As a moderns collector, I've decided that classics collectors have a point.
Russ
Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
They frequently make that point by being butts about it, but when you think about it, there's some validity to their assertions. Look at this coin:
There were a grand total of 721,000 minted (that's not MILLIONS, but thousands). Maybe a third have survived today and PCGS has graded a total of 240 in mint state in any grade. Contrast that with a typical modern that has mintages in the millions and sometimes billions and may have 10,000 examples graded.
I paid $350 for that coin. To put that in perspective, for what the buyer paid for that 1963 PR70DCAM (yeah, right) Lincoln, one could purchase 111 of these, or nearly half of the entire PCGS graded population.
Russ, NCNE
There were a grand total of 721,000 minted (that's not MILLIONS, but thousands). Maybe a third have survived today and PCGS has graded a total of 240 in mint state in any grade. Contrast that with a typical modern that has mintages in the millions and sometimes billions and may have 10,000 examples graded.
I paid $350 for that coin. To put that in perspective, for what the buyer paid for that 1963 PR70DCAM (yeah, right) Lincoln, one could purchase 111 of these, or nearly half of the entire PCGS graded population.
Russ, NCNE
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Now start deducting how many are around with original surfaces and you will really appreciate the classics. That might take a while longer for you to appreciate but you will in time. I hope.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
Classic's or Modern's are both collectable but when you look at Mintage and Survival rate the light shines brightly I believe on Classic Coins. Of course 50 years from now who knows what the Modern Pops will be. Suprises wait ? Too bad I will not be around to see.
Ken
AnClankeyeamous 6 of 2
There are clearly far more Morgans graded by PCGS than all Post 1970 coins combined. Even more $20 Saints than all moderns combined. Scratch your head on that!
Frank
Luster has left the building.
And its head is small and on backwards.
I love this 2c piece and I also love your post on the array of PROOF DCAM modern commem halves.
Great minds think alike. Why limit yourself? My position on the classics/moderns debate is simple.
I am a coin fanatic and love both!!. I will never understand why collectors limit themselves.
My U.S collecting begins in 1793 and through the present.
Brian.
Frank
Scarce but new
peacockcoins
<< <i>if i was playing guess the grade i'd say 65 r & b [am i close] >>
It's an MS63 RB.
Russ, NCNE
I like modern DCAM proofs, but I had an epiphany some months back about PR70's and retired my modern sets.
A PR70DCAM is a created rarity based on the opinions of PCGS. I prefer a rarity based on reality.
(That and the fact the Modern Type Proof set required 4 Kennedy's and 4 Ike's - with Bi-Centnenial and Silver/Clad varieties).
And when I was selling them off, I was thinking my God, somebody just paid me $450 for a 1996 Jefferson 5c PR70DCAM. This is a nickle minted 7 years ago and looks pretty much like any other one! Too bad I didn't realize it when I was shelling out hundreds for them as well. Today, I am 100% free of PR70DC's.
I wonder what Russ will be posting about Kennedys in 6 months from now?
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<< <i>I wonder what Russ will be posting about Kennedys in 6 months from now? >>
Same thing I've always posted. I like the series in proof, and love the 1964 thru 1970 coins. But, I will never buy a PR70DCAM as long as the mutiples are at these levels. The only way I will ever own one is if I win the grading lotto and make one myself.
Russ, NCNE
I think Pushkin said it best once: Coins are cool
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1997 892 only released as part of a 4 coin set
1998 560 singles and 750 as part of a 4 coin set
2001 500 singles and 1,000 as part of a 4 coin set
All can be had for less than $200.00 each.
09/07/2006
That's darkside. They don't count.
Russ, NCNE
they're great. If you enjoy them (and most everyone does) then you should collect
them in whatever way catches your fancy.
But... rare classics do not come cheap. In almost no case is it possible to get a rare
old US coin for very little money. This does not apply so much to scarce classics, just
the rare ones. There are lots of grossly underappreciated modern coins. While this
may be changing rapidly these markets and their collectors will require years to tell
the wheat from the chaffe.
As has been pointed out, very few circulating moderns have been graded, and many
varieties remain unattributed or undiscovered.
<< <i>Lesson learned: There is room for both Classics and Contemporaries in a well rounded coin collection. I think Pushkin said it best once: Coins are cool >>
I gotta agree, I don't think I have ever met a coin I didn't like.
I'll take em old, new and anywhere in between.
edited cuz I can't spell
adrian
Modern coins offer different issues. Collectors and people in general seem to like them and are willing to spend $$ to get them in the right grades. The problem is trying to make an educated guess how many of these issues remain that will grade in the MS67 to MS70 range. And even once that calculation (guess) is complete, how many collectors/investors are willing to support those prices levels if MS64 to MS66 coins can be bought for significantly less? These are tough questions and there are no right answers today. There is no question that so many modern issues have been ignored for decades and often the coin market moves in cycles exaggerating values (remember how many high grade classics took a beating in the bear market that started in eithher 1989 or 90?) . Trying to figure out the beginning and ending points of the cycle is the hard part.
After all of this, my point is simple... buy and collect the coins that you like because there is no guarantee where the coin market will go in the future. Finally, always be willing to look at other coins that you may not collect now objectively because the day may come when your interests change.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Wow! Now that's classic! Like Russ I just picked up my first 2cent piece. Okay, so its a XF45 but for $30.00 how could I go wrong with a coin minted during the Civil War.
I can't wait to slowly put this set together. I strongly suggest that all newbies try this. It really opens your eyes to all coins and can still be cheap enough to complete in XF-AU grades in some coins and VF in others.
You really learn ways to spot problem coins, learn grading skills as well as numismatic history! Plus it gets you out of the Registry Set rat-race!
Michael
<< <i>Okay, so its a XF45 but for $30.00 how could I go wrong with a coin minted during the Civil War. >>
Michael,
I have quite a few in that grade. That's another cool thing about these. We newbs can buy decent ones for small enough money that if we screw up it isn't too costly.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Lesson learned: There is room for both Classics and Contemporaries in a well rounded coin collection. I think Pushkin said it best once: Coins are cool >>
I gotta agree, I don't think I have ever met a coin I didn't like.
I'll take em old, new and anywhere in between.
edited cuz I can't spell >>
.........never met a coin you didnt like?...i have sba...gezzzzz they are ugly
09/07/2006
Hmmm...
The No Drapery Seated Quarter had a total mintage of 957,146, and PCGS has currently graded only 102 in MS and 237 in ALL grades. Out of approximately 140 different design Types, it ranks #31 in terms of mintage, and #17 if you eliminate the gold Types. I purchased this example for the same price as your average 1992-2002 Silver Kennedy PR-70DC.
Bargains exist, you just have to know where to look.
<< <i>
The No Drapery Seated Quarter had a total mintage of 957,146, and PCGS has currently graded only 102 in MS and 237 in ALL grades. Out of approximately 140 different design Types, it ranks #31 in terms of mintage, and #17 if you eliminate the gold Types. I purchased this example for the same price as your average 1992-2002 Silver Kennedy PR-70DC.
Bargains exist, you just have to know where to look. >>
I really meant "rare" in the classic sense of the term. There are certainly highly desirable
and probably underpriced classics which can be acquired for relatively little cost. But the
rare classics are prohibitively expensive for most people. This applies not only to the date
rarities but also to the condition rarities in classics.
Obviously these coins are valuable because they are rare and there is much demand for
them. This often doesn't apply to the modern rarities.
Pretty as a picture. I know you have to feel good about the
purchase of that beautiful 19th century coin to add to your
moderns. Who says oil and water don't mix?
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