83 CC Ultra Cam

maddox · February 3, 2003 11:35AM

I sure hope that I didn't get burned on this one, but everything looks fine, post from other members was positive. As soon as I get my greedy little hands on it, off it goes for slabing, I post results after that. This is one of those examples of " I just have to have it, no matter what" ending price was $285.00, Looks like a MS64 to me, any other thoughts on the grade.

Cam40 · February 3, 2003 11:41AM

Assuming everything checks out, MS64DMPL would be my guess.
Who are you sending it to?PCGS?

wingedliberty · February 3, 2003 11:43AM

64DMPL, despite what appear to be fingerprints, I think you'll get the grade.
Heck of a nice coin!

Brian.

braddick · February 3, 2003 11:46AM

Neat coin but have NCS currate those obverse and reverse prints first. They don't look like they've fouled the coin and should come off fairly easily.
With that you have an absolutely winner coin- full DMPL and very choice surfaces (the few marks are more easily "forgiven" on DMPL Morgans-).

Placid · February 3, 2003 11:52AM

Is the seller located in Hawaii and a Yahoo auction?
Just curious because I think there was a thread on this one already.
One of the better Morgan posters here thought it was good judging by the photo.

maddox · February 3, 2003 11:59AM

Yes, there was a prior posting about this coin, Thats how I found out about it. I would not have purchased it, but the feedback on the prior post got me to thinking....

Now all I have to deal with are those fingerprints...

Placid · February 3, 2003 12:04PM

I don't know if they can be dealt with without killing the mirrors.
I guess it depends how long they have been there.

abuell · February 3, 2003 12:48PM

It's got enough fingerprints that PCGS is sure to love it - unless they deduct for fingerprints that aren't theirs.

dragon · February 3, 2003 1:36PM

abuell,,,,,,,,,you're bad!

Cam40 · February 3, 2003 2:59PM

lol. i think they do.

about having it NCS`ed,I hope they wouldnt see their way to kill the mirrors to fix the fingerprints.
I could live with the prints better than a dead looking coin.

michael · February 3, 2003 3:34PM

the fingerprints are very bothersome for mee

otherwise from the photos and i would need to see the coin in person sight seen to make an accurate accessment but a guesstimate from the photos ms64 dmpl but i can tell that the coin will look better from the photo and worse when sight seen

sincerely michael

the seller tilted rotated the coin/camera just the right way in the photo to catch the coin at its maximum photogenic advantage

sincerely michael

michael · February 3, 2003 3:37PM

with cc dollars being hot and this coin a dmpl even at 285 raw i think you are safe and for the most part wont get hurt at all

even if you deside to sell the coin raw at a show me thinks you can get most if not all of your money back

and then a great learning experience at little to no charge!

sincerely michael

maddox · February 3, 2003 10:56PM

Any thougths on who to submitt to for grading,PCGS, ANACS etc...

dorkkarl · February 3, 2003 11:43PM

sorry to be a wet-blanket - i'm suspicious. i bet: altered surfaces.

but usual disclaimer: this opinion based on a digi-pic

K S

dragon · February 3, 2003 11:58PM

<<>>

dorkkarl,

I'll take that bet, how about $500.00 that PCGS holders that coin, and I'm going by that same pic you are.

dragon

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 12:29AM

i stand by my rule to spend $$$ sight-seen ONLY. you'd have to offer a $500 refund in case i don't like the outcome!!!

K S

dragon · February 4, 2003 12:33AM

Exactly what I thought all along................

ALL TALK AND FRIVOLOUS OPINIONS & STATEMENTS, NOT WILLING TO BACK IT UP

Ok, I'll make it easy, how about the loser pays the PCGS grading fees???

maddox · February 4, 2003 3:47AM

Hey, you two can bet on my coins all day long, especially if want to pay for my slabbing fee's

Any side bets as to grade?

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 4:01AM

<< Exactly what I thought all along................ ALL TALK AND FRIVOLOUS OPINIONS & STATEMENTS, NOT WILLING TO BACK IT UP >>

amazing new concept, dragon. it now takes money to "back up" opinions. how did you come up w/ that?

<< the loser pays the PCGS grading fees??? >>

you got that right!!!

K S

greghansen · February 4, 2003 4:14AM

63DMPL. Market graded down a notch for the multiple prints. I've never submitted to NCS, but I think this coin would be a good candiate. I understand they will contact you with an assesment before they do any work. I understand fingerprints to be one of the things they are most successful with, if the prints havn't etched into the surfaces already. I hope you've read 'Skip' Fazzari's recent article on fingerprints. I think they ran it in Coinworl a few weeks back. Just in case, here's the link from the NCS site:

Link-a-roo-ski for fingerprint article

I think an NCS assesment is the way I would go with the coin, with a follow up slabbing @ NGC.

dragon · February 4, 2003 4:21AM

dorkkarl,

How I came up with that is basically you are constantly telling everyone here how all bright and vividly toned Morgan dollars are AT'd which is complete nonsense,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,now you have clearly stated that this coin in question has "altered surfaces".

I am looking at the same pic as you are, and I say it does not have altered surfaces. Now you are skirting the issue, and my offer, and not even willing to put up a measly 30.00 to back your opinion.

I'm sure any number of forum members here would be willing to hold the money in anticipation of the outcome from PCGS.

well??????

dragon

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 5:39AM

<< now you have clearly stated that this coin in question has "altered surfaces". >>

dragon, it is not very honest for you to mis-quote me. what i said was (quoted) "i bet: altered surfaces. but usual disclaimer: this opinion based on a digi-pic" & i assumed that a reasonable person would know that i am saying that my assertion might very well be wrong due to the constraints of a digital image. i am sorry if you failed to get that out of my disclaimer - it is now spelled out for you.

<< How I came up with that is basically you are constantly telling everyone here how all bright and vividly toned Morgan dollars are AT'd which is complete nonsense,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, >>

ohhhh, so THAT's why your upset. you are mad that i actually DEFEND my position!

recall that i ALSO believe that arguing the a-t point is pointless w/out stating YOUR def'n of artificial toning. so dragon, where IS your def'n of a-t? do ya have one? 'cause, it sure is easy to just stab fingers at others & accuse them of nonsense when you yourself have failed to define a position for others to criticize. at least i have the guts to make a stance & defend it.

if you don't understand something, like, oh i don't know, MY def'n of a-t, why not just ask?

<< I am looking at the same pic as you are, and I say it does not have altered surfaces. Now you are skirting the issue, and my offer, and not even willing to put up a measly 30.00 to back your opinion. >>

YOU claim that it takes money to back up one's opinion, not me. YOU are skirting the issue by refusing to define your position! why does it need to be defined in terms of money??? that's silly.

<< I'm sure any number of forum members here would be willing to hold the money in anticipation of the outcome from PCGS. well?????? >>

why are you obsessed w/ money?

K S

edited to tone down

dragon · February 4, 2003 8:41AM

So I guess that means no huh?

dragon

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 9:30AM

<< So I guess that means no huh? >>

as in "no" you're not going to defend your position? why not???

K S

dragon · February 4, 2003 9:38AM

No, it means 'no' as in dorkkarl is good at making useless long winded posts with very limited numismatic knowledge IMO, especially regarding toned coins, and is is constantly offering opinions that are totally false,,,,,,,,,and when someone finally calls him on one of his opinions and puts him to the challenge, he won't even put up a paultry 30.00 to back up his statements and/or opinions. That's what I meant as in 'no'

dragon

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 10:05AM

<< No, it means 'no' as in dorkkarl is good at making useless long winded posts with very limited numismatic knowledge IMO, especially regarding toned coins, >>

i have never denied having very limited numismatic knowledge! i freely admit it!

<< and is is constantly offering opinions that are totally false >>

so you are saying that "opinions" can be "false"? now dragon-buddy, do you REALLY think that makes sense? are you saying "opinions" are "facts"? correct me if i'm wrong, but only "facts" can be proven as true or false, right? how do you "prove" an opinion is false? an "opinion" is an expression of how someone feels at a certain time about a certain subject! don't you realize how nutty your statement is?

<< ,,,,,,,,,and when someone finally calls him on one of his opinions and puts him to the challenge he won't even put up a paultry 30.00 to back up his statements and/or opinions. >>

so answer a very simple question - simple because it requires only a "yes" or "no" answer from you:

do you (dragon) believe that an opinion must be backed up w/ money to be valid?

<< That's what I meant as in 'no' >>

'no' sir, it isn't. what you 'meant' was: you've given up on trying to discuss, in a rational fashion, any of the topics that YOU presented, because you are too afraid to present a position that just might get criticized. & therefore, you've desperately resorted to some sort of financial ploy to try & trip me up. sorry, fella, it won't work. that is playground tactics.

if you want to discuss points that YOU presented, then backed away from, i'd be happy to.

K S

Elcontador · February 4, 2003 10:07AM

1) The fingerprints will not cause the coin to be downgraded at any of
the major services, though they may affect the coin's resale value.

2) How the coin grades will depend on how severe the contact marks are on
Miss Liberty's face; remember, the major grading services cut a little
slack to CC $s because they had to be transported in bags by
stagecoach to San Francisco. I could not get a good enough view of
Miss Liberty's face to comment further in this matter.

3) I prefer the reverse of the coin to the obverse, which is not a good
thing, as the obverse "carries the coin."

4) PL surfaces tend to magnify any imperfections (I have an '83 Seated
Half in 5, so I know about these things). For this reason, I would
be very paranoid re trying to remove the prints on this coin.

What would it cost you to ship it to NCS & get an opinion from them re
fingerprint removal?

Nic · February 4, 2003 10:25AM

The coin has original surfaces and the fingerprints do not appear severe enough to downgrade. I'd send to PCGS...should 64dmpl. If I were keeping the coin I would leave it alone. If selling via Ebay, I'd dip it. Nice coin/price. K

maddox · February 4, 2003 11:00AM

Lets get ready to RRRHUMBLEEE. in this corner we have "dragon" and in the other corner we have "dorkkarl".............They come out swinging wildly, dragon leads with a swift pcgs slab to the chin, dorkkarl counters with a relentless verbal assault......blah blah blah..................

While I respect each of your individual posts, this topic was about a 83 CC.

Will you pa-lease give it a rest.............

dragon · February 4, 2003 11:37AM

maddox,

Ok here's all you need to know........it's a high end 63/low end 64 DMPL 83-CC with decent but not great contrast and light prints, worth about 170.00 - 200.00 because the mirrors are very deep. The prints will not come off completely but may be able to be made less noticable. I don't see any reason why PCGS wouldn't holder it, that's about the long and short of it on that coin.

Of greater importance is trying to get one of the forum trolls to finally actually back one of his 'opinions' with a friendly little wager, which he seems to be unwilling to do for some odd reason, and is skirting my challenge with more nonsense. I can only assume it is because he himself has zero confidence in his own 'opinions' and statements and simply enjoys spreading around totally absurd, long winded, cut and paste replies regarding the grading services, his opinions on toned coins, etc.

dragon

dorkkarl · February 4, 2003 6:52PM

<< Will you pa-lease give it a rest............. >>

maddox, i apologize, but i have to defend myself. i honestly think you can go back & see that dragon started this, for reasons completely unknown. insecurity maybe???

<< Ok here's all you need to know........it's a high end 63/low end 64 DMPL 83-CC with decent but not great contrast and light prints, worth about 170.00 - 200.00 because the mirrors are very deep. The prints will not come off completely but may be able to be made less noticable. I don't see any reason why PCGS wouldn't holder it, that's about the long and short of it on that coin. >>

well-stated, YOUR opinion. maddox, in MY opinion, the coin has scuff marks on the cheek which, based strictly on the digi-pic, appear to be "glossed over". ie. the "scratches" are somehow "frosted". that might indicate artificial frosting. for dragon's sake, i might very well be wrong, since i don't have the benefit of seeing the coin in-hand.

<< Of greater importance is trying to get one of the forum trolls to finally actually back one of his 'opinions' with a friendly little wager ... I can only assume it is because he himself has zero confidence in his own 'opinions' >>

dragon, you still fail to explain why you think opinions must be backed up w/ money! real confidence is shown by willingness to take a public stance, & defend it.

it is not fair for dragon to drag down this otherwise excellent thread. dragon, if you want to discuss further, start a new thread, & make the title "dorkkarl is a forum troll", or something like that, & i will gladly respond there. but before you do, think of something sensible to write. so far, your comments have been laughable.

K S

83 CC Ultra Cam

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