How old is this PCGS holder?

maddox

Picked this coin up today and im very interested in finding out when PCGS used holders like this. The coin actually rattles around in the holder But the paperwork has some nice toning around the edges, really does, light golden and the coin itself is pinkish coppery...

Whitewashqtr

What you have is a "rattler". The original PCGS holder. First generation. Some people think that coins graded in the beginning were actually undergraded. Which makes rattler's good candidates to upgrade. However, if you send in a rattler, they will reholder it, regardless of the whether it upgrades or not.

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I am wrong. You guys have been doing this much longer than me.

WWQ

numispro

PCGS used that type of holder from the time they started until sometime in 1989. (if memory serves me correctly)

It appears from the color of the coin and the insert, that this slab has been subjected to moisture at some point. They are not waterproof, airtight, or even close to it. I have purchased groups of Twenty Dollar gold pieces in the past that were buried by the owners and have had the holders be full of water and/or condensation.

Nice looking coin for a 63.....

Mike

maddox

Your Kidding, PCGS undergrades.......Geez now Ii've heard everything

maddox

So if I put this holder in a bag with some sulphur it would make the coin tone even more....

I think the coin will make the 64 grade.

Dog97

That slab dates between 1986-89.

Elcontador

Agree w Dog re the holder's age.

BTW, chances are, if it's still in its original 1st generation holder, don't bother trying to upgrade the coin. The PQ material was cracked out long ago.

MAULUMALL

<< <i>Agree w Dog re the holder's age.

BTW, chances are, if it's still in its original 1st generation holder, don't bother trying to upgrade the coin. The PQ material was cracked out long ago. >>



I don't know if I agree so much with that statement.They seem to bring a prem. over a newer slab in my experiance.

fivecents

maddox,
You can still find alot of upgrades in PCGS 1st and 2nd generation holders on the market today.



Paul

Conder101

But you won't find very many second generation holders.

Dog97

Or 2nd gen Sample Slabs.

prooflike

Also, it probably isn't worth the slab fees/shipping to upgrade it, a common date Morgan 63 to 64 isn't that big of a price jump.

quarterjack

Maddox, i have several Walkers in the 1st gen. rattler holders. A couple have developed some nice toning.
Good luck on the sulpher experiment.

Dave

Coppernicus

I've got at least 20 early Lincolns in the "rattler" holder and despite common assumptions, I believe that, on average, the coins are fairly graded (i.e. no guartantee of an upgrade due to current "looser" standards, at least on copper!)

MAULUMALL

Coppernicus
I have never seen any copper in the old holders(1st Gen).
got any pics

Elcontador

Maulumall -

I have seen plenty of Unc. 19th & early 20th Century type coins in 1st generation holders. IMO, most people that would pay a premium for these coins do not know how to grade them. I stand by my earlier statement.

Coppernicus

MAULUMALL - No pics right now - I'm still trying to snipe a nice digital camera over on ebay. I can tell you that I do have over 20 early Lincolns in the "rattlers" and the 1918 MS65 is a true delight!! It may be a 66 but I haven't yet pulled the trigger to send it to PCGS for an upgrade consideration. The 1909-P in MS 65 is similar and may be a 66/67 lurking! I have several, however, that I consider borderline (my 1924-P in MS64 is probably fairly graded) and I have some others that might be overgraded. That's why I said before that, on average, I think the "rattlers" are fairly graded.

MAULUMALL

<< <i>Maulumall -

I have seen plenty of Unc. 19th & early 20th Century type coins in 1st generation holders. IMO, most people that would pay a premium for these coins do not know how to grade them. I stand by my earlier statement. >>



I hope it didn't come across as an attack on what you said.
It really wasn't.
My experience with older holdered coins was a Boone graded ms65 and regraded 66,and a ms65 Texas that I have every confidence will upgrade to 66 as well.
In fact when a pic was posted by Lucy and we did a guess the grade,Mr Hall's opinion was that it was a 66.

Again No offense meant.


edited to add........These were bought on Ebay last year.

Dog97

The undergraded coins in the old 1st gen holders were Morgans, WL Halves, Mercury Dimes, mostly, the hot investment coins of the 80s.
They do not all magically upgrade 1 or 2 points. PCGS was conservative on the low end for the grade coins so unless it is a PQ coin don't bother. In other words if it was a lowend 66 they called it a 65.
All the good ones have already been cracked out and what you see on ebay & @ shows are picked over culls.
You still see plenty old holders but they are graded right or are coins such as common O Mint Morgans in the 60-63 grade that are only worth $10-20 more in the next higher grade so there is no point in cracking them out.
I never got an upgrade on a 1st gen commem.

Placid

I got a downgrade on one. 62-58

Whitewashqtr

I disagree that all the rattler's that are good have already been cracked out. If that were true.. would you say that all raw coins couldnt be high end because they would have already been slabbed? I am not saying that all rattlers would upgrade, but they do trade at a premium for a reason.

The Morgan that was shown in the MS63 slab certainly would upgrade. Whether it is worth the value or not is not the issue.

I recently bought a 1937-S Washington PCGS MS66 in a rattler that stands a good chance to upgrade. It is almost just as nice as those NGC MS68*'s that you are seeing go for $12k and up!! It is definitely a PQ coin!!

Many coins that started in the rattler holders possibly could be with the original submitter.

Elcontador

I'm 100% in agreement with Dog on this. I have a few first generation coins. A Merc is a fairly graded FB 5, and I have a toned SLQ in FH 5 which MAY upgrade when if and when the holy war on toned coins ends.

I would not submit any RD Lincoln cents under any circumstances right now. An East Coast dealer I know showed me 10 1914 S cents he got back, all slabbed RD 4 from PCGS at a recent Long Beach Show. He was really p***ed-off, and when I looked at the coins, I couldn't blame him.