Will you deal with those who buy/sell NTC and PCI?
braddick
Posts: 23,978 ✭✭✭✭✭
I know how we generally feel about ACG. There are many here that feel if a Dealer or even cusual seller deals with Accugrade coins, that is one Dealer to avoid- even at the risk of passing on PCGS or NGC coins in his inventory you may want.
Now, what about NTC? There is beginning to be a consensus that NTC and possibly even PCI are grading on about the same level/standard.
I stopped buying any Accugrade coins about two years ago and haven't sold any since then either. I had a few remaining in my collection that I have since sent to PCGS at a "cross-at-any-grade".
I recently sold a few NTC coins on eBay. The auctions had honest descriptions and the scans were accurate. The coins went for what NTC coins sell for- which isn't much, trust me (in fact, one MS67RED 1959 Lincoln closed at one dollar!).
I received a pretty nasty email at the conclusion of these auctions reminding me NTC coins were a plague on the hobby and I shouldn't be bartering in them.
It got me to thinking. Should we? ACG coins are "banned", now about NTC? PCI?
Should all coins, other than ANACS; PCGS; NGC and ICG along with SEGS be shunned?
I'm curious what you think.
Now, what about NTC? There is beginning to be a consensus that NTC and possibly even PCI are grading on about the same level/standard.
I stopped buying any Accugrade coins about two years ago and haven't sold any since then either. I had a few remaining in my collection that I have since sent to PCGS at a "cross-at-any-grade".
I recently sold a few NTC coins on eBay. The auctions had honest descriptions and the scans were accurate. The coins went for what NTC coins sell for- which isn't much, trust me (in fact, one MS67RED 1959 Lincoln closed at one dollar!).
I received a pretty nasty email at the conclusion of these auctions reminding me NTC coins were a plague on the hobby and I shouldn't be bartering in them.
It got me to thinking. Should we? ACG coins are "banned", now about NTC? PCI?
Should all coins, other than ANACS; PCGS; NGC and ICG along with SEGS be shunned?
I'm curious what you think.
peacockcoins
0
Comments
My personal choice is not to have anything to do with NTC or PCI Gold. I don't consider either of them to be reputable firms, and I would never sell coins slabbed by them (and of course the same for ACG). I think there are some good, accurately graded coins in some older PCI Green slabs and I don't have a problem there.
Bottom line - as a matter of personal ethics, no ACG, NTC, or PCI Gold - but that is based strictly on my personal feeling, I'm not trying to tell others what to do. Also, I have no problem attempting to "educate" others about my perception of ACG, NTC, and PCI Gold.
2. If I see a coin I like in an ACG, NTC, PCI slab, I will buy the coin for as little as I can, realizing that dealers that sell these slabs KNOW how overgraded they are. I show no mercy
3. As soon as I can, I liberate the coin from its unhealthy environment.
4. I send it in to a reputable grading service, and if my "buy the coin and not the slab" motto works, wait for a pleasant surprise at the other end.
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Last weekend at the Delaware show, I saw one NTC slab in the case of a dealer I buy from frequently. I looked at it and said "shame on you." He laughed and said it actually was graded correctly.
Jeremy
I would have to think If I found a coin that met my requirements why not? If I bought what I felt was a 1954 S cent in MS67RD in a NTC holder I would crack it out and send it to PCGS. I would never peddle their junk.
Now having said that I have never bought their stuff, never having found something that I thought I agreed with. I pretty much stay with PCGS, NGC and ANACS.
Rich
1881-S on eBay
I'm in this hobby for the long haul. I've made my share of errors and mess-ups, but have learned and walked away a better collector. Now, in this day and age, if selling or buying NTC is frowned upon then that would be something I should, with an open mind, explore. Thus, this post!
-One other area that has caught my attention: Do you believe, even though you buy an ACG or NTC coin only to liberate it from its holder, you are a part of the problem?
In other words, if there was no end user- the collector eventually there is no Accurgrade . -With no one buying these services slabbed coins, how could they stay in business? But, if their coins are purchased, even to eventually end up in PCGS or NGC holders, is the initial support enough to sustain them?
peacockcoins
If it ain't PCGS, NGC and sometimes ANACS stay the h*ll away. If you are a newbie you have been warned!
If a "desirable" coin is in a non PCGS, NGC or ANAC slab or it's raw you HAVE TO ASK WHY WHY WHY! THERE ARE NO FREE LUNCHES IN THIS HOBBY. LEARN FROM OTHERS MISTAKES.
I believe the folks who submit to them provide the revenue stream. As for them, the best punishment is to purchase the coins at a very deep discount.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Now, a dealer that makes a market in ACG/PCI Gold and NTC coins, well that is preying on the unwary in my book. I would avoid that kind of dealer.
I am going to give you a vastly over-stated analogy. First, think about the dealers who sell coins encapsulated by grading companies that you do not like, perhaps because you think there is a high probability that the coins are overgraded. OK, now I know that you are a police oficer. Suppose there is a pawn shop in your town that you suspect with high probability of fencing stolen goods. By fencing these goods, the pawn shop harms the peole who are robbed and never get their goods back. Would you frequent the pawn shop and try to buy only honestly acquired goods? Or would you figure that even by purchasing honestly acquired goods you are helping the pawnbroker stay in business so that he or she oculd fence more stolen goods and harm more people who were robbed? Returning to your coin question, would you try to buy honestly graded coins from a coin dealer that sell coins you think are generally overgraded?
Now, I think this analogy to dealers who sell coins encapsulated by companies you do not like it is over-stated. Even if you have a valid reason for not liking a particular company's grading policy, these coin dealers might well disagree and think the grading is right on the money. And to them it might be. So, I don't think there is necessarily a correct answer to your question. But I think this analogy does explain why some collectors won't buy coins from dealers who specialize in selling encapsulated coins from a company the collector does not like.
Mark
al h.
if i look at a coin in a holder i ask the price i either buy or pass and if the seller wants to let me make an offer i will telling him what i think the coin is worth based on the coin not what the holder says the coin is!
i mean a coin is a coin is a coin i will not let some piece of plastic around a coin bother me i can always crack it if i and the seller come to an agreeable price!
sincerely michael
even a counterfeit whizzed 1916 d dime is still worth something also a genuine 1916 d dime that has been damaged and harshly cleaned in one of these off holders the seller may not like the offer i am willing to pay to adopt this coin but hey! that plastic around the coin does not make the coin bad!
only the persons who slab such coins and put a market grade on such coins and then others try to sell
them by what the grade on the holder says/.........................lol
i mean there are some okie coins in off holders that have value if you get them at a value you want to pay you break them out and the whole process begins over again..............lol
let the buyer beware
blame the player and the game not the coin!!...................lol
<< <i>Braddick- Who was the jerk that sent you the nasty e-mail? >>
how about tell pat who the punk dcamfranklin is then i'm sure he would divuldge who the email came from
it's a simple matter of goose/gander/punk situation here
<< <i>Will you deal with those who buy/sell NTC and PCI? >>
of course, if they are selling coins. rather a silly question, isn't it?
K S
I recently watched a 1939-S Washington in a NTC ms67 slab. I thought the coin looked nice and would probably go 65 or maybe 66 at PCGS. Others were apparently taken in by the 67 grade because it soon exceeded 65/66 money and I did not even bid. That does not keep me from looking for these kinds of bargins, though.
coins, on the other hand, can be quite attractive.
K S
byzantine server problems.
sorry...
The dealer and I talked about the coin industry (he doesn't care for ACG, either) and the coin looked like a steal (he priced it at what ACG gets). But I don't trust myself enough to not get hosed by clever artificial frosting or reproofing which may/probably get through ACG. So I passed on it.
<< <i>Interesting thread. I have a family heirloom in a PCI slab, because NGC rejected it for being cleaned. We can positively trace ownership of this coin to about 1950, and very likely some thirty or so years earlier than that. I wanted it to be protected, NGC said 'no way', so PCI it was. Nice slab, incidentally -- seems durable and well-constructed. >>
Fred, they may look nice, but PCI slabs are not airtight. I have a 1997 SAE in one that was pure white when I bought it three years ago, and is now almost completely toned gold. You may want to consider ANACS, which will grade problem coins, and their slabs are airtight.
Cameron Kiefer
I wouldn't have any problem buying a coin in a NTC holder, or even an ACG holder. If I'm passing by a table and a coin has the kind of eye appeal I'm looking for, then I will certainly take the time to assess the proper grade. If the coin is properly priced, then I'm a buyer. I would want to crack it out and put it in a more reputable holder.
I'm not going to avoid a seller just because they offer significant numbers of NTC or ACG coins. I'm not going to readily purchase their coins like I would some more reputable dealers. I will give their coins a more stringent review. However, their other offerings aren't going to keep me from buying any particular coin, or coins. A good buy is a good buy.
I really disagree with your remarks about changing the hobby. I don't want want to be some elitist in the hobby. There are varying degrees of collectors. Some with massive budgets, some with high dollar budgets, some with middle of the road budgets and then there are some great people with a STRONG love of coins, yet a VERY limited budget. There IS a place for the NTC holder!! Yes, those coins will probably not appreciate and perhaps the coins are graded by a less stringent grading practice, but they ARE appreciated by the low end collectors. Who the heck are we to "force" another holder upon them?? If you don't believe me, just look at Centsles. He has 27,667 Positive feedbacks, with 62 neutrals and 106 negatives. TWENTY SEVEN THOUSAND,plus Positive feedbacks! Think about it! Only 106 negatives??? Those people are buying those coins for cheap money and they are HAPPY! It is NOT the place of anyone here on this Forum to dictate to those collectors. Just my opinion.
<< <i>Braddick-
I wouldn't have any problem buying a coin in a NTC holder, or even an ACG holder. If I'm passing by a table and a coin has the kind of eye appeal I'm looking for, then I will certainly take the time to assess the proper grade. If the coin is properly priced, then I'm a buyer. I would want to crack it out and put it in a more reputable holder.
I'm not going to avoid a seller just because they offer significant numbers of NTC or ACG coins. I'm not going to readily purchase their coins like I would some more reputable dealers. I will give their coins a more stringent review. However, their other offerings aren't going to keep me from buying any particular coin, or coins. A good buy is a good buy.
I really disagree with your remarks about changing the hobby. I don't want want to be some elitist in the hobby. There are varying degrees of collectors. Some with massive budgets, some with high dollar budgets, some with middle of the road budgets and then there are some great people with a STRONG love of coins, yet a VERY limited budget. There IS a place for the NTC holder!! Yes, those coins will probably not appreciate and perhaps the coins are graded by a less stringent grading practice, but they ARE appreciated by the low end collectors. Who the heck are we to "force" another holder upon them?? If you don't believe me, just look at Centsles. He has 27,667 Positive feedbacks, with 62 neutrals and 106 negatives. TWENTY SEVEN THOUSAND,plus Positive feedbacks! Think about it! Only 106 negatives??? Those people are buying those coins for cheap money and they are HAPPY! It is NOT the place of anyone here on this Forum to dictate to those collectors. Just my opinion.
oh,oh, i see you are changing your mind now about the sharp eye detecting a deal even if it is is an ntc holder. in fact i see YOU have purchased a few yoursefl. now WHY would you do that ?
Gary
fairtraderz eBay auctions
1) I wouldn't lump SEGS in with NTC & PCI.
2) A seller of the occasional one of these coins is better than a seller that does questionable things like <cough> key word spam <cough>.
COLORS!!! COLORS!!! COLORS!!!