A question of morals

LanLord

Wondering what you would do?

You go to a coin store, looking through Proof sets. You notice that he has a number of 1964 Proof sets marked AH and $40, while the other 1964s are $10(price really is not the issue here). Since he has AH marked sets, you assume the dealer knows how to detect AH Kennedys.

You notice that one unmarked 1964 Proof set is actually AH. Do you buy it and consider it a cherrypick or do you mention the oversight and just get on with life?

Just wondering what you would do in this situation.

airplanenut

If he didn't know what to look for, then his mistake, your gain.

If he knew what to look for, then his mistake, your gain.

kieferscoins

Buy it without telling.

Cameron Kiefer

KlectorKid

ROFL, I would say if he knew then I would take it. If he didnt why is he a dealer?

Ogden

LanLord, I wound'nt feel bad about buying it and not telling him or her it was an AH. I bought one for $7.00 which wasn't shown as AH. I sent it in to PCGS for grading and it came back MS-64 AH. I probably paid near what a 64 was worth. I have seen 68's not selling on ebay for a BIN price of $80.00. I might feel differently if it was a substantial difference, expecially if I had a good relationship with the dealer. I have also bought coins from dealers that they graded higher than PCGS actually graded the coin. Sometimes things have a way of evening out. I don't think it always the buyers responsibility to educate the dealer.

Ogden

Russ

Buy it.

Russ, NCNE

Outhaul

AVAST THERE YE SCURVY DAWG! BELAY YER SOBBIN' AND PREPARE TA GIVE UP THE TRAYSURE!!!!!!

Oops...er...I mean...uh...I'd cherrypick him

stujoe

I think Cherrypicking varieties from dealers is so accepted in this hobby that I wouldn't have a problem with anyone just buying it and not saying a word.

braddick

A close scenerio would be finding any product mismarked as to price. I think I'd tell him. Feeling good about the whole sitsuation is worth the $30.00 difference.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dealer didn't then heavily discount the set and you've built a relationship this will last far further then the money saved on that one AH Kennedy deal.

jbsteven

the way I look at it is if the dealer takes the time to look for those things then he will price it that way. If he does not care or know what to look for then he loses by his lack of knowledge. I guarantee if he took the time to find a variety then it will be priced as such.

Fairlaneman

Some Dealers I would tell them the Difference if I knew myself. Other Dealers I would buy the thing and laugh all the way home.

Ken

ldhair

One other way to look at this.

Over the years I pointed out lots of oversights to a local dealer. He always thanked me and sometimes offered to sell it to me anyway. The few bucks I could have made just didn't mean that much to me. My actions built a trust between us that paid me many times over. He would offer me new items before anyone else got to see them. This is a good spot to be in with a dealer. Several times he ask me to come on the other side of the counter and help with other customers. Later he would thank me by offering me something really special at a really low price.

The deal in front of you may not always be the best deal.

Just one other view on morals.

IrishMike

I would tell them and I bet they will still sell it to you for the price they have on it. Last month I attended a local show and this guy who sells coins as a hobby had 5 silver 99 proof sets for sale at $85 a piece. I informed his daughter that they were selling for $140, she grabbed her sheet and it said $85. She thanked me and this month I noticed she had them stickered for $165. Only 3 left.

supercoin

I'd tell him in this case, since he obviously is trying to price them differently and you're taking unfair advantage of what may be nothing more than a labelling mistake.

What if, for example, the reason it was mislabelled was due to a previous customer looking through the sets, and the cello packs got switched from one envelope to the other?

airplanenut

Braddick,

And he could be a nasty guy who thanks you for reminding him that he shuold mark it $40... you lose your revenge on a bad dealer.

Jeremy

PS- What's cherrypicking if you can't cherrypick?

gmarguli

I'd buy it. No second thoughts. Do you think the dealer paid $40 for those sets or did he buy them at the non-AH set price?

greghansen

Buy it. At least nobody has suggested they would put a non AH sticker on one of the AH sets and try to buy it that way!

nwcs

If I was looking through and found it, I'd buy it and not say anything. If we were discussing it and I liked the dealer, then I'd probably tell them. I chalk it in the column of "win some." I certainly have many strikes in the "lose some" category!

Neil

fcloud

There is no right or wrong answer--follow your heart.
Some people would feel guilty for buying it and not telling the dealer.
Some people would consider it a cherry picking.
Some dealers would not care if you bought it without telling them.
Some dealers would act like you stole the coin (even though they did not buy it as an AH).
Some dealers would actually tell you it was a cherry pick and give it to you at the price marked anyway.
Some dealers like when customers cherry pick, and others want you to do their job and tell them, so you can pay them extra for not doing their job.

nwcs

I remembered what my local coin shop guy says often, if you cherry pick him he's glad. He wants you to get a good deal. He doesn't have the time or desire to get into the details too much. Besides, he has so high a markup that I don't think it matters sometimes! But he has told me to tell him if I ever found something good. Last Saturday when I was there, a guy bought an indian head cent for $40 and told him that it was a RPD worth around $100 and you could see the owner wished he had the money but said again he was happy for him because it would get the guy back in again to buy something.

Neil

braddick

<< <i>Braddick, And he could be a nasty guy who thanks you for reminding him that he shuold mark it $40... you lose your revenge on a bad dealer. Jeremy PS- What's cherrypicking if you can't cherrypick? >>


Jeremy- I don't consider this Cherrypicking. I consider it the Dealer making a mistake and misplacing the set in the wrong pile.
No big deal, but there is a distinction.

Also, the actions or attitudes of others should play no role in the actions and attitude of yours.

NumisEd

The deal in front of you may not always be the best deal.

Wonderful post ldhair. Words of wisdom with a dash of eloquence......

coinkat

Good question that can have acouple different answers. If you visit this dealer often and already have a great relationship, I would tell him. If you like the guy you can tell him because he just may go alittle out of his way to help you find something you are looking for in the future. If this guy is not helpful or just not fun to deal with then I would buy it and move on...

RGL

Cherrypicking is an expected and accepted part of our hobby when dealing with collectors and dealers. That is part of what makes it exciting, that I can employ some of my arcane knowledge on a particular series and pick up a nice variety for the price of a common. Others have every opportunity to carefully inspect their coins or pick up a reference book prior to selling. Their loss, my gain. Now, that does not apply to the little old lady selling her late husband's collection; that is a different manner in which she deserves to be told...

ClarkOfKent

Snatch it up.

LucyBop

CLARK! Is that your ear???? I oughta give you a earful!

ClarkOfKent

Lucy..... you ok?

Topdollarpaid

HI, it's me again Randy from Lake Elsinore coins in Cal.

I say buy the set if you want it.
It is ok you will not be doing anything wrong.

However if you see a 1954 set and it is marked as 1964 then you should call the dealers attention to his mistake, that would be the honorable thing to do.

Cherry picking is part of the game and the more you know the better chance you have of finding a hidden treasure.

Knowledge is power..

Now please tell me what a AH Kennedy is ???????
Thanks Randy Lake Elsinore Coins

LucyBop

that sneaky Clark, he can be very 'EARratating...........

Russ

<< <i>Now please tell me what a AH Kennedy is ??????? >>



At the risk of betraying my fellow cherry-pickers.

Russ, NCNE

DesertLizard

I cherrypicked Heritage from their inventory a few months ago. With trying! I ended up with a rare variety which I ID'ed in the Breen book.

If they are in the business, then it is their job.

How many dealers troll through auctions, inventories, etc. looking for varieties and undergrades? Same game.

It's impossible to know every variety in every series and the values.

Topdollarpaid

Thanks very much!

ldhair

Going back to the original post by LanLord.

It seems the dealer made a mistake. At what point do you tell him.. $30-$100-$1000.
It was obvious the dealer wanted a better price for the AH sets.

I have to agree with Braddick, Supercoin and others, this is not cherrypicking.

Knowledge is powerful but, this is not the time to take advantage of that knowledge.

Picking a variety the dealer had no idea was there or had no knowledge about is what
I think cherrypicking is all about.

This really is a question of each persons morals. There is probably not a 100% right or wrong answer but,
I don't wish to think I took advantage of a simple mistake. I want to win with real knowledge.

DHeath

I'm in the tell them group, but I've come to believe each of us has their own moral barometer. The one I've come to trust is what I would instruct my kids to do in the same situation. It works every time. What would they think of me if they saw my actions? Would I have to justify myself?

dwood

I know myself too well

As much as I'd try not to, I'd end up telling him.

If it were my set, I'd want someone to tell me, at which point I'd probably let them have it at the lower price anyway.

Gilbert

I would mention it and ask for it at the "price of a 1964 proof set." If he still wanted to charge $40, then I would look for one elsewhere, UNLESS the AH Half was extremely eyecatching and a cut above the norm. Personally, I'm just not too fond of opportunists. Before Russ, a '64 proof set was a '64 proof set, no matter what half was in it.

Twowood

I see nothing immoral about buying a coin at the stated price especially if the owner writes it up and rings up the sale.
I also think that your concern shows character on your part.I'd do business with you any time! Twowood

CharlieB

<< <i>Cherrypicking is an expected and accepted part of our hobby when dealing with collectors and dealers.... >>


I agree.

But buying a mismarked $500 coin for $50, though it may be tempting
is still legal theft, don't do it. Your honesty in informing
the dealer will pay off dearly in the long run. A good word about
you will manage to get around to other dealers in time.

NumisEd

I cherrypicked Heritage from their inventory a few months ago.

That's like shooting birds in a bird cage........not very challenging

dorkkarl

the title of the thread is "question of morals". there is no question. when someone marks a price on something, it must be honored. if a store mismarks their high-def. tv's at the price of transistor radios, i'll gladly cherry-pick every 1 & have a real nice yard sale.

most all of the funding for my collecting comes from cherrypicking. it is a most honorable stance to take. it is fundamental to the idea of capitalism.

K S

matteproof

Hi LanLord. The heart and soul of numismatics is an "honest and balanced scale." In my life, I always remember with great fondness the KINDNESS and integrity that others have showed me. I consider it a gift and great reward to have opportunities to do the same. In the end, integrity is EVERYTHING.

matteproof

BASEagle

cherry-picking is what we collectors LIVE for. Not only would I not point out the variety, I would still try to beat him down a few bucks.

Mike

JLW

"The deal in front of you may not always be the best deal." Idhair

"I would tell them and I bet they will still sell it to you for the price they have on it." IrishMike

"I'd tell him in this case, since he obviously is trying to price them differently and you're taking unfair advantage of what may be nothing more than a labelling mistake." supercoin

"Also, the actions or attitudes of others should play no role in the actions and attitude of yours." braddick

"I'm in the tell them group, but I've come to believe each of us has their own moral barometer. The one I've come to trust is what I would instruct my kids to do in the same situation. It works every time." DHeath

"In my life, I always remember with great fondness the KINDNESS and integrity that others have showed me. I consider it a gift and great reward to have opportunities to do the same. In the end, integrity is EVERYTHING." matteproof
Amen to the above statements.
Joe

ARCO

Coin collecting is a hobby. The dealer is offering and selling his products at a markup to what he paid. He has an offer and you can buy it or leave it.

Coins have thousands of varieties and nuances that offer challenge and excitement to collectors, who can ever quantify what one is worth or what the demand is. Buy the set, enjoy it and realize that is what coin collecting is all about...finding coins you enjoy

Tyler

Russ

<< <i>The dealer is offering and selling his products at a markup to what he paid. >>



In this example, a HUGE markup. I think sheet on the '64 set is $8.50 bid and $9.50 ask. This dealer has AH sets marked up to $40? Does anybody here really think he gave the seller of these sets an equivalent bid price? If he can get $40 a set for them, more power to him. That's what the free market is all about. But, he wouldn't be getting it from me unless, as Gilbert said, these were some very nice halves in the sets.

Russ, NCNE

mbbiker

I would tell him because he has other AH sets that are marked up. If he didn't have any AH sets at different prices than i would not. If it's a mistake he should be told but if he dosn't know what to look for its his lose he is in the coin busniess he should take the time to cherrypick his coins.