effect grades from PCGS,NGC, etc?

Leftcoast · February 7, 2003 5:18AM

MtMan- nice coin! If it feels good do it!

I'm gonna start a new thread maybe do a poll.
Later all

paigowjohnny · February 7, 2003 5:22AM

PCGS and NGC would probably bag it . They don't do the net grade thing.

mr1931S · February 7, 2003 5:23AM

PCGS and NGC will not encapsulate a coin that,in their opinion,has been subjected to harsh cleaning...

you could be right about ANACS's net grading,Braddick...the coin might not be all that bad but i'm kind of a crankbait about cleaning too...if properly done,i'm generally okay with it...if improperly done i get cranky...

baccaruda · February 7, 2003 5:25AM

leftcoast -

i don't think the spots would affect the grade - only the eye appeal.

sinin1 · February 7, 2003 6:20AM

MtMan (Jeremiah Slade?), you should be careful on yout links to Heritage, it my give access to your info.

If ANACS called it cleaned, most likely the field has hairlines somewhere and probably the obverse - like someone tried scrubbing it.

ANACS usually goes with AU55 on MS coins that net out - NGC or PCGS probably would have bodybagged. Depending on degree of cleaning, you may be able to lower problem by dipping unless of course like other people said it has been overdipped already and has no luster.

Barry · February 7, 2003 6:57AM

There are also times when ANACS notes CLEANED on a slab and there are no hairlines or evidence of harsh cleaning, just an old dipping.

Dog97 · February 8, 2003 2:24AM

The stains & discoloration are from a chemical cleaning is what I think. The dark areas on rev used to be the original Barber tone which is usually dark & ugly and it didn't dip off and left the coin obviously suffering from a bad dip job.

How can you tell that this has been cleaned?

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