When you buy a PCGS coin, do you expect it to be original?

OnlyBuffalos

A coin is for sale at auction by a major coin dealer in a PCGS holder. All sales are final. You win the coin and when you receive it, the coin has obviously been cleaned. Should the auctioneer have indicated that the coin was cleaned? What recourse does the buyer have if the auctioneer fails to do so? Will a reputable auctioneer take the coin back? What is PCGS' responsibility in this?

SageRad

I expect the coin to be not cleaned.

coinkat

I'll spare everyone the o/s original surfaces designation that should be used by the grading services lecture... Good question with no clear cut answer. If you participated in person and saw the coin before bidding, I'm not sure there is much that you can do. On the other hand, if this was done by mail or by means whereby there could be no visual inspection of the coin first, that may change things. What was disclosed in the auction catalog with respect to grading/originality of coins and viewing prior to the auction? What was stated about a return policy? Finally, what service, if any, was offered prior to the auction with respect to the Auction House fielding questions that participants/bidders may have about the coins that were to be auctioned? I would assemble the facts quickly...

DHeath

When you buy a PCGS coin, do you expect it to be original?

No, I expect it to look original.

darktone

no, but I sure wish they were all original. mike

truthteller

I have seen many lightly cleaned coins in both PCGS and NGC holders. Usually, they are nicely toned coins with light underlying whiping or old hairline cleaning. For early 19th c. proofs, light cleaning is very commonplace.

TRUTH

ARCO

Holdered or Raw, I expect the seller to disclose a cleaning. Dipping? hmmm that is usually not disclosed and seems to be the grey area, especially because it is beyond the ability of many people to definitely distinguish.

Cleaned with problems or hairlines absolutely. If they are distracting to you, they will be to another discriminating collector. The great flaw in the PCGS, NGC, ANACS slabbing model is that sh*tty, cleaned coins are holdered which makes buying sight unseen still a minefield of risk.

Tyler

Conder101

In the early years of slabbing all of the major services made promices that they would NOT slab cleaned or problem coin and that only origina coins would be encapsulated. (Except ANACS which used net grading and which would encapsulate and grade but would mention the problems and downgrade the coin for them.) As time passed and everyone started insisting that all of their coins be certified, and as submissions started going down standards changed. Lightly dipped or lightly cleaned rare coins started showing up in slabs. Then less rare coins started getting this preferential treatment, more AT coins started showing up. Now even lightly cleaned common coins can be seen and more harshly cleaned scarce coins are showing up. In the truely rare coins even tooled or repaired pieces are sometimes being slabbed. The slabbing concept is slowly degrading back down to the point of the raw coins that it was meant to replace. With raw coins before slabs you had to learn how to grade for yourself to be able to protect yourself in the market. Today you still need to learn to grade to protect yourself in the market because the coins in the slabs can be just as bad as buying raw, but the market is now numbers driven rather than coin driven,

BillJones

The short answer is NO. I expect that most any silver coin that is more than 50 years old that has not spent most of its existence in a mint bag that has white surfaces has been dipped. The same goes for many copper coins that have been mildly worked on to make them have more red. Sadly people are playing with gold coins too although I can’t see the point in that in over 90% of the cases.

Unfortunately despite all the claims by collectors that they want original coins, many undipped silver coins are not very saleable. Only a small percentage of silver coins take on the toning that so many people now love. The rest tone in ways that many collectors find unappealing.

If every coin that has been dipped could not be slabbed, there would far fewer coins for us to collect.

MacCoin

No 70% of the coins you buy are cleaned.

TomB

I don't necessarily expect them to be original since many coins that are not completely original are already in slabs. As for returning the coin to the auctioneer, I presume that you had to personally or electronically sign an agreement and waiver in order to bid on the lot. These agreements and waivers are typically quite long, approximately 30-40 paragraphs in length, and spell out your rights that are retained and waived. You most likely waived your right to return the coin because you bid in an "auction" and not in an "approval sale". This is something to consider when bidding in auctions and you should adjust your bids accordingly.

paigowjohnny

I expect it to be "market acceptable" for the stated grade....

I recently bought a PCGS AU-55 Morgan that's hairlined all to hell...it HAD to have been cleaned at some point...but I have to believe that's the existing acceptable market standard. (Plus it still has really nice eye appeal)

coynclecter

Theres nothing wrong with a cleaned coin. If you spilled coffee on your collection you would wipe it off wouldnt you. Now if it is harshly cleaned such that the surfaces show hairlines and abrasions then that would be reflected in the grade. If they were severe then it should be marked as "cleaned" which really means "damaged by cleaning". If it not damaged by the cleaning then theres nothing wrong with it.

osirisMMII

<< <i> The slabbing concept is slowly degrading back down to the point of the raw coins that it was meant to replace. With raw coins before slabs you had to learn how to grade for yourself to be able to protect yourself in the market. Today you still need to learn to grade to protect yourself in the market because the coins in the slabs can be just as bad as buying raw, but the market is now numbers driven rather than coin driven, >>




WOW! I can't believe someone is admitting this to be reality! The "ever-evolving" PCGS grading standard is evidence of the above statements. Coins that were next to impossible to make even a year ago are popping out of the woodwork (and I'm not including PR/MS70s in this statement!). When is PCGS gonna get a grip and become consistant? They go from one extreme to the other every third week that ends with a day that has a "y" in it! *ugh* Consistancy dammit!!!!!! Quit exploiting the market The registry has created an ugly monster............ And as long as people buy into it it will continue.

Thanks for the words of wisdom Conder!

dorkkarl

<< <i>A coin is for sale at auction by a major coin dealer in a PCGS holder. All sales are final. >>

the issue is: was the purchase sight-seen. if the buyer accepted the responsibilities that come w/ buying a coin sight-unseen, then he should be stuck w/ the coin.

K S

EVillageProwler

When you buy a PCGS coin, do you expect it to be original?

Yes, and when I buy pork, I expect it to be from a pig that could fly.

To quote Russ: Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

(I hope I spelled that correctly!)

EVP