Not all "brown" coppers are really brown: images
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
As many of you are aware, the major grading services categorize copper coins by color - either "RD" for red, "RB" for red/brown or "BN" for brown. But, copper can turn many different shades and color combinations and not all of them fit neatly into one of those three color designations.
If a copper coin has no original mint red remaining and no faded red/brown, it is usually designated brown "BN". However, some copper turns blue and/or green and/or purple, among many other colors. So, you will occasionally see copper with beautiful colors, which have nothing to do with brown, designated "BN".
Below, you will find images of two such coins (which, by the way, are not for sale).
If a copper coin has no original mint red remaining and no faded red/brown, it is usually designated brown "BN". However, some copper turns blue and/or green and/or purple, among many other colors. So, you will occasionally see copper with beautiful colors, which have nothing to do with brown, designated "BN".
Below, you will find images of two such coins (which, by the way, are not for sale).
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Comments
Clankeye
Brian.
Oh...wait a minute...They're probably WAY out of my league anyway.
BUT I WANT THEM! ME WANT! ME WANT!
Cheers,
Bob
I took a chance and purchased a raw 1940 Proof Lincoln on Ebay.I just received it in the mail.On the Obv all around the edge is blue/green toning.The center is Red.The Rev has minor blue/green toning around the edge.I admittedly am not a toning expert.I must admit bias because it is a Lincoln Proof.I need help.I can't grade a toned Lincoln Proof.I can't post pics either.The pic in the Ebay auction was so dark,you couldn't tell anything.Should I just send it into PCGS and roll the dice ?
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Bob - the coins were listed at $10 each (ok, maybe not) - I'm sure you wouldn't have wanted them anyway. So, please don't feel like you're being punished.
Don - it's hard to tell from your description but it sounds like the coin you bought is not "RD" and therefore, probably not worth submitting.
I don't have an answer to your question about why Proof Indian cents are apt to tone more wildly than business strikes. However, I will try to find out and if I am able to, will let you know what I learn.
Didn't the matte proofs come in tissue paper? I wonder how those turn of the century proof were shipped from the mint...
<< <i>Mike, I don't have an answer to your question about why Proof Indian cents are apt to tone more wildly than business strikes. However, I will try to find out and if I am able to, will let you know what I learn. >>
Mark, it's only a shot, but I'd venture it is due to the difference in storage.
Proof Indians (and, to a lesser extent- early proof Lincolns) where stored by collectors in tissue paper and placed in small paper envelopes.
I know some of the later Wheat cents where also housed this way by dealers, and those coins too sometimes take on this amazing, beautiful array of colors.
peacockcoins
I'm pretty sure that you are correct. But, I was not certain so thought it best not to guess. You are a braver man than I am.
I'm also fortunate enought to have 4 or 5 commercial strikes and two proofs that have beautiful irridescent toning "mixed" with the brown - the coins are of course, slabbed as brown, but in natural sunlight, the irridescence knocks you over. I have no idea what the origin of the toning is, but even the brown areas are brillant.
Some other reference material about IH proofs can be found on Eagle Eye Rare Coins' (Rick Snow) articles page. An excerpt:
"Beautiful toned proofs from the Prosky hoard. Coincidentally or not, Starting in 1878, it seems that one of the major coin dealers on the era, David Prosky, started buying up all the remaining specimens of the proof cents, 3 cent pieces, and 5 cent pieces leftover at the end of the year. This hoard of proofs was accumulated throughout the rest of Indian Cent series and numbered in the hundreds of coins per year. This group of Indian Cent proofs was still intact when the entire hoard was bought by Frederick C.C. Boyd, I believe around 1910. Later these were mostly all sold to Howard MacIntosh of Tatham Stamp & Coin Co. By this time the coins had mostly acquired beautiful iridescent purple toning and were advertised as such in their monthly ads in The Numismatist throughout the 1940's and 1950's. Today these purple toned beauties are very tough to find. Many have had their toning muted due to early rejection by PCGS and NGC. (They know better now and will most likely grade any original iridescent toned proof, if found) Although iridescent toned bronze coins invariably get graded as "Brown", they certainly don't trade anywhere near the "BN" bid. We accept iridescent toned coins labeled Brown as Red-Browns and price them accordingly.
Another hoard of Indian cents was owned by coin dealer Wayte Raymond (these may have been a subset of Proskey's coins). Raymond kept these coins at his summer home in Moutauk, NY - on Long Island by the salt air of the Atlantic Ocean! Needless to say these did not survive very well, and many spotted examples undoubtedly come from this source."
Russ, NCNE
Mint State Coins should NOT be these Colors !!!!
Stewart
<< <i>Mint State Coins should NOT be these Colors !!!! >>
The operative word is SHOULD - maybe they SHOULD not be this color - but sometimes - once in a great while - they CAN be.
Frank
<< <i>Mint State Coins should NOT be these Colors !!!! >>
Blah, blah blah.