I. D. I. O. T. #2

pontiacinf · February 5, 2003 10:32PM

Re: Question for seller -- Item #3005504545

THAT 16-D IS FAKE...

Subj: Re: Question for seller -- Item #3005504545
Date: 2/5/03 6:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
From: phoenix55@mindspring.com
To: pontiacinf@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)

I guess the five individuals that have bid on it so far don't agree with
you, but even a pinhead is entitled to an opinion.
Is there anything else intelligent you would like to offer?
I didn't think so!

Further messages blocked. THE CLOWNS FAKE 16-D

jeffnpcb · February 5, 2003 10:36PM

Is that the one listed on the header as a 1916-d, but in the description it says 1916 and shows only the obverse? I think I bid on that item, then sent him an email about this issue and he rejected my bid as I had asked him in my message!

It should be removed promptly if that is the coin in question!

hughesm1 · February 5, 2003 10:55PM

Fixed link to Fake 16-D

Coppernicus · February 5, 2003 11:17PM

I just sent the seller an email questioning the shape, placement and wear of the mintmark. I wait with baited breath for his/her intelligent, numismatic reply.

I rarely send these kind of emails, since I figure I'm mostly a "buyer beware" type, but every once in a while, I HAVE to speak out. Look at the bidding! Someone is going to have a horrible collecting experience and may soon become an EX-collector.

wingedliberty · February 5, 2003 11:36PM

I agree.

Brian.

pontiacinf · February 5, 2003 11:46PM

I WISH SOMEONE would bid and then withdraw due to its fakeness...

pontiacinf · February 5, 2003 11:46PM

but i already started a fight with him

coinguy1 · February 5, 2003 11:55PM

What do you guys think about sending the bidders a link to this thread? Would that be a violation of Ebay policy?

coppercoins · February 6, 2003 12:28AM

Who cares about policy when there is obvious deception going on? Tell me what to do and how to do it and consider it done. I don't use eBay anyhow.

coppercoins · February 6, 2003 12:32AM

Just sent the following to the high bidder:

I belong to a group on the internet dedicated to helping collectors, and we have been posting back and forth about the 1916D dime you are bidding on. The folks who know the series very well have deemed the coin to be a fake due to all kinds of things wrong with the way it looks in the seller's images.

We thought you should see this...

<a href="http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=164513&STARTPAGE=1">Coin Universe thread about the coin you are bidding on</a>

redhott · February 6, 2003 12:33AM

All of this sellers items include a payment surcharge for PayPal credit card purchase, which is in violation of eBay rules. Complaint filed with eBay, but may take 36 hours.

MadMarty · February 6, 2003 12:36AM

I sent the seller some questions:

<< <i>What is your return policy if the coin is not origional? If it is
submitted for grading and comes back not genuine, will you take it back? Are you a member of the ANA? Sorry for all the questions, but with the amount of fake 16-Ds out there, you need to be careful. >>

This is the answer:
I'm a private collector and I bought the coin as is and I'm selling it the same way. Good luck if you decide to bid.

What a jerk!

redhott · February 6, 2003 12:48AM

pontiacinf:
That used to be a good way to pass on this type of info to the other bidders, but eBay's retraction procedure got changed at some point. Now, instead of being able to type in your reason for retracting, you may only choose from a pull down list of 3 pre-prepared explanations, so that no one will know the REAL reason!!

1956Quarter · February 6, 2003 1:02AM

Looks like Duke Nukem's brother bid on it...

. This will be interesting indeed.....

dorkkarl · February 6, 2003 1:10AM

how does this compare to (1) the infamous harold epic and (2) roxana?

K S

JeffinMich · February 6, 2003 1:55AM

High bidder is Scumnuker.....LOL. Great eBay handle.

banknote1 · February 6, 2003 1:57AM

Did anyone go to ebay's safe harbor and inform ebay of the coin being faked?????

pontiacinf · February 6, 2003 1:58AM

thank god you guys agree...that clown called me a pinhead and then blocked me...at least let me thank ya for the nickname

dorkkarl · February 6, 2003 2:03AM

question: is there something wrong w/ the andale counters on some ebay items? i've seen a couple now where the counter was "1", but there were like 10 bids. how can that happen?

K S

Russ · February 6, 2003 2:04AM

Karl,

I've been having problems with the counters in my auctions for a couple weeks now.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl · February 6, 2003 2:04AM

man, i am losing it. somebody already made this suggestion. sorry!

K S

edited to remove : ok, 2d question: couldn't somebody place a bid, then retract it, & give the reason, that it's a fake?

Russ · February 6, 2003 2:05AM

Karl,

Not anymore. Ebay now only provides three stock reasons for bid retractions, no more entering your own.

Russ, NCNE

dorkkarl · February 6, 2003 2:09AM

are you serious? what're they trying to do to people???

THAT SUCKS SACAGAWEENIE

K S

dwood · February 6, 2003 2:25AM

I'd like to propose a portrait of scumnuker for the obverse of an upcomig commemorative. The reverse could be a collage of the "scumfamily" of crime fighters through the years?

Steve27 · February 6, 2003 2:27AM

My guess, based on this guy's eBay history, is that he doesn't believe the coin is a fake. Why else would he provide such nice pictures?

dwood · February 6, 2003 2:40AM

I wonder what scumnuker's max is?

I don't know if I can make a judgement based on this guy's feedback. He's only sold a handfull of items, and he only has 16 total feedback. Hard to reach a solid conclusion from that.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt though, and would do so here as well. If he really didn't know, he should be getting an indication now. And I can't see why any honest seller would have a proplem offering a "certification return" that would refund the buyer's bid if the coin were to be certified as a fake.

Will be fun to watch.

cosmicdebris · February 6, 2003 2:59AM

Refference image:

Russ · February 6, 2003 3:18AM

I just sent eBay the following eMail:

<< <i>To quote from this seller's auction: "If paying with PayPal using a credit card, which causes a charge to the seller, then there is a $10 charge."

This is clearly a violation of both eBay's and PayPal's TOS. >>

If enough of us do the same, I think we can get this shut down.

Russ, NCNE

Coppernicus · February 6, 2003 3:20AM

Great post cosmic! Now if that seller has looked in here (link was provided to him/her), then there is no excuse for keeping that fake listed. Unless of course, a) he/she believes they have a new die state; or b) they are a total FRAUD!!!

goose3 · February 6, 2003 3:53AM

Let's just hope this guy doesn't join and end up having another KinKoin.

DCAMFranklin · February 6, 2003 4:14AM

<< <i>I wonder what scumnuker's max is?

I don't know if I can make a judgement based on this guy's feedback. He's only sold a handfull of items, and he only has 16 total feedback. Hard to reach a solid conclusion from that.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt though, and would do so here as well. If he really didn't know, he should be getting an indication now. And I can't see why any honest seller would have a proplem offering a "certification return" that would refund the buyer's bid if the coin were to be certified as a fake.

Will be fun to watch. >>

Dwood- He has 30 positive transactions, not 16. 14 of them are "private" items with id: globalflix. Porno flix, I would guess. His selling auction numbers are such that he may never have sold a coin before??

Mikey · February 6, 2003 4:21AM

You cannot report fraud unless you are a bidder.

Mikey · February 6, 2003 4:26AM

This item has been reported to ebay already.

redhott · February 6, 2003 4:39AM

Possible scenario (expensive for him) that seller overlooked: winning buyer pays with PayPal, claims not genuine and gets all his money back from PayPal, not the seller who refuses to make the refund. Seller also gets to enjoy his PayPal account being frozen for investigaton. Seller gets stuck with PayPal fee. Seller stuck with big, big eBay fee also, since final price is so surprisingly(!!!) high, then files NPB alert with eBay to get back the fee, except buyer contests it and argues fraud. eBay insists seller have coin authenticated in order to win argument. Authentication fails, result is added or tooled mintmark, seller then also out that fee. End result, seller out PayPal fee, eBay fee, and authentication fee plus postage both ways. After waiting for three years to try selling his mistake, seller ends up with more money than ever invested, but coin gets confiscated by law enforcement. ouch! Possible future legal expenses await seller. ouch! ouch!! ouch!!!

pontiacinf · February 6, 2003 4:44AM

constitution states I can give anyone any nickname i want. Just as this clown can voice his opinion:

To provide a more polite response to your comments.
I am a casual collector. I bought this coin 2 years ago
as is and am selling it under the same terms. To be far
to any buyer, I am providing high resolution pictures
of the coin so they can judge for themself. There have
been several bidders on the coin, many of which have
an extensive bidding history on Ebay suggesting some
experience in coins.
My quesion to you, why are you getting involved in this
issue and what are your qualifications?

BTW, I am aware of the posts you have made on Collector Universe
some of which border on libel, so be careful in what you say.

cosmicdebris · February 6, 2003 4:56AM

Thanks Coppernicus, this one picture says it all.

dwood · February 6, 2003 5:00AM

Yeah,
That picture pretty much removes any doubt. And I'm not even a MercHead.

I bet if you look close enough, there's also a "VDB" on it somewhere?

Coppernicus · February 6, 2003 6:00AM

Just got an email from the seller. I quote:

"Mint marks in Mercury dimes happen to vary quite a bit in location. I have a full set and for example, the 1928D mint mark is exactly where the 1916D is, and the 1928D is fairly common, so I don't think anyone would bother to counterfeit it. So, unless you have several other good quality 1916D's for comparison, the location of the mint mark doesn;t mean much. As to the shape, I think that is largely explained by excess wear on the outer edge of the D."

At least he/she was polite to me. I STILL don't think his 16-D is authentic, though.

kieferscoins · February 6, 2003 6:03AM

One counterfeit detection article.

Cameron Kiefer

cosmicdebris · February 6, 2003 8:28AM

The picture I posted is from a 1916 D. ( It is from one of the PCGS Registry Sets )

Russ · February 6, 2003 10:52AM

Seller caught on to scumnuker and cancelled his bid. But, this_coin_is_ripoff has stepped in!

Russ, NCNE

K6AZ · February 6, 2003 10:53AM

Hmm... looks like another interesting bidder has placed a bid on this unquestionably fake 16-D.

danglen · February 6, 2003 11:02AM

I see that "scumthumper", aka "this-coin-is-a-ripoff" is the high bidder on this item. I have a feeling he will be the high bidder. GREAT JOB, masked man!

danglen · February 6, 2003 11:16AM

There are four varieties of mintmarks on the 1916-D dime. Two of them are doubled punched (RPMs), and two are single punch varieties. The mintmark in on this dime is not located properly to be genuine, nor does it have the shape of a genuine 16-D minntmark. So unless someone has discovered a fifth variety, this is an added mintmark.

abmluce · February 6, 2003 11:40AM

Also for the seller to grade it G+?????? Reverse is AG, obverse borderline good.

gmarguli · February 6, 2003 11:49AM

i]What do you guys think about sending the bidders a link to this thread? Would that be a violation of Ebay policy?

Yes it is a violation of eBay rules. Anything that might prevent them from getting their final value fees is a violation. It doens't matter if you are preventing fraud. The only fraud eBay cares about is users that don't pay them.

Just create an email account at MANY of the free sites and register. No need to risk your main eBay ID.

coindaughter · February 6, 2003 11:54AM

Thanks for the pix, cosmicdebris. It really shows why this coin is a fake...even to those of us with ZERO experience!

Good thread!

Merc · February 6, 2003 12:05PM

I posted this coin a few days ago but few noticed. Many fakes look closer to real than this one. This is a super easy one to see. I wonder what technique was used to make the D. I looks almost like it was chased on because it is so crude. I've seen glued on ones that look better

Coppernicus · February 6, 2003 12:15PM

gmarguli and others - The SELLER has been provided the link to this thread (see p. 1). I received an email from the seller defending the coin (not a believable defense!) As to ebay "violations" - who cares?

We're numismatists screaming.......FRAUD!!!

K6AZ · February 6, 2003 1:19PM

Seems to me what happened here is the guy got stuck with a bogus 16-D, and now he is trying to stick it on someone else. He knows it is a phoney, you can tell by the way he worded his response. And I really like the way that he, as most sheisters in the coin business do, threaten a libel suit to anyone who dares to expose their fraud. I am less than 150 miles from him, in VA, so if he wants to sue me bring it on.

dorkkarl · February 7, 2003 12:30AM

fyi, 2 of my buddies & i have still received no reply from this seller. all we did was ask what the refund policy would be if it turns out fake.

K S

I. D. I. O. T. #2

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