More high dollar NGC MS68 Washington action.

Russ · January 29, 2003 10:21AM

Teletrade, $12,500 so far. Is it just me, or is that coin butt ugly? Maybe it looks better in person.

Russ, NCNE

Bear · January 29, 2003 10:25AM

Big difference between plain old tarnish and beautiful toning.

No way would I buy that coin.

gmarguli · January 29, 2003 11:39AM

Ugly. I'd pay $3 for it.

Android · January 29, 2003 11:40AM

That is a NASTY looking coin, and I collect Washingtons! To each his own! The 1953 in high grades is a tough coin to come by though.

Andy

EVillageProwler · January 29, 2003 11:43AM

So what we're saying is that the high bidder and the underbidder are Kool-Aid drinkers of a different flavor? The NGC flavor, or the toning flavor? Or, how about the slabaholic flavor?

EVP

Android · January 29, 2003 11:51AM

EVP,

I was thinking the same thing. I certainly think someone is after MS68 plastic. Would you ever spend that kind of money on ANY coin without seeing it first in person? I wonder if it is the same person buying all of these toned MS68's. I haven't seen them showing up in registry sets, either here or across the street.

Andy

Typetone · January 29, 2003 11:54AM

I don't get it, but then whoever is bidding probably doesn't care if I get it or not.

Greg

wondercoin · January 29, 2003 12:01PM

At around $15k/coin, plus a couple hundred thousand additional for the key dates in finest known grade, if prices like this maintain themselves, the silver Wash quarter series (1932-64) becomes a near $1,000,000 - $1,500,000 collection to purchase in top NGC grade.

Maybe the "pop top" Buffalo Nickels are not as expensive as I thought

Hey Laura - want to trade a set of silver Wash quarters for a 1913 Liberty Nickel?!!

Wondercoin

kaleidoscopic · January 29, 2003 12:04PM

I have seen better looking NGC 68's than that. NGC pops show 65 in 67, and 1 in 68 for 53 P. Lately, the buys have shown to be strong on these NGC 68's.

I don't recall a large accumulation of 68's going into the Registry in one set over there. Haven't looked recently. Makes you wonder what better looking ones would bring. Kscope

edited for spelling

EVillageProwler · January 29, 2003 12:39PM

The thought had occurred to me that some people may have viewed the coin during FUN. If so, perhaps the coin really is special, and the image doesn't do it justice. Just a possibility...

EVP

Whitewashqtr · January 29, 2003 12:58PM

Here's one on eBay!! Linky

Why are all MS68's toned? Or most 67's? It s that the toning hides all the crap that's beneath it. Rather have a nice clean coin or at least some soft pretty toning even if the grade is lesser. Some of these 68 coins are crap. ral mud been thrown on them?

Now hears a question maybe you could help me with . Should i resubmit my NGC's for attrtibution. Many are blast white without the "W" or "*" designations. Is it worth the resubmission and should the even charge me for it? I bought them all before the designations were used. Thanks for the help!!

WWQ

kaleidoscopic · January 29, 2003 1:03PM

WWQ, you can submit to NGC for the * designations. Must be MS/PR 63 or better. The designation review is $10.
kscope

tradedollarnut · January 29, 2003 1:06PM

Hey Laura - want to trade a set of silver Wash quarters for a 1913 Liberty Nickel?!!

I think I can safely retort for the three of us: HELL NO!

Seriously, the classic rarities - if they are of enduring fame - are undervalued compared to the prices top pop coins are bringing. BTW - the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar will be on display at Long Beach next show.

[note: NGC no longer designates coins "W"]

wondercoin · January 29, 2003 1:24PM

"I think I can safely retort for the three of us: HELL NO!"

TDN: YOU DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN - OK - What if I can procure that "monster" 1963 Lincoln in PCGS-PR70DCAM (a $39,000 value??) and possibly toss it into the deal with the Wash quarter set? Are we close?

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut · January 29, 2003 1:38PM

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Maybe - for Laura's share!

gmarguli · January 29, 2003 2:07PM

Here's one on eBay!! Linky

And it's being sold by TeleTrash.

Bikingnut · January 29, 2003 2:12PM

I just couldn't see myself buying that coin. I agree, it is but ugly. Why are all the 67's and 68's toned? Another question is would they be a 67 or 68 if they had no tone?

wondercoin · January 29, 2003 3:13PM

"Here's one on eBay!! Linky

And it's being sold by TeleTrash. "

I seem to recall in last Sunday's auction this 52(s) did not sell? That's pretty fast to have the coin up on ebay?

Wondercoin

braddick · January 29, 2003 3:35PM

Natcoin is Teletrade, or at least some division of it.

Legend · January 29, 2003 6:32PM

At that price, I have to wonder if this coin has a real bid of if its a greedy dealers reserve.

Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
www.legendcoin.com

IrishMike · January 29, 2003 7:16PM

It appears that someone is unloading a high end collection on Teletrade the past week along with a collection of quarter varieties. Anyway some nice coins came on the market, but this one ouch, I don't find it attractive at all and with that price. All I can say is you gotta be kidding.

wondercoin · January 29, 2003 11:57PM

"At that price, I have to wonder if this coin has a real bid of if its a greedy dealers reserve."

Laura: Actually, many of these coins ARE showing up in NGC Registry set(s) following the sales

I did not see this 1953(P) Washington Quarter, but for nearly $14,000 with commission, the coin would have to be incredible. And, judging from the 1954(P) which sold for more than $17,000 earlier this month (which I did see), I sincerely doubt that to be the case. But, 1953(p) is a better date than 1954(p) and, as I mentioned before, the "trend" does appear to be an adjustment downward to closer to the $10,000 level (like the 52(s)* coin now on ebay for $10,080 BIN).

Wondercoin.

onlyroosies · January 30, 2003 1:45AM

Here's another Teletrade coin that didn't sell and now show's up on ebay for a ridiculous price by Natcoin. NGC MS68 Dimes (2) They do list two dimes and I was
able to view them at teletrade last week in irvine. the 52D, Sure thats worth maybe a grand. The 58D is a $500 coin at best. I spoke
to them a couple of months ago about the 52D after it did not sell on Teletrade then, and they were not willing to deal. I offered them
at the time $1200 for the 52D or a trade for this coin or even this one.. If there are any other NGC MS68 Roosie buyers out ther I just listed 3 of them on eBay at a more realistic price. I really just wanted to counter natcoins listing and see if they might get the hint that they are a little over priced. Of course this is just my opinion.

Nick

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 2:02AM

Nick: Very fair prices on some nice Roosies and pop 2 and 3 as well! And, if you think about it, the Wash quarters in MS68 probably justify a 2x-5x price jump above the Roosies in MS68 (based upon difficulty of locating Wash quarters in true MS68 vs. Roosies). So, the way I see it, either the NGC Wash quarters are GROSSLY OVERPRICED at current levels ($14K-$18K), or NICK IS GIVING AWAY THESE DIMES WHICH ARE GROSSLY UNDERPRICED ($1K - $1.5K)!!! That's for you to decide

Wondercoin

dbldie55 · January 30, 2003 2:28AM

Price is a function of supply and demand (not how hard it is compared to somthing unrelated). Given what you are saying about dimes, I would say demand is very low.

As for trading a set of quarters for the 1913, happy this didn't happen. I am planning a trip to see the nickel, I would not cross the street to see the quarters.

onlyroosies · January 30, 2003 3:22AM

dbldie, I agree with you 100%. Demand for Roosevelt dimes is low. I love the fact that collectors are not swarming to the Roosevelt
Dime series. I love this coin and at some point in time the Roosevelt dime will have its day. I know of only a handful of people that I
would call a serious collector of Roosevelt dimes. GREAT!!! Availability of choice coins high and price low... My kind of series to collect,
And the fact that I love them makes it even better for me.... And boy do they tone PRETTY...

I think this thread just turned into a Roosie thread

Nick

Colorfulcoins · January 30, 2003 3:59AM

As a collector of BOTH Rosy dimes and Washington Quarters, I do have to agree with both Wondercoin and OnlyRoosies - by comaprison, the "valuations" are skewed.......time will tell if the Quarters are overpriced (probably as I still remember paying $1200-2000 for NGC MS68's just a year ago) or if Rosy dimes are underpriced (probably as only extreme NGC collectors will pay even $1000 for a low pop coin). Are quarters with similar pop's "worth" 10 - 20x the price of dimes? Granted, if you believe the pop reports, the NGC MS68 dimes outnumber the quarters about 4:1 (260 vs 60) so that can account for the generic $300 NGC MS68 Rosy's but it doesn't account for the pop 1-3 dates where there is, today, a 10x + difference.

The "real" litmus test will be comparing PCGS MS68 quarters. None have publically traded hands that I've seen since the NGC68 "boom". Several PCGS MS68 dimes have changed hands at auction at about 1.5x prices from a year ago. So, is this a NGC MS68 phenom, a MS68 grade phenom, or just a washington quarter phenom? Will it last or is it the result of two or more collectors duking it out (quarters)?

Hmmmmm.............

MoneyLA · January 30, 2003 4:01AM

Again I must ask-- how would these NGC MS68 Washingtons be graded by PCGS? And what would that do to their values? cheers, alan mendelson

gmarguli · January 30, 2003 4:15AM

Again I must ask-- how would these NGC MS68 Washingtons be graded by PCGS? And what would that do to their values? cheers, alan mendelson

Again I must ask -- if the coin would only grade MS67 at PCGS, yet the market values an NGC MS68 at multiples of a PCGS MS67, then who got the grade wrong according to the market?

Android · January 30, 2003 4:30AM

I think when asking about paying 10's of thousands of dollars for common date grade rarities, the question should be what is the coin worth with NO holder at all? Answer, not much.

Andy

tradedollarnut · January 30, 2003 4:30AM

In my experience, finest known coins trade for eerily close to the same money irrespective of the holder. (ie: A super duper top end PCGS MS67 will stay off the market until someone is willing to spend close to the same money the coin brings in an NGC MS68 holder - or if put in auction at least two dealers will recognize that it will upgrade and will bid the coin up to near the level it will bring in the next grade.]

IrishMike · January 30, 2003 4:50AM

Alan, I will tell you this I have been paying as much for NGC proofs 36-42 as I have been for PCGS in 67 grades. A nice washington looks just as good in either holder.

onlyroosies · January 30, 2003 5:15AM

Colorfulcoins, I think its a "Registry Set" Phenom. Its all about who wants to be on top. With all this money being paid
for NGC MS68 quarters I'm a little surprised we haven't seen a PCGS MS68 quarter hit the market. I would also bet good
money that there are many dealers scrambling right now trying to make the next PCGS MS68 quarter (and NGC). I think
soon we will see a PCGS 68 wash quarter in a major auction. Thats the only way we will be able to get the new price level
for them. I think the potential for a PCGS 68 wash quarter to hit 25K - 30K is viable. At least today it is. No telling what
tomorrow will bring, Maybe more...Maybe less. One Roosie dime collectors opinion.

Nick

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 7:07AM

"I am planning a trip to see the nickel, I would not cross the street to see the quarters."

And, your overall knowledge of 20th century coins proves that point convincingly

Craig: Excellent analysis on the 4:1 ratio between dimes and quarters - it ties in to my point and suggests a proper range for NGC-MS68 Wash quarters at around $3000 - $6,000. If, and when, NGC-MS68's fall back into this range, I will personally be competing for them.

Wondercoin

dbldie55 · January 30, 2003 7:23AM

<< <i>"I am planning a trip to see the nickel, I would not cross the street to see the quarters."

And, your overall knowledge of 20th century coins proves that point convincingly

>>

You have basically no idea of what knowledge I possess on 20th century coins (or on anything else for that matter). You only know what I feel about collecting them in plastic with really large grading numbers printed on the inserts.

Value does not make something desireable! A coin I consider ugly, but someone else does not, may be "valuable", but certainly not to me. Because I do not feel that high grade modern coins are desireable does not mean I do not know anything about them.

In fact, I would be all for selling them as I would have no interest in keeping them. The problem with things you like going up in value is that the only way to acheive the value is to sell them. Then you can no longer enjoy them.

MoneyLA · January 30, 2003 7:28AM

If these NGC ms68 wondercoins (sorry, Mitch) will not cross as pcgs ms68 coins, then clearly we have a phenomenon of someone buying the plastic and not the coin. Hence, until these coins can cross into pcgs holders they're too much of a gamble -- no matter how nice they might look in their ngc slabs. cheers, alan mendelson

gmarguli · January 30, 2003 7:37AM

If these NGC ms68 wondercoins (sorry, Mitch) will not cross as pcgs ms68 coins, then clearly we have a phenomenon of someone buying the plastic and not the coin. Hence, until these coins can cross into pcgs holders they're too much of a gamble -- no matter how nice they might look in their ngc slabs. cheers, alan mendelson

Or these coins are MUCH nicer than the standard PCGS/NGC MS67, but not as nice as a PCGS MS68.

Or they are as nice as a PCGS MS68, yet PCGS will not allow them to cross.

Or they are as nice as a PCGS MS68, yet PCGS will not allow any more MS68s for these coins for political reasons.

Or, as you said, they are buying the plastic.

And, if they were in PCGS slabs, wouldn't that be buying the plastic? After all, the "NGC gabmle" is gone, but it is the same coin, so you are buying the plastic, just a different coor plastic.

tradedollarnut · January 30, 2003 7:41AM

When was the last time a coin minted for circulation crossed from an NGC 68 holder to a PCGS 68 holder. I'd really like to know. Someone? Anyone? Hello......?

Just because it doesn't cross doesn't mean the coin isn't MS68.

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 7:44AM

"You have basically no idea of what knowledge I possess on 20th century coins (or on anything else for that matter). You only know what I feel about collecting them in plastic with really large grading numbers printed on the inserts."

Dbldie55: If you wouldn't "walk across the street" to examine one of the finest sets of Wash quarters on the planet, I think that speak volumes as to the extent of your 20th century coin knowledge and your desire to improve it - doesn't it? Or, can one learn as much in books as seeing coins in person?

Wondercoin

********
P.S. The wonderfully colored 1939(s) Wash quarter from the FUN auction upgraded to PCGS-MS67 on the first submission - I just got the result. You guys may remember, that is the coin the "Wash quarter expert" stated had zero chance to upgrade. I guess it is worth the $1800 I paid for the MS66 holder

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut · January 30, 2003 7:52AM

Mitch: it depends. There are plenty of series in the 20th century that I would walk across the street to see the finest set, but I wouldn't do so for SBA's. Does that speak volumes about my 20th century knowledge or coin collecting desire?

IrishMike · January 30, 2003 7:52AM

Mitch the 39-S was in what holder when it was a 66?

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 7:54AM

"Mitch: it depends. There are plenty of series in the 20th century that I would walk across the street to see the finest set, but I wouldn't do so for SBA's. Does that speak volumes about my 20th century knowledge or coin collecting desire? "

TDN: Yes it does speak volumes about your GOOD TASTE in 20th Century coinage and your ability to manage time.

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 7:56AM

"When was the last time a coin minted for circulation crossed from an NGC 68 holder to a PCGS 68 holder. I'd really like to know. Someone? Anyone? Hello......?

Just because it doesn't cross doesn't mean the coin isn't MS68. "

Answer: PAT BRADDICK- THE YEAR WAS 2001. He successfully crossed a 1995(d) Kenedy Half Dollar from NGC-MS68 to PCGS-MS68.

Mike: That was the 1939(s) Wash quarter in PCGS-MS66 from the FUN auctions. It was discussed on a thread the other day, which I brought to the top.

Wondercoin

tradedollarnut · January 30, 2003 8:07AM

Two years ago? What's that worth, a hundred or so?

How about a silver coin minted for circulation? Of any significant value. Has it EVER happened? Or is it just one of those coin collecting urban myths?

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 8:13AM

"Two years ago? What's that worth, a hundred or so?"

TDN: Actually, it is a much more valuable coin - but, I know - you wouldn't walk across the street for Kennedys either

I'll have to think about your SILVER coin question. Wondercoin.

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 8:15AM

TDN: Got it! A silver war nickel crossing to PCGS-MS68FS from NCG-MS68FS late last year!! Now, there is a killer coin worth BIG BUCKS

Wondercoin

Tonelover · January 30, 2003 8:20AM

When was the last time a coin minted for circulation crossed from an NGC 68 holder to a PCGS 68 holder. I'd really like to know. Someone? Anyone? Hello......?

Last year we crossed an 1859-S NGC MS-68 Seated Half Dollar to PCGS 68. That was nice!

Bear · January 30, 2003 8:24AM

Tonelover - Your achievement ranks up there with a true miracle. You have earned

our congratulations for having an excellent eye and having the Lords of Grading smile on you.

Android · January 30, 2003 8:35AM

Mitch,

Congratulations on the '39S! I was one of the skeptics of that coin getting an upgrade. Did you send it in slabbed as a regrade or did you send it in raw?

Andy

gmarguli · January 30, 2003 8:39AM

OK, there are examples of NGC MS68s crossing to PCGS as MS68. I can point to people who won the lottery.

What percentage of MS68s crosses? 1%? ½%? ¼%?

wondercoin · January 30, 2003 8:40AM

"Mitch, Congratulations on the '39S! I was one of the skeptics of that coin getting an upgrade. Did you send it in slabbed as a regrade or did you send it in raw? Andy"

Andy: Hi. Thanks. The coin was submitted raw as the PCGS-MS66 holder was immaterial to the task at hand.

Wondercoin

More high dollar NGC MS68 Washington action.

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